Mangheni Pride

[Mapokser]

(07-22-2024, 10:24 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote:

(07-22-2024, 08:57 PM)Mapokser Wrote: but successful coalitions generally only do that when their cubs reach adulthood or at least independence.

Not true exactly.

Majingas and Bboys are one of most successul coalitions in Kruger (for what we know) and they did basically the same.

Majingas abandoned Fourways, Tsalalas and Spartas, while Bboys abandoned Nkuhumas, Torchwoods and Styxs, all before their offspring reached adulthood and independence (no offspring from those named prides where 2 yrs old before that happened).

And theres countless other examples, most recently in Sabi Sand where Ndhzengas, who abandoned Styxs when their offspring was not even 1 yrs old.

You are talking about coalitions who cant expand (because of strenght, numbers, strong neighbours etc.) , so they stay with their pride and offspring for longer time, but they are not doing that because they want to rise their offspring to adulthood.

N.Avocas would abandon NKs aswell in 2020/21 if they could completly defeat 2 Bboys,but they couldnt, so they stayed with NK, they didnt stayed to secure their offspring adulthood.

Male lions and coalitions dont work like that.

This is not accurate. Majingis sired their Tsalala cubs in 2011 and only abandoned Londolozi in 2014 after ousting the Selatis. They did abandon 4ways and Sparta but where exactly was their biggest legacy again? Not 1 or 2 cubs in their sidekick prides, but their biggest impact? The pride they spent the most time with: Mangheni, which resulted in 11 cubs that reached adulthood and 10 more that reached subadulthood ( and would have survived if their fathers had not died of old age ), they controlled the Mangheni pride for some 5,5 years. They also got at least IIRC 4 cubs from the Tsalala pride to adulthood, and it was a small pride of just 2 females.

Same for the Bboys, what was their biggest legacy again? 12 cubs in the Kambula pride, the pride they spent the most time with by far, controlling them from 2018 to 2021 when they got ousted.

And what about Matimbas? Even more successful than these 2, they controlled prides like Mbiri and Nkuhuma for many many years and sired 2 regeneration of cubs in some of their prides.

You talk about the Ndhzengas like if they had not been luck, if the Gijimas weren't extra tolerant towards subadults, the Ndhzengas would have no offspring alive at all outside the Kambula/Ntsevu prides, most other males in their place would have killed the 2 Southern subadults and would have hunted down the Styx subs, the pride would meet a similar fate to the Othawa and Talamati after Tumbelas/S8 died. Hell the Styx lost more than half their cubs despite the Gijimas not hunting them down.

It's a simple fact that any lion researcher will tell you: cubs are not generally successfully raised without a constant protection from strong males.

We see that all the time. Why aren't any of S8's offspring alive? Why only 2 Othawas miraculously survived? According to you they should have been fine without fathers at 1,5yo since even 1yo cubs should be fine being abandoned by their fathers.

You also say that coalitions don't work like that, but then why Matimbas sired 2 generations of Mbiris? Why Majingilane sired 2 generations of Manghenis and 2 generations of Othawas? Both coalitions had the strength to do anything they want, but still they spent many years with single prides and sired more than 1 generation. Reply