+- WildFact (https://wildfact.com/forum)
+-- Forum: Information Section (https://wildfact.com/forum/forum-information-section)
+--- Forum: Terrestrial Wild Animals (https://wildfact.com/forum/forum-terrestrial-wild-animals)
+---- Forum: Wild Cats (https://wildfact.com/forum/forum-wild-cats)
+----- Forum: Lion (https://wildfact.com/forum/forum-lion)
+----- Thread: Notch Coalition Male Lineage (/topic-notch-coalition-male-lineage)
Notch Coalition Male Lineage - sanjay - 12-02-2014
This thread is dedicated for the information, discussion, pictures of one of the most famous lion from history, King Notch and his 5 sons- Ceaser, Notch2, Long, Grimace and Ron.
Notch the famous Lion of Maasai Mara, who was the first lion in recent history who formed a formidable coalition with his five sons to create one of the most famous Lion prides in recent history having taken over most of the prides in the region.
*This image is copyright of its original author
Request to Lion experts and enthusiast to provide information and pictures about these famous lions
RE: Lion king Notch and his famous 5 sons - chaos - 12-02-2014
Grimace, I wonder how he got that moniker? lol Notch is one handsome lion.
The Clint Eastwood of "the good, the bad and the ugly"
RE: Lion king Notch and his famous 5 sons - sanjay - 12-02-2014
I will post some picture and information of Ceaser, According to Wildlife Photographer Arthur Reiter -
"When I saw Ceasar again in September this year, I had the feeling that he has become significantly heavier since last year. Currently, he is perhaps the largest and heaviest lion in the Mara.
We all know that Caesar in 2013 lost a testicle. My guess is that this fact influences its hormonal balance. And the consequence is an increase in body weight. My question to the veterinarian among us is: Do we have to worry about Caesar?" ----- Arthur Reiter
Some of the recent image of massive Ceaser Lion, son of the notch
*This image is copyright of its original author
Ceaser on the early morning of September 28, 2014 , Mara.
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
Ceasar on the late afternoon of September 27, 2014
*This image is copyright of its original author
Ceasar (left) and Ron on the late afternoon of September 27, 2014
*This image is copyright of its original author
Caesar on the morning of September 27, 2014
All photos is copyright of Arthur Reiter.
In reply of his question regarding is massive size below is answer of some lion experts-
"First, many, many thanks for these stunning photos of beloved Caesar, Arthur!!! As for his little trouble, well I'm not a medic either but would expect effects on the mane growth in first row, since it happened quite late his mane was fully grown so we can rule that out. The remaining testicle might adjust to what's needed, don't think the loss of one affects the hormone houshold. It could affect his "desire" a bit tho and it's rather the lack of mating activity (while they lose much weight on more or less regular base) what's making him fat, and eating as "substitute satisfaction"...lol. xx" ---- Jeanette Leinweber
"He has always been fat Arthur even as a cub, he seems to possibly have had no litter mate,possible he may be from same litter a joy,both were the youngest cubs , has always been bigger than ron who is around two weeks older than him,even bigger than notch 2 who is oldest currently..He has always been on the fat side,but he may be even more now due to the one testis as you mentioned." ---- James Cohen
RE: Lion king Notch and his famous 5 sons - chaos - 12-03-2014
Caesar looks old. His posture and facial expression give the (false?) impression of old age.
RE: Lion king Notch and his famous 5 sons - Pckts - 12-03-2014
I believe Ron is the largest and the ruler of the pride now.
Correct?
RE: Lion king Notch and his famous 5 sons - sanjay - 12-03-2014
Can't say, According to Photographer , Ceaser is heaviest among them.
RE: Lion king Notch and his famous 5 sons - sanjay - 12-03-2014
Ceaser lost a testicle in a fight due to mating rights and it influences its hormonal balance
RE: Lion king Notch and his famous 5 sons - Pckts - 12-03-2014
Here is what @Pantherinae wrote
"name: Notch II/ Notch 2/ Ron
coaliton: notch boys
coalition numbers: 5 ( before 6)
age: about 9 years
status: alive
location: Masai Mara
Ron is the biggest male of the famous coalition "the notch boys" he has now started beeing more and more dominante and even Notch himself has to back down sometimes, he's often walking in front when the coaliton moves or patrols their territory! Is an amazing hippo killer and is often leading the hunt when the gang cooperating in taking down big prey such as buffalo and hippo. He's a big guy! "
I will look up Ceasar and Ron comparisions
RE: Lion king Notch and his famous 5 sons - Roflcopters - 12-03-2014
I don't think Photographers are reliable source of information when it comes to determining sizes, I've seen a lot of photographers misusing the word "big" and just because they are photographers doesn't make them any more qualified than us. They are not scientists and not qualified enough to know who's or what's bigger. this is a cult we've been following for the longest time and it's time to put an end to all of this rubbish. Yes, there are some exceptions when something is clearly bigger than all the others. this statement is true for Wagdoh in all of Central India (probably) and maybe even Jai of Umred (Central India) others, not so much. back on topic now, Caesar is a huge male ! Im not gonna lie, Im impressed by his phsique. TFS
RE: Lion king Notch and his famous 5 sons - sanjay - 12-03-2014
@Pckts , If you see 4rth Pic in my second post you can see Ceaser and Ron .
From that pic, I don't think Ron is bigger. Anyway none of us have any personnel experience and no scientific statement. So its useless speculation.
@Roflcopters . I agree to some extent on your statement not fully, During my activity on fb to promote , I came to know many photographers who has lot of information about Lion, Elephant, Leopard and many other animals.
Time to time they write it on comments and its very interesting to read. Specially experienced photographers have spent there life in photography of a particular animal, they know everything about them from their childhood.
RE: Lion king Notch and his famous 5 sons - tigerluver - 12-03-2014
I agree with Sanjay on the photographer take. Actually being there and experiencing specimens in three dimensional space gives one a better platform for comparison. Obviously one opinion is not the final word, but nonetheless, my point stands. Judging size from photos - especially those without a reference object such as a mate - is a bit futile, all one can really infer is relative robusticity.
RE: Lion king Notch and his famous 5 sons - Spalea - 12-03-2014
These lions are beautiful ! I don't imagine how a wild beast can live without a testicle (lost during a fight ? How such a wild beast can lost a testicle ?). The pain must be constant and despite of this, Caesar continues to be a lion... Yes, I know among the animals the courage, the bravery are completely some inconscious character traits but nevertheless I admire that. I am, we are all in front of our computer screens, and of course in a case of a medical operation/treatment we resort to anesthesia and so on...
Sorry for these - absolutely no scientific but purely emotional - impressions... But "tough shit" !
RE: Lion king Notch and his famous 5 sons - GuateGojira - 12-03-2014
(12-03-2014, 12:13 PM)'tigerluver' Wrote: I agree with Sanjay on the photographer take. Actually being there and experiencing specimens in three dimensional space gives one a better platform for comparison. Obviously one opinion is not the final word, but nonetheless, my point stands. Judging size from photos - especially those without a reference object such as a mate - is a bit futile, all one can really infer is relative robusticity.Definitely not agree. Photographers can know the story of a particular animal, but surely can't know the size or weight of an specimen by mere sight. Even similar sized specimens in the wild have shown to be completely different in weight and with slight different lengths, I have several cases of that. In this case, an opinion of a person that say that one animal is "bigger" than other, is just that, an opinion, and should not be taken as evidence in any form.
By the way, you forget the fact that people have feelings and preferences and that can cloud judgement. So, a photographer, like and old hunter, can exaggerate the "size" of an animal of his preferences, even with no logical reason.
Only direct measurements on the animal, or the new-on-the-way three dimensional photographic analysis, are reliable ways to state the size of an animal.
RE: Lion king Notch and his famous 5 sons - tigerluver - 12-03-2014
I never mentioned size and weight, I stated better platform for comparison, different aspects. One can see A is relatively bigger than B, but any estimation of quantitative dimensions is futile. You're right on the exaggeration, and I already embraced that problem by adding that an opinion is not a final word. My point was that we're not any better apt at guaging size from 2D pictures than someone who's been there in 3D space, and I'll say it again so no one confuses my thoughts, photographers still are not the final word as opinions are opinions, but just a better word than us. Remember, like I always say, you'll rarely find me on one end of the spectrum.
RE: Lion king Notch and his famous 5 sons - sanjay - 12-03-2014
@GuateGojira , I guess my and tigerluver's points mentioned above about photographer is not for each and every photographer. But there are few photographer who are more than "JUST PHOTOGRAPHER" and its my personnel experience. They are well informed about animals and work as volunteer with very good NGO's and other organization, for example, http://www.sheldrickwildlifetrust.org/ one of the best wildlife trust.
Some of them have spent their life taking photograph of a single animal from their(animal) childhood to death.
Definitely, 80% photographer are not in that pool. But they are not 100%.
Also, some photographer may not have that deep knowledge about wide variety of animals but they sometime have extraordinary information about some particular animal.
At least, they are better than few of us who have never witness any animal in wild.