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Notch Coalition Male Lineage
Notch Coalition Male Lineage
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Notch Coalition Male Lineage
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I agree with you guys but all i am stating is that their words are not to be taken seriously when concerned with anatomy, even the most experienced photographers are not qualified enough to determine the size of an animal by just looking at it. Give or take, like Guate mentioned. an opinion is an opinion and it's still not better than any of ours. Once again, I admire photographers for the work they do but admiration doesn't mean I take every word with a grain of salt.
 (12-03-2014, 05:27 PM)'Spalea' Wrote: These lions are beautiful ! I don't imagine how a wild beast can live without a testicle (lost during a fight ? How such a wild beast can lost a testicle ?). The pain must be constant and despite of this, Caesar continues to be a lion... Yes, I know among the animals the courage, the bravery are completely some inconscious character traits but nevertheless I admire that. I am, we are all in front of our computer screens, and of course in a case of a medical operation/treatment we resort to anesthesia and so on... I figured "grimace" would be the logical candidate for a one nut wonder.  (12-03-2014, 09:51 PM)'tigerluver' Wrote: I never mentioned size and weight, I stated better platform for comparison, different aspects. One can see A is relatively bigger than B, but any estimation of quantitative dimensions is futile. You're right on the exaggeration, and I already embraced that problem by adding that an opinion is not a final word. My point was that we're not any better apt at guaging size from 2D pictures than someone who's been there in 3D space, and I'll say it again so no one confuses my thoughts, photographers still are not the final word as opinions are opinions, but just a better word than us. Remember, like I always say, you'll rarely find me on one end of the spectrum. (12-03-2014, 11:14 PM)'sanjay' Wrote: @GuateGojira , I guess my and tigerluver's points mentioned above about photographer is not for each and every photographer. But there are few photographer who are more than "JUST PHOTOGRAPHER" and its my personnel experience. They are well informed about animals and work as volunteer with very good NGO's and other organization, for example, http://www.sheldrickwildlifetrust.org/ one of the best wildlife trust.@tigerluver: You do mentioned size, that is why I replied to your post. Check your text. Besides, even when they see the animal in the place, there are still not the best ones to judge dimensions. I have already explained myself here. By they way, I am surprised that you have not mentioned anything about the new 3D photographic analysis, that is been developed in South Africa, to estimate the size and weight of an animal, without capturing it. @sanjay: You are right, not all photographers are "amateurs" or just "guys with cameras", that is true. However, I still bet for Scientists and people with field work AND profesional education. I think that to see an animal in the wild or not, is not so relevant. Many people here knows much more about tigers than many photographers in they entire carer, this is because we are aware of scientific investigations based in long therm studies, and not single glimpses of they lives. Finally, I respect photographers and I always learn a little from they reports, but they are surely no authorities and they claims should be treated like the old reports in the literature of the JBNHS, which are useful, but qualitative in they nature. Am I explaining my self here? 
I think, we would fall in an unnecessary debate and will spoil this thread again.
Views expressed here by me, tigerluver, guate and rofl is not a fact but more a personnel thought. You both miss my point about photographers that spend their life in taking photos of particular animal for life, and working as volunteer with NGOs. I still think they are better than us. So point is scientific research and data is above all, agree, but after that, person who are more closer to animal than us more qualified than us. Reason- Scientist - Do it with tool and accuracy. photographer - Do it by seeing animal in front of them, in 3D and can compare them in all possible angle, live. We - See photographers Photo and judge them, some time with our own flavor added. Well, I am not here to put my last word, But I think its correct.
Don't worry, I agree in this last issue. I just expressed my opinion, twice, and that will be enough, no debate here.
Just one last thing, I have never been a friend of "judging size by a picture" thing. Everyone can check my posts in AVA if want to verified it. Continue with the lion issue. [img]images/smilies/wink.gif[/img]  (12-04-2014, 06:43 AM)'chaos' Wrote:(12-03-2014, 05:27 PM)'Spalea' Wrote: These lions are beautiful ! I don't imagine how a wild beast can live without a testicle (lost during a fight ? How such a wild beast can lost a testicle ?). The pain must be constant and despite of this, Caesar continues to be a lion... Yes, I know among the animals the courage, the bravery are completely some inconscious character traits but nevertheless I admire that. I am, we are all in front of our computer screens, and of course in a case of a medical operation/treatment we resort to anesthesia and so on... Sorry I don't know the Grimace's story in detail (or the other lions). I only reacted when Sanjay told Caesar lost a testicle...
Lets continue the thread with these awesome 6 Lion pics and story. I am searching there info on fb, for now I get some images of Lion Grimace . He look very impressive to me.
Grimace with breakfast, 26 -September 2014  *This image is copyright of its original author Grimace after breakfast, 26-September 2014  *This image is copyright of its original author Grimace with lioness after breakfast, 26-September 2014  *This image is copyright of its original author Lioness with grandkids of Notch, 26-September 2014  *This image is copyright of its original author All credit to Arthur Reiter. 
Ceaser does look larger in the image of them side by side. But would have to see them standing up to know for sure.
In regards to Photographers giving size estimates, they are much more qualified than us. Especially if they see them side by side. Its irresponsible not to give them their due credit. I will always trust a eye witness opinons compared to somebody who has seen pictures. You must always take everything with a grain of salt but lets be honest. Every single image we use to form an opinion are provided by the people who some of us are discrediting. All I will say about that. 
I have actually never been so interested in The notch coallition, it's a fantastic history and and amazing group of males, but I like The more southern males like Xakanaxa and Lions in The duba and okavango! I thought that Ron and Notch 2 where The same lion! But from what I remember when I saw them it was Notch 2 who looked The biggest! Not Ron when i see them on these pictures i recall them. But not sure notch 2 seems to have a larger and thicker mane, and who know's who's The biggest! They are all quite big and close in size! There are much bigger Lions than these i can tell you! But they are by far bigger than 2 other male Lions in the Masai Mara i saw!
 *This image is copyright of its original author i *This image is copyright of its original author Notch 2 is quite impressive  (12-08-2014, 03:45 PM)'Pantherinae' Wrote: I have actually never been so interested in The notch coallition, it's a fantastic history and and amazing group of males, but I like The more southern males like Xakanaxa and Lions in The duba and okavango! I thought that Ron and Notch 2 where The same lion! But from what I remember when I saw them it was Notch 2 who looked The biggest! Not Ron when i see them on these pictures i recall them. But not sure notch 2 seems to have a larger and thicker mane, and who know's who's The biggest! They are all quite big and close in size! There are much bigger Lions than these i can tell you! But they are by far bigger than 2 other male Lions in the Masai Mara i saw! I remember you saying that you thought the Kruger lion was the largest you ever saw, correct?
Grimace
 *This image is copyright of its original author Male lion Ron  *This image is copyright of its original author Again a magnificent image of male lion Ron  *This image is copyright of its original author Ron again  *This image is copyright of its original author
Hi everyone, In The last weeks I have looked at some old pictures and infrormation I have collected over some time and read me up on it again. And @sanjay is absolutley correct in his statement that Cesar is The biggest male lion in this coallition! He is just an amazing lion and has started to become one of my favorite lions!
Did find this picture of Ron(which I incorrectly said was The largest) and Cesar when they wher a little younger and without any discussion Cesar is bigger one!  *This image is copyright of its original author Cesar in front and Ron behind |
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