Modern Weights and Measurements of Jaguars

[Pckts]

(03-09-2021, 12:47 AM)Balam Wrote:

(03-09-2021, 12:39 AM)Pckts Wrote:

(03-09-2021, 12:01 AM)Balam Wrote:

(03-08-2021, 11:43 PM)Pckts Wrote:

(03-08-2021, 11:24 PM)Balam Wrote: @Pckts I disagree that Lopez was bigger than Joker, imo Joker is easily the largest jaguar captured by a scientific organization and in recent records.

When he was captured last year he increased rather dramatically in total body length to 250 cm, knowing that the tail rarely ever grows past a certain age, he was not too far away from measuring 2 meters of body length, perhaps 185-190 during his second capture. This growth in length would also mean that his already outstanding chest girth measurement of 126 cm would have expanded even more, I wouldn't be surprised if he measured close to 130 cm in chest circumference or more. 

His weight was captured in the scale at 140 kg without him being fully lifted up, this means that it had a lot of velocity and he must have been much heavier than that. In the video of Lopez the biologists can be seen struggling to lift him up the ground but they managed to do it either way, with Joker it was not possible. I believe Joker is one of the rare 150+ kg jaguars.

To compare his measurements, here are some body measurements for African lions across different areas:

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

The lion on the second graph had a weight of 177.5 kg, but his chest girth of 128 cm would be very similar to that of Joker, assuming Joker did not reach the 130 cm benchmark during his second capture, in which case he could've been even wider. The female at 145 kg too had a similar chest girth at 125 cm. The maximum value of chest girth for male lions of Kalahari was 126 cm as well, Joker in fact had larger measurements than all the lionesses from that sample and some males too, with the largest average of Rhodesian lions being closer to his measurements during the first capture.

Of course lions being taller some of the mass they pack will be spread across a larger frame, but Joker nonetheless compares and at times surpasses adult lions in areas where jaguar morphology is accentuated.

Another interesting point is that if you compare the total body length of Joker at 250 cm with the total body length of the lion and lioness from the second graph, and then subtract the tail length, Joker would still compare quite nicely in body length and may even be longer than the lioness slightly.

We don't know the methods of measurements for the lions but lions are usually measured following the curves of the body as can be exemplified by the Hobatere lions.

Joker is low to the ground but massive in all other areas, he has dimensions akin to a lion/tiger, and we know for a fact he weighed over 140 kg during his last capture. To me he is the clear record holder at the moment.

Were you able to get an actual body length on Joker for his second capture?

In regards to the measurements I've posted
Joker and Almeida's cat are realistically the same length and Almeida's Jaguar is actually shorter than Joker at the shoulder and with similar Neck Girths. It's the chest girth that seperates Joker but we must remember that Joker's chest girth isn't actually exact as Edu never flipped him over and wrapped the tape all the way around, he simply multiplied one side by 2 and we don't know if that makes a difference in total size or not. 

My guess is Joker is in the 130-140kg range unless his new capture produced some sizes that exceed what I've posted.
Can you post again where Edu or whoever captured joker specified his weight and body measurements?

Lopez is a 142kg Jaguar or more with no real bait taken during his capture, whether he's empty or not is unknown but he certainly wasn't full bellied.
We already know Adriano wasn't the biggest Jaguar in the North as Paulo told me years ago, Adriano was normal size but bulky so assuming at least Edno and Balam are larger than he with a few others as well, it's safe to say those guys are going to be 140kg jaguars as well. But again we'd need to know if we're comparing Adriano at empty or full as well since Almeida's Jaguar is specifically mentioned as empty so he could of also been 130kg+ with food content.

Oncafari published Joker's new body length measurement not so long ago:

*This image is copyright of its original author

As you can see he increased quite a lot from his previous captured in total length, it makes sense for him to have also expanded in other areas of his body such as chest girth. Remember that jaguars usually attain more mass in a horizontal, barrel-like manner, as exemplified by Pita male who had short limbs but also a very broad chest that also compared to that of lions/tigers. I'm not aware of the chest girth of lions and tigers being taken by lifting them up from the ground, due to their heavyweight it is likely that the multiplication by 2 standard would also be applied to them, that's why I'm very comfortable comparing Joker to them.

As for Edno and Balam, honestly, I'm dying to know their measurements as weights too, it will be such waste from a research point of view to not capture them because they could potentially expand our understanding of the size capabilities of jaguars, assuming they are larger than Lopez and record breakers too, which I strongly suspect they could be. I made this rough comparative image between Balam and Joker, and to me, they seem to overlap in size nicely:

*This image is copyright of its original author

I'd like to know who took those measurements and what they were exactly.
Do you know who said the 140kg weight was from an unsuccessful weighing attempt? 

I'll ask Edu but he hasn't been as accessible lately.

This is what Edu told me regarding his weight: "I wasn't there, but he was captured this year at Caiman and the team couldn't weigh him properly because he was too heavy and there were few people to lift him entirely from the ground..."

Basically they could not lift him up entirely, but he alluded that the value of 140 kg was captured while not completely lifted up, that's why I believe he is bigger than Lopez because to yield such a massive weight without being fully up or and for enough time to capture the data entirely he must have to have weighed quite a bit more than that, and since they now use digital scales the values are as accurate as they can possibly be. Joker is on his own league in terms of size.

If you want more info from Edu I'd advise you to comment under his picture of IG, he's more accessible there.

But we can't assume that he weighed over 140kg from Edu's statement nor do we know how heavy the scale actually went up to.
We also don't know his body dimensions but Edu would be able to get them from the program so I'll see if he gets back to me. He usually is good about it but who knows. Reply