There is a world somewhere between reality and fiction. Although ignored by many, it is very real and so are those living in it. This forum is about the natural world. Here, wild animals will be heard and respected. The forum offers a glimpse into an unknown world as well as a room with a view on the present and the future. Anyone able to speak on behalf of those living in the emerald forest and the deep blue sea is invited to join.
(12-27-2024, 04:53 AM)Mapokser Wrote: Sons didn't accept him because they thought he'd be useful, I doubt they can rationalize in this way, otherwise we'd see males forming larger coalitions all the time to take over or resist take overs.
They know each other for the sons' entire lives, living together for almost half of Mohawk's life, and they went nomadic together, forming a coalition bond. A few months apart wasn't enough for the sons to go from "he's a member of the coalition" to "his an outsider", it often takes at least an entire year apart for coalitions to break, but even then, it might not be a complete break up, as shown with Mohawk himself feeding with DM a few weeks/days before DM died.
They didn't act as a coalition anymore but still had enough of a bond to not see each other as enemies.
Hi i wanted to ask. What do you think happened? When Mohawk was with Nukhumas and then decided to go back to Kruger? Could it be roars and or maybe lionesses in Kruger?
(12-27-2024, 04:04 AM)KM600 Wrote: Mohawk prolly couldn’t believe his luck when he was reaccepted by his sons, they’ve essentially formed a mini Mantimahle breakaway pride. They wouldn’t accept him unless he was useful to them. Both the remaining Avocas have been through the absolute lowest of lows, losing their favourite companions and yet strive to become atleast semi territorial. Both very impressive and inspiring.
I kind of don't like this whole "beng useful to be allowed in" argument, I don't think they really care. If there's a bond or certain level of familiarity between lions, they will accept each other. The limping Monowana was able to find a coalition partner in the condition he was in. If lions were so calculated, something like that wouldn't have happened. The Avocas clearly still felt a connection to him and were probably happy to finally run into him again.
Limping Monwana prolly wouldn’t have been accepted if Giraffe male had another partner, and he was seen multiple times roaring, scent marking etc. He wasn’t completely useless and for an already lone male, it made sense to stick with him.
Both Nkuhuma boys already had these 2 Mantimahle lionesses before Mohawk come back and have been in perfect condition. So has it helped Mohawk, the fact he has a pre-existing bond with them, ofcourse, but it’s not the sole reason he’s stayed with them. They wouldn’t let him interact with their lionesses and help feed on their kills if he wasn’t pulling his own weight too.
(12-27-2024, 04:04 AM)KM600 Wrote: Mohawk prolly couldn’t believe his luck when he was reaccepted by his sons, they’ve essentially formed a mini Mantimahle breakaway pride. They wouldn’t accept him unless he was useful to them. Both the remaining Avocas have been through the absolute lowest of lows, losing their favourite companions and yet strive to become atleast semi territorial. Both very impressive and inspiring.
I kind of don't like this whole "beng useful to be allowed in" argument, I don't think they really care. If there's a bond or certain level of familiarity between lions, they will accept each other. The limping Monowana was able to find a coalition partner in the condition he was in. If lions were so calculated, something like that wouldn't have happened. The Avocas clearly still felt a connection to him and were probably happy to finally run into him again.
Limping Monwana prolly wouldn’t have been accepted if Giraffe male had another partner, and he was seen multiple times roaring, scent marking etc. He wasn’t completely useless and for an already lone male, it made sense to stick with him.
Both Nkuhuma boys already had these 2 Mantimahle lionesses before Mohawk come back and have been in perfect condition. So has it helped Mohawk, the fact he has a pre-existing bond with them, ofcourse, but it’s not the sole reason he’s stayed with them. They wouldn’t let him interact with their lionesses and help feed on their kills if he wasn’t pulling his own weight too.
Hi that is not true what you are saying about Mohawk and Nukhuma male lions. I am saying all lions feel, bond. Mohawk was with his son’s young sons. He must of helped them before they can help. I have seen lions young lions and lionesses help an older lionesses; a lionesses could not bite, because of missing knines, but lionesses help biting to open what lioness couldn’t. Nkuhuma male lions are must love and like Mohawk around they have a bond. I think it was circumstances, but it happened. If Mohawk was with brothers he may not stayed with Nkuhuma. They are two Nkuhuma male lions maybe if there were more brothers, but may want his company.
"Mohawk and his dark maned son are both mating with mantimahle females, his light maned son made a Buffalo kill by himself yesterday, all on rhino walking Safari concession."
(12-27-2024, 05:30 AM)KM600 Wrote: Limping Monwana prolly wouldn’t have been accepted if Giraffe male had another partner, and he was seen multiple times roaring, scent marking etc. He wasn’t completely useless and for an already lone male, it made sense to stick with him.
He was useless and definitely wasn't a dominant male or roaring/scent marking. If he was still a dominant male, he and the pride he would be dominant over would have never accepted the Girraffe male. He was basically a goner and it was a bit of a surprise to everyone that he found a partner. There were literally zero upsides to joining him and the Girraffe male still accepted him for whatever reason.
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Yeah but I don’t think he’d kick him out skorro jr bullied both his brothers but once limper died he lost his confidence so it’s a plus to have another male around regardless but the weaker male will be bullied
(12-27-2024, 06:01 PM)Ttimemarti Wrote: Yeah but I don’t think he’d kick him out skorro jr bullied both his brothers but once limper died he lost his confidence so it’s a plus to have another male around regardless but the weaker male will be bullied
Let us remember, Scar Tumbela was the original dominant male, doing most of the mating when they took over the Othawa Pride. Skorro Jr wasn't bullying him, until he became very ill. His illness caused him to be so weak that even young subs were pushing him off of kills.
(12-27-2024, 06:01 PM)Ttimemarti Wrote: Yeah but I don’t think he’d kick him out skorro jr bullied both his brothers but once limper died he lost his confidence so it’s a plus to have another male around regardless but the weaker male will be bullied
Let us remember, Scar Tumbela was the original dominant male, doing most of the mating when they took over the Othawa Pride. Skorro Jr wasn't bullying him, until he became very ill. His illness caused him to be so weak that even young subs were pushing him off of kills.
True very true very strange how that worked out I’m surprised skorro jr didn’t try and kill the cubs since they weren’t his unless he mated with the females after his brothers did
(12-27-2024, 06:01 PM)Ttimemarti Wrote: Yeah but I don’t think he’d kick him out skorro jr bullied both his brothers but once limper died he lost his confidence so it’s a plus to have another male around regardless but the weaker male will be bullied
Let us remember, Scar Tumbela was the original dominant male, doing most of the mating when they took over the Othawa Pride. Skorro Jr wasn't bullying him, until he became very ill. His illness caused him to be so weak that even young subs were pushing him off of kills.
True very true very strange how that worked out I’m surprised skorro jr didn’t try and kill the cubs since they weren’t his unless he mated with the females after his brothers did
He did indeed mate, some, not sure if with all of the females or not. But, typically, coalitions don't kill their coalition partner's young, otherwise being a member of one would be detrimental.
(12-27-2024, 06:01 PM)Ttimemarti Wrote: Yeah but I don’t think he’d kick him out skorro jr bullied both his brothers but once limper died he lost his confidence so it’s a plus to have another male around regardless but the weaker male will be bullied
Let us remember, Scar Tumbela was the original dominant male, doing most of the mating when they took over the Othawa Pride. Skorro Jr wasn't bullying him, until he became very ill. His illness caused him to be so weak that even young subs were pushing him off of kills.
True very true very strange how that worked out I’m surprised skorro jr didn’t try and kill the cubs since they weren’t his unless he mated with the females after his brothers did
He did indeed mate, some, not sure if with all of the females or not. But, typically, coalitions don't kill their coalition partner's young, otherwise being a member of one would be detrimental.
Ooooh so why did the mapogos kill makhulus cubs? And Mr T kill the ximhungwe cubs… I always wondered why but they all seemed like dominant males (as in makhulu wasn’t the top dog all the time) of the coalition at some point or just very aggressive. I know why Mr T killed the ximhubgwe cubs he was 100% not the father but killing makhulus cubs why?
(12-27-2024, 06:01 PM)Ttimemarti Wrote: Yeah but I don’t think he’d kick him out skorro jr bullied both his brothers but once limper died he lost his confidence so it’s a plus to have another male around regardless but the weaker male will be bullied
Let us remember, Scar Tumbela was the original dominant male, doing most of the mating when they took over the Othawa Pride. Skorro Jr wasn't bullying him, until he became very ill. His illness caused him to be so weak that even young subs were pushing him off of kills.
True very true very strange how that worked out I’m surprised skorro jr didn’t try and kill the cubs since they weren’t his unless he mated with the females after his brothers did
He did indeed mate, some, not sure if with all of the females or not. But, typically, coalitions don't kill their coalition partner's young, otherwise being a member of one would be detrimental.
Ooooh so why did the mapogos kill makhulus cubs? And Mr T kill the ximhungwe cubs… I always wondered why but they all seemed like dominant males (as in makhulu wasn’t the top dog all the time) of the coalition at some point or just very aggressive. I know why Mr T killed the ximhubgwe cubs he was 100% not the father but killing makhulus cubs why?
While such incidents do happen from time to time, they are much more of an outlier, than the norm. I wish we knew why those things happen, but I do not have the answers to why.
Avoca Male Lions and Their Male Lineage
