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Modern weights and measurements on wild tigers
Modern weights and measurements on wild tigers
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Modern weights and measurements on wild tigers
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 (02-24-2019, 07:31 PM)Rishi Wrote:(10-31-2018, 10:18 AM)Suhail Wrote: Disappointing event as the Maharashtra tiger that travelled 500kms to MP, strayed out of Satpura Tiger Reserve again & was captured for the second time from the exact same spot near Betul town, after 6hour operation. The Satpura Reserve is spread over 2,100 sqkm, 71% of which of which is core area. There are around 40 tigers in STR. Officials concluded this tiger may love to travel, but he’s a lazy hunter who went back for cattle despite the area having more than sufficient wild prey. This time the 2.5-year-old male weighting 178kg is may be shifted to Van Vihar Safari Park for life, or to Kanha's training enclosure for a longer time. Conflicting reports... Source: https://www.bhaskar.com/mp/hoshangabad/news/satpura-tiger-reserve-team-with-the-help-of-four-elephants-rescues-tigers-tranquilizes-u-01496779.html  (02-12-2019, 05:09 AM)GuateGojira Wrote:(01-14-2019, 10:28 AM)Kingtheropod Wrote: Body Mass of Bengal tiger in Modern Records: Revised (2019) Guys, there's something peculiar about the work of Smith et al. that was quoted by Raúl Valvert (https://www.scribd.com/document/55287778...from_embed). Valvert stated that the heaviest wild male Bengal tigers in his work were from Chitwan National Park in Nepal, with average weights of 221 kg (487 pounds) on adjusted bellies, and that these were figures for 7 male tigers from the work of Smith et al. and Sunquist: *This image is copyright of its original author *This image is copyright of its original author Smith et al. (https://www.jstor.org/stable/3808080?ori...b_contents) said that between 1973 and 1980, 154 attempts to capture tigers had been made, with tigers being seen on 109 attempts. They gave a table on the tigers, including their age groups and numbers: 7 cubs, 4 subadult females, 19 adult females (altogether 23 subadult and adult females), 12 subadult males, and 7 adult males (altogether 19 subadult and adult males), and altogether, these are 49 tigers in the table, but then they said that a total of 26 tigers (15 males and 11 females) were immobilized, with 15 of them having been recaptured 1–4 times, and then that the tigers were immobilized and successfully located on 49 occasions. How is this contradiction possible? 26 tigers being recorded on 49 occasions doesn't mean 49 tigers being recorded altogether (which is what the table says). *This image is copyright of its original author *This image is copyright of its original author
The table in the original document of 1983 says "7 males", but Waveriders suggested that probably that is the number of captures, not the specimens. I asked this to Dr Sunquist and Dr Smith, but for the moment I have no answer.
Even then, we actually know 4 males captures (M102 - 200 kg, M105 - 272+ kg, M126 - 272+ kg & "Bange Bhale" - 204 kg) , which only two are included in the table of the document of 1983 (M102 and M105). So if we belive in the estimation of Waveriders, probably only 3-4 males were captured in Nepal and adding the other two reported after the document was published, the number of males could be about 5-6 specimens. Also, as far I remember tigerluver mentioned that other two males were reported to weight 272+ kg that, apparently are not included in the table, making the sample between 7-8 males. At the end, if they are actually "7 captures" and not "7 males", and if we included the other two males captured latter, we got an average figure of 227 kg "empty belly", using the adjusted weights in this form: M102 - 184 kg, M105 - 261 kg, M126 - 260 kg & "Bange Bhale" - 204 kg. The last one was not adjusted because it was not baited, according with Mishra (2010).  (06-25-2019, 04:23 AM)GuateGojira Wrote: The table in the original document of 1983 says "7 males", but Waveriders suggested that probably that is the number of captures, not the specimens. I asked this to Dr Sunquist and Dr Smith, but for the moment I have no answer.@GuateGojira My assumption was that these 26 tigers weighed, and the other 49 tigers mentioned in the other table are referring to different years. The 26 tigers represent one study period, and the other 49 tigers was a different research occasion when they got scales greater then 227 kg. The 26 tigers they refer to in the paper is the tigers they weighed WHEN they only had a max 227 kg scale. The 49 tigers mentioned is when they got the 272 kg scales. Keep note, that the subadult tigers mentioned in Sunquist et al 1981 and Smith et al 1983 may have become adults on their second immobilization, thus they would be included as adults on their second weighing. I would like to mention another important thing Guate Eric Dinerstein in his book below mentions a tiger of 560 lbs from Baghmara forest. I think this is another male! https://books.google.ca/books?id=qYGKNKp...&q&f=false (06-26-2019, 11:31 AM)Kingtheropod Wrote: @GuateGojira You have a good point in mentioning that male of 560 lb+ of Baghmara. My concern is when that tiger was darted, it says that Dr Dinerstein was present, which suggest that probably was not included in the paper of the other weights of 1980. We know that other tigers were darted after the publication of that document. Now, which tiger was this “Baghmara” male? Was actually M126 in the last capture? Was a completely different male? I will like to investigate a little more about this. Based in the map in page 48 of Dr McDougal, Baghmara was in the north-central part of the park, close to Lame Tal and near the southern part of the Narayani River.
I will investigate a little more about this male tiger.
Regarding the tigers captured in Nepal, here is my conclution:
https://wildfact.com/forum/topic-bengal-...ta?page=29 Hope this helps.
Police find two tigers in Hanoi woman's fridge
Police found two frozen tigers in a fridge and two soup kettles filled with animal bones in an outdoor kitchen in Hanoi, Vietnamese newspapers reported on Wednesday.  *This image is copyright of its original author The 40-year-old woman confessed to police she hired three experts to cook tiger bones to make traditional medicines that she sold for about $800 per 100 grams. Police arrested the woman and the three cooks. The woman stored the tigers in a fridge inside her apartment and cooked outside the building in an area where people regularly gathered to eat porridge for breakfast. Although Vietnam is party to a treaty to protect endangered species, animals and animal parts are still smuggled from neighbouring countries and around Vietnam for use as medicine. “She has been doing this publicly for a long time,” Tienphong (Vanguard) newspaper quoted a neighbour as saying. “The smell from the kitchen polluted the neighbourhood.” The two adult Indochinese tigers, weighing 250 kg and estimated to cost about $20,000 (9,900 pounds) each, could have been bought from Myanmar or Laos, newspaper reports quoted officials as saying. “The tigers could have been bought in Laos and transported back to Vietnam by ambulances or hidden in coffins,” forest ranger Vuong Tri Hoa was quoted as saying by Nong Nghiep Vietnam (Agriculture Vietnam) newspaper. Police also found four bear paws, ivory and various other wild animal parts in the woman’s apartment on Tuesday, the reports said... https://uk.reuters.com/article/oukoe-uk-...8620070905
Check this: https://wildfact.com/forum/topic-who-is-...ur?page=29
Read post number 434, about the measurements of the tigers captured in Chitwan NP, Nepal. Greetings.
Size of the tiger - August 2019:
I decided to publish my new tables about the tigers measured and weighed by scientists in this moment. The reason is that after that bad experience that I suffer when I lost all my data the last year, I don't want to pass for the same thing. So, everytime that I will have new information, I will try to put it here, like a database and at the same time, like a backup. So here are the tables that includes all the tigers measured and weighed by scientists in the field. It includes only those published in scientific documents, appart from 5 males and 4 females (Bengal ones) that were reported in the news but that were corroborated by email, plus one that was measured and weighed in cammera. This sample do not exaust all the especimens captured, but only those published. First, the tigers from the Indian subcontinent:  *This image is copyright of its original author The weights of the Nepalese tigers are already adjusted for any stomach content or pregnancy. Now, the overall list of all the other populations.  *This image is copyright of its original author Enjoy the information, if you have questions you are free to ask. Until next time. Greetings to all. 
09-10-2019, 04:50 AM
( This post was last modified: 09-13-2019, 06:04 PM by GuateGojira
Edit Reason: added table formating
)
On the tigers of Sariska:
I have saw in the last days that this "table" is still on the web:  *This image is copyright of its original author To be honest, that was not even a table, but a paragraph that I wrote in AVA, as far I remember. Someone took an screeshot and that is all. The point is that the information is the table is very outdated, like some names that are incorrect and the highly disputed weight of 170 kg for the male ST-4. I will not recoment to use it anymore. I will like to make a new summary of the information that I have:
The sources are just for the weights and in some cases the date of captures. The remarks and the popular names are from other sources. Why the differences? Well, first of all the names of the tigress ST-2, as I found that the name "Babli" was in fact applied to these tigress and not her sister ST-3. Second, the weigh of "170 kg" for male ST-4. There is only one source for that weight, but also there is other source (I lost it, by the way) where it says "over 200 kg". Now some posters that actually saw that tiger say that is not posible that an adult male of about 6 years old may weight such a low figure, and I am agree with that. Here are some pictures that I found in this forum (the first one) and on the web (the second and third ones):  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author Certainly was not a long tiger, and it looks about 180-200 kg, taking in count that the second picture is from 2018 when he was at least 14 years old. The third one is when he died in december of 2018 from the wounds of a fight, some others says that for negligence of the officers as the tiger did not eat in the days when he was in captivity. So I discarted the weight of 170 kg as unreliable. Compare it with the tiger "Dakre" or T-102 from Chitwan NP, Nepal, that weighed 200 kg:  *This image is copyright of its original author Now, the complain that the weight of 170 kg is too high for a tigress of just over 3 years old is also valid, as that weight is the equivalent of 272 kg for a male tiger, is up to the extream for a mature prime adult. So, this make me to question the reliability of these figures, even if are confirmed by the news papers like "The Hindu". I still remember the case of an Amur tiger that was labeled as "250 kg" in a web publication, latter I contacted the reporter and he told me that was the correct figure, however digging more I contacted the veterinarian that worked with the tiger and he told me that it was of just 185 kg!!! Sadly, at diference of the scientists of Russia and Thailand, those from India are not very willing to share the information of the size/weight of its captured animals, and although some figures seems correct, those from the specimens ST-2 and ST-4 are disputed. I still used the weight of ST-2 in my last table, but I think that I will reconsider it, specially for the age issue. Other cases like this are the weights of 185 kg for "Gabbar" and 85 kg for "Choti Tara" from Tadoba-Andari, which were confirmed by email to some poster here, but in the case of the female, it looks obviously incorrect. The tigress "Chuchchi" or T-115 from Chitwan NP, Nepal, weighed 98 kg when she died at 15.5 years old in an emaciated state and was killed by a male tiger of over 3 years old, so if the figure of 85 kg is real for "Choti Tara", this was when she was probably still a subadult, not an adult. Compare with this subadult tigress named "Cinderella" which weighed 94 kg at about 2 years old:  *This image is copyright of its original author She was still a cub when she weighed 94 kg, more than the allegated weight of "85 kg" for "Choti Tara". I think that we need to be very carefull with the weights in the news reports and like "Dr Panthera" said, many of those figures or those shared in Facebook are not entirely confirmed or some details are missed. Like a conclution, for the moment, the weights of ST-1, ST-3 and ST-5 seems reliable and match with they ages, the one of ST-2 is disputed and that of ST-4 is definitelly not reliable. Maybe someone here can contact people that was involved in those captures and try to clarify the issue. I tried, but for the moment I don't have any answer. Greetings to all.
T-91 reached Mukandra; Had to hit 2 dots to make him unconscious, scare reached in 4 hours, buzzing roar in reserve 2 hours after opening the cage
 *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author The T-91 landed at a quarter of an hour after opening the cage in Dara Enclosure. Tiger came out of Ranthambore from Bundi jungles from 19 November City Reporter | quota After a long wait of 5 years, the tiger roared in Hadoti's Mukandra Hills Tiger Reserve. Tuesday brought a big gift for Hadoti. After several days of efforts, the forest department has shifted from Ranthambore since November 19 to the tiger T-91, which is roaming in Ramgarh Century of Bundi, in Mukandra. T-91 tiger was tranquilized at 6:12 am in Bandra Pol forest area of Ramgarh Century. He had to hit two dots to make him unconscious. After the health checkup, Tiger was sent to Mukandra at 8:15 am under the supervision of senior officials. Blood sample of tiger, heart beep, weight, length taken. He was sent from there on the green signal of Dr. Rajiv Garg. The route from Ramgarh Century to Mukandra was completely sealed by the police. He was accompanied by a convoy of police escort vehicles and forest department officers all the time. The convoy traveled 165 km from Ramgarh Century to Mukandra. The tiger entered the Dara Ranger block at Mukandra at 12:08 pm. He was then transported to a 28-hectare covered enclosure built 6 kilometers inside the Ghati Mata Mandir hill. The nephew of Broken Tale is: Tiger's convoy reached village Dara from Motipura, Khatkhar, Bundi, Talera, Ballop, Hanging Bridge, Kathun, Kanwas. After opening the cage in the enclosure, Tiger flew down from the canter at around 2:15 pm. T-91 is the nephew of Broken Tale. Its father is the son of Bahadur and Broken Tail Fish. It is worth noting that Broken Tale came to Selzer in the year 2003. The same year he died after hitting the train at Dara. (Also read quota front page) Confirmed at night, tiger will be tranquilized by morning Shifting to CMO monitoring NTCA temporary ban disrupted shifting. However, immediate shifting was necessary given the tiger's safety. In the monitoring of the CMO, the forest department took action to tranquilize the tiger for the last one week. The CMO was also closely monitored for carrying the tiger from Ramgarh to Mukandra. Both people and forest benefit from tiger Congratulations to the people of Hadauti region on successful trans location in Mukandra Reserve of Tiger T-91. Both the people and the forest will benefit from the arrival of the tiger. The people of Hadoti are also responsible for the protection and conservation of this ecosystem. -Sundhara Raje, Chief Minister On Monday night, T-91 came into open space while walking in Bandra Pol forest area. Then it was confirmed that the tiger would be tranquilized by morning. At 6:12 am, a team tranquilized him. He ran in the bushes for 100 meters. After some time he was brought out of the stretcher into the open. Health checkup done. DCF Dr. T Mohanraj said the weight of the tiger was 280 kg. Inserted radio collar from Germany. In view of the temperature and heat of the body, ice was placed in the cage by drizzling. - YK Sahu, Field Director, Ranthambore Tiger Reserve Bhaskar Inside Story After 3 hours I came to my senses and left for Darra Quota | The task of transporting the Tiger T-91 from Ramgarh to Dara was nothing less than a "surgical strike". Just read the Inside Story of Shifting in Bhaskar, by the life of Rajiv Garg, the wild life doctor of Ranthambore Reserve, who tranquilized the tiger. 5:21 pm Mara Dot: This is the tiger of the royal mood. I know its nature very well. It can only be caught in the dark, it is not visible in the light. The first dot hit Bandra Pol at 5:21 am. Departure from Ramgarh at 8:15 am: When he regained consciousness at 8:15 he left for Dara. They left with the whole squad. The speed of the canter remained very low till it came out of the forest and came to the main road, then after coming on the highway, it caught pace and kept going. There was a cavalcade of vehicles back and forth. First step placed in Dara's enclosure at 2:15 After traveling 165 km, he made a canter at the bottom of the hill at Ghati Mata Temple in Dara at 12:08 am. After seeing the surrounding situation, we all boarded the trains and opened the cage door in the canter. But Tiger never landed from the cage. We had no choice but to sit and watch. At around 2:15, as soon as Tiger took the first step on the land of Dara, there was no place for our happiness. 6:12 pm hit the second dot: the place where it was, there was a drain just behind it. The problem could have occurred if it had moved towards the drain after the dot was applied. At 6:12 am, the second dot was unconscious when it appeared again.  *This image is copyright of its original author https://translate.google.ca/translate?hl...tml&anno=2 https://www.bhaskar.com/news/RAJ-KOT-OMC...2-NOR.html
I don't believe what report says 280 kg.He is not even close to that,maybe 180 kg is realistic
(10-01-2019, 12:47 PM)Kingtheropod Wrote: T-91 reached Mukandra; Had to hit 2 dots to make him unconscious, scare reached in 4 hours, buzzing roar in reserve 2 hours after opening the cage I think that @Hello is right, 280 kg is about 617.3 pounds, which is massive for a male tiger, whereas 180 kg is about 396.8 pounds, and that tiger looks like an average one, in the same way that this Southern lion, supposedly the 'biggest' in Masai Mara, doesn't look particularly big from some angles. Here is M-105 or the "Sauraha male", a large Nepalese tiger from Chitwan National Park that was weighed at about 260 kg (573.2 kbs) with an empty belly: https://www.scribd.com/document/55287778...Tiger-2015  *This image is copyright of its original author
(10-01-2019, 12:56 PM)Hello Wrote: I don't believe what report says 280 kg.He is not even close to that,maybe 180 kg is realistic Very much likely... or, he may look like that. I talked to Dharmendra Khandal who was the team that tranquilised him. He said he's the same size of Ustaad (reportedly 240kg at that age) & Sitara. Hard to tell though, but maybe that's why they too underestimated his weight & had to shoot a second dart. Khandal is the guy in black tee & gree shorts; |
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