Dholes (Cuon alpinus)

[smedz]

(02-04-2019, 04:38 AM)Shadow Wrote: I was looking a little bit about sources so far in this thread what comes to reputation of dholes.

I found these names: K. Anderson, J. Corbett, W. Rice, Burton, R.C. Morris, Robert Sterndale, R.I. Pocock, William Blanford, W. Connell, Kailash Sankhala, then also David Attenborough and Sunquist&Sunquist. One interesting book to find and read would be Whistling Hunters from M. Fox.

Then there are some articles in media, which mention about fights with tigers and wild dogs and injured tigers. Many times people have used word stray dogs, when others than dholes, but of course these articles are somewhat unclear. Then 2-3 paintings from past show situations where dholes and tigers are in fight or hostile to each others. Also some videos show, that dholes and tigers aren´t exactly best friends.

If I missed someone, feel free to tell. I just looked briefly names from postings to have some idea, that how many different people can be found.

You forgot K. Ullas Karanth and Kate Jenks from the Minnesota Zoo who studies Dholes in Thailand, before you ask, she says the outcome is likely death by tiger, which I got from that article about saving Dholes. I personally wouldn't trust some of those people, honestly I'm not sure on Attenborough's thoughts, in two documentaries, it would seem he believes the tales, but in another documentary, he says nothing could threaten the tiger before man came with guns. Reply

[Shadow]

(02-04-2019, 05:12 AM)smedz Wrote:

(02-04-2019, 04:38 AM)Shadow Wrote: I was looking a little bit about sources so far in this thread what comes to reputation of dholes.

I found these names: K. Anderson, J. Corbett, W. Rice, Burton, R.C. Morris, Robert Sterndale, R.I. Pocock, William Blanford, W. Connell, Kailash Sankhala, then also David Attenborough and Sunquist&Sunquist. One interesting book to find and read would be Whistling Hunters from M. Fox.

Then there are some articles in media, which mention about fights with tigers and wild dogs and injured tigers. Many times people have used word stray dogs, when others than dholes, but of course these articles are somewhat unclear. Then 2-3 paintings from past show situations where dholes and tigers are in fight or hostile to each others. Also some videos show, that dholes and tigers aren´t exactly best friends.

If I missed someone, feel free to tell. I just looked briefly names from postings to have some idea, that how many different people can be found.

You forgot K. Ullas Karanth and Kate Jenks from the Minnesota Zoo who studies Dholes in Thailand, before you ask, she says the outcome is likely death by tiger, which I got from that article about saving Dholes. I personally wouldn't trust some of those people, honestly I'm not sure on Attenborough's thoughts, in two documentaries, it would seem he believes the tales, but in another documentary, he says nothing could threaten the tiger before man came with guns.

Yes, Jenks is good one and what she say. Pity that she has done her studies in Thailand, where dhole packs seem to be smaller. Still she has a lot of good information and she is a "must" for people interested about dholes. Reply

[smedz]

(02-04-2019, 05:35 AM)Shadow Wrote:

(02-04-2019, 05:12 AM)smedz Wrote:

(02-04-2019, 04:38 AM)Shadow Wrote: I was looking a little bit about sources so far in this thread what comes to reputation of dholes.

I found these names: K. Anderson, J. Corbett, W. Rice, Burton, R.C. Morris, Robert Sterndale, R.I. Pocock, William Blanford, W. Connell, Kailash Sankhala, then also David Attenborough and Sunquist&Sunquist. One interesting book to find and read would be Whistling Hunters from M. Fox.

Then there are some articles in media, which mention about fights with tigers and wild dogs and injured tigers. Many times people have used word stray dogs, when others than dholes, but of course these articles are somewhat unclear. Then 2-3 paintings from past show situations where dholes and tigers are in fight or hostile to each others. Also some videos show, that dholes and tigers aren´t exactly best friends.

If I missed someone, feel free to tell. I just looked briefly names from postings to have some idea, that how many different people can be found.

You forgot K. Ullas Karanth and Kate Jenks from the Minnesota Zoo who studies Dholes in Thailand, before you ask, she says the outcome is likely death by tiger, which I got from that article about saving Dholes. I personally wouldn't trust some of those people, honestly I'm not sure on Attenborough's thoughts, in two documentaries, it would seem he believes the tales, but in another documentary, he says nothing could threaten the tiger before man came with guns.

Yes, Jenks is good one and what she say. Pity that she has done her studies in Thailand, where dhole packs seem to be smaller. Still she has a lot of good information and she is a "must" for people interested about dholes.

Agreed, while the studies point to tigers being dominant, she and her fellow Dhole researchers should do a study on Dhole and tiger interactions in India if she really wants to figure it out, because that's where the biggest packs are and have been, India seems to have more open parts than the other places, which I believe is why India has the biggest packs, because that's where they can use the full strength of the pack. Reply

[Shadow]

One possible source might be A. A. Dunbar Brander. There is mentioned his observation in the book: Wild Cats of the World, author Charles Albert Walter Guggisberg from 1975. There seems to be a case, where Dunbar Brander saw evidence about a tiger killed by dholes and he also saw one case where dholes got tiger annoyed. If someone has that book it would be interesting to see the text. If I have understood right, Dunbar Brander has written also his own books. Reply

[Shadow]

One quite recent study. Quite interesting one concerning dholes, leopards and tigers. Also seems to be ongoing and in future maybe more information.

Quote: "In addition to the behavioural adaptations that we studied, antagonistic interactions among these species have been reported; tigers and leopards kill and prey on dholes [6,18], dholes, leopards and tigers steal kills from each other, and leopards can escape from tigers and dholes by climbing trees but are sometimes killed [18,20]. Such rare antagonistic interactions studied using radio-telemetry may reveal complex interplay of behaviour and ecology among these predators."

Here is source an whole study:

https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/full/10.1098/rspb.2016.1860#d3e1785

Spatio-temporal interactions facilitate large carnivore sympatry across a resource gradient
K. Ullas Karanth, Arjun Srivathsa, Divya Vasudev, Mahi Puri, Ravishankar Parameshwaran, and N. Samba Kumar
Published:08 February 2017 Reply

[Shadow]

One source for dhole reputation would be Thomas Williamson. Painting of Samuel Howitt (A Tiger hunted by Indian Wild Dogs, 1807) is based on Oriental Field Sports by Williamson. I don´t recall was here or somewhere else already more information about Williamson. Reply

[Shadow]

Footage of dholes killing a chital in Pench National Park, India, 2015. First there are some still shots and then video starts.

Reply

[Shadow]

Dhole and elephant interaction, here is quote from description of this video:

"This has to rank as one of the most special sightings I’ve ever experienced ... an incredible Dhole and Elephant interaction. The elephants are clearly not impressed by the Dholes presence and constantly chased them trumpeting and even kicking! The Dholes are very comfortable in their ability to avoid the elephant and when they eventually moved on they made a successful kill of a Spotted Deer stag."

Reply

[smedz]

(02-07-2019, 04:45 AM)Shadow Wrote: Dhole and elephant interaction, here is quote from description of this video:

"This has to rank as one of the most special sightings I’ve ever experienced ... an incredible Dhole and Elephant interaction. The elephants are clearly not impressed by the Dholes presence and constantly chased them trumpeting and even kicking! The Dholes are very comfortable in their ability to avoid the elephant and when they eventually moved on they made a successful kill of a Spotted Deer stag."

See people who believe in what Rudyard Kipling said, not every animal is scared of Dholes people. Use your common sense. Reply

[Shadow]

(02-07-2019, 05:16 AM)smedz Wrote:

(02-07-2019, 04:45 AM)Shadow Wrote: Dhole and elephant interaction, here is quote from description of this video:

"This has to rank as one of the most special sightings I’ve ever experienced ... an incredible Dhole and Elephant interaction. The elephants are clearly not impressed by the Dholes presence and constantly chased them trumpeting and even kicking! The Dholes are very comfortable in their ability to avoid the elephant and when they eventually moved on they made a successful kill of a Spotted Deer stag."

See people who believe in what Rudyard Kipling said, not every animal is scared of Dholes people. Use your common sense.

I shared a video, I didn´t say anything else there. Reply

[Shadow]

One rare footage about dhole and elephant interaction here too.

Reply

[smedz]

(02-07-2019, 06:01 AM)Shadow Wrote:

(02-07-2019, 05:59 AM)smedz Wrote:

(02-07-2019, 05:26 AM)Shadow Wrote:

(02-07-2019, 05:16 AM)smedz Wrote:

(02-07-2019, 04:45 AM)Shadow Wrote: Dhole and elephant interaction, here is quote from description of this video:

"This has to rank as one of the most special sightings I’ve ever experienced ... an incredible Dhole and Elephant interaction. The elephants are clearly not impressed by the Dholes presence and constantly chased them trumpeting and even kicking! The Dholes are very comfortable in their ability to avoid the elephant and when they eventually moved on they made a successful kill of a Spotted Deer stag."

See people who believe in what Rudyard Kipling said, not every animal is scared of Dholes people. Use your common sense.

I shared a video, I didn´t say anything else there. So to what I should use common sense????

I wasn't talking to you, just to any moron who thinks Rudyard Kipling's evil story is factual.

Then you need that "use your common sense" to youtube for that person, who uploaded that video, I think. Don´t you? But I don´t get it now, that where did you get Rudyard Kipling connected to that elephant video?

I didn't say anything about the person who uploaded the video, I got the connection to Kipling since he wrote a chapter in the Second Jungle Book I believe, and he basically portrayed Dholes as ruthless, bloodthirsty, and that they kill everything around them. Since people tend to believe portrayals in media, I can guarantee you that there are some people who actually believe Dholes are like that. Like how movies like " Jaws" helped give sharks a bad reputation, and made people scared to get in the water. Reply

[Shadow]

(02-07-2019, 06:24 AM)smedz Wrote:

(02-07-2019, 06:01 AM)Shadow Wrote:

(02-07-2019, 05:59 AM)smedz Wrote:

(02-07-2019, 05:26 AM)Shadow Wrote:

(02-07-2019, 05:16 AM)smedz Wrote:

(02-07-2019, 04:45 AM)Shadow Wrote: Dhole and elephant interaction, here is quote from description of this video:

"This has to rank as one of the most special sightings I’ve ever experienced ... an incredible Dhole and Elephant interaction. The elephants are clearly not impressed by the Dholes presence and constantly chased them trumpeting and even kicking! The Dholes are very comfortable in their ability to avoid the elephant and when they eventually moved on they made a successful kill of a Spotted Deer stag."

See people who believe in what Rudyard Kipling said, not every animal is scared of Dholes people. Use your common sense.

I shared a video, I didn´t say anything else there. So to what I should use common sense????

I wasn't talking to you, just to any moron who thinks Rudyard Kipling's evil story is factual.

Then you need that "use your common sense" to youtube for that person, who uploaded that video, I think. Don´t you? But I don´t get it now, that where did you get Rudyard Kipling connected to that elephant video?

I didn't say anything about the person who uploaded the video, I got the connection to Kipling since he wrote a chapter in the Second Jungle Book I believe, and he basically portrayed Dholes as ruthless, bloodthirsty, and that they kill everything around them. Since people tend to believe portrayals in media, I can guarantee you that there are some people who actually believe Dholes are like that. Like how movies like " Jaws" helped give sharks a bad reputation, and made people scared to get in the water.

So you comment about Kipling just out of nowhere, when quoting a posting about dhole and elephant interaction, which has nothing to do with Kipling. Ok..... if you have issues with Kipling, there should be better places to do handle those than making random comments to postings, which have nothing to do with posting you quote. Reply

[Shadow]

Here dhole leopard interaction. It is interesting to hear sounds what animals are making here in this kind of confrontation. Approximately at 1:30 leopard comes down from first tree and try to escape first time. At 3:25 is another kind of funny situation, which causes leopard to climb higher. Then at about 4:55 leopards comes down second time and starts to escape, there is quite odd sound at 5:05 too when dholes start to go after leopard :)

Reply

[Wolverine]

(02-07-2019, 05:16 AM)smedz Wrote: See people who believe in what Rudyard Kipling said, not every animal is scared of Dholes people. Use your common sense.

Who is "moron" - David Attenborough, one of the most erudite naturalists in the world?!?...
Next time when scientific team of BBC-Nature make their documentaries they will need first to get the opinion of the blogger "shmedz"... Reply