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(09-02-2024, 08:15 PM)Duco Ndona Wrote: We see how it goes. Nym and a partner beat the PCmales before and lost with another partner. So it can go any direction really.
correct me if im wrong but are u suggesting Nkuhuma male and Talamati male stand a chance against PCM?
Also what even is the matter with refering to him as nym at this point lol
The following 1 user Likes Ngonya's post:1 user Likes Ngonya's post • BA0701
(09-02-2024, 08:15 PM)Duco Ndona Wrote: We see how it goes. Nym and a partner beat the PCmales before and lost with another partner. So it can go any direction really.
correct me if im wrong but are u suggesting Nkuhuma male and Talamati male stand a chance against PCM?
Also what even is the matter with refering to him as nym at this point lol
You think they dont? It could go either way really, we havent seen PCM prove their power against other lions in the pyshical condition both Talamati and Mfumo Jr have
As far as I can remember they beat a 12 year old Nhenha
Caught K5 and gave him a good beating
Submit a suprised Tumbela in a 2v1
Yes they are big, but Mfumo Jr and Talamati male ( they really need a coalition name to not write all that everytime lmao) are not small lions at all
I can see a world where they can hold their ground in some parts of the west against PCM ( who are not joke dont get me wrong)
Let alone the boys catching a PCM alone since they are doing that quite a bit in the last month or so
09-02-2024, 09:23 PM( This post was last modified: 09-03-2024, 09:14 PM by Mapokser )
Best case scenario is for PCM to quickly deal with them before more cubs dies. Ximhungwes are more in the northern part of the West and constantly with PCM, so they are better off, but Manghenis and Tsalalas are in deep trouble with the presence of these 2.
Honestly, I can see the PCM ignoring them if they stick to the south of the Western Sector and Singita.
(09-02-2024, 08:15 PM)Duco Ndona Wrote: We see how it goes. Nym and a partner beat the PCmales before and lost with another partner. So it can go any direction really.
correct me if im wrong but are u suggesting Nkuhuma male and Talamati male stand a chance against PCM?
Also what even is the matter with refering to him as nym at this point lol
You think they dont? It could go either way really, we havent seen PCM prove their power against other lions in the pyshical condition both Talamati and Mfumo Jr have
As far as I can remember they beat a 12 year old Nhenha
Caught K5 and gave him a good beating
Submit a suprised Tumbela in a 2v1
Yes they are big, but Mfumo Jr and Talamati male ( they really need a coalition name to not write all that everytime lmao) are not small lions at all
I can see a world where they can hold their ground in some parts of the west against PCM ( who are not joke dont get me wrong)
Let alone the boys catching a PCM alone since they are doing that quite a bit in the last month or so
At issue, in my mind, is how close knit the PCMs have always been, almost always fighting as one, and until just recently, when you saw one, you always saw the other. Very similar to the S Avocas in that regard.
Nkuhuma and Khanya are only new at building their relationship, and people seem to believe that in the face of a challenge Nkuhuma may run, though I have not seen any evidence of his ever leaving a partner behind. Only time I have witnessed Nkuhuma running from other males is when the PCMs surprised him as he way lying down resting, and he was alone then, with no sign of Nhenha around, as they were partners at that time. I believe, this idea that Nkuhuma will run away is based largely on the fact that some of his partners have been killed and he has come out unscathed. This may be right, I don't know, as we don't have any evidence that he fought by their sides either, but we do have evidence of his having battled more than one lion at a time, and he did not run in those situations, in fact he stood his ground, bared his teeth and claws, and fought.
So, for me, how the two of them react if/when they may be confronted by another coalition is yet to be established. Even if they do choose to fight together, all of the other surrounding coalitions are much more experienced in the enterprise of fighting beside one another, which certainly places the two of them at a disadvantage, imo, at least until we see otherwise.
09-02-2024, 11:16 PM( This post was last modified: 09-02-2024, 11:17 PM by Rui Ferreira )
(09-02-2024, 10:28 PM)BA0701 Wrote:
(09-02-2024, 09:20 PM)Rui Ferreira Wrote:
(09-02-2024, 09:01 PM)Ngonya Wrote:
(09-02-2024, 08:15 PM)Duco Ndona Wrote: We see how it goes. Nym and a partner beat the PCmales before and lost with another partner. So it can go any direction really.
correct me if im wrong but are u suggesting Nkuhuma male and Talamati male stand a chance against PCM?
Also what even is the matter with refering to him as nym at this point lol
You think they dont? It could go either way really, we havent seen PCM prove their power against other lions in the pyshical condition both Talamati and Mfumo Jr have
As far as I can remember they beat a 12 year old Nhenha
Caught K5 and gave him a good beating
Submit a suprised Tumbela in a 2v1
Yes they are big, but Mfumo Jr and Talamati male ( they really need a coalition name to not write all that everytime lmao) are not small lions at all
I can see a world where they can hold their ground in some parts of the west against PCM ( who are not joke dont get me wrong)
Let alone the boys catching a PCM alone since they are doing that quite a bit in the last month or so
At issue, in my mind, is how close knit the PCMs have always been, almost always fighting as one, and until just recently, when you saw one, you always saw the other. Very similar to the S Avocas in that regard.
Nkuhuma and Khanya are only new at building their relationship, and people seem to believe that in the face of a challenge Nkuhuma may run, though I have not seen any evidence of his ever leaving a partner behind. Only time I have witnessed Nkuhuma running from other males is when the PCMs surprised him as he way lying down resting, and he was alone then, with no sign of Nhenha around, as they were partners at that time. I believe, this idea that Nkuhuma will run away is based largely on the fact that some of his partners have been killed and he has come out unscathed. This may be right, I don't know, as we don't have any evidence that he fought by their sides either, but we do have evidence of his having battled more than one lion at a time, and he did not run in those situations, in fact he stood his ground, bared his teeth and claws, and fought.
So, for me, how the two of them react if/when they may be confronted by another coalition is yet to be established. Even if they do choose to fight together, all of the other surrounding coalitions are much more experienced in the enterprise of fighting beside one another, which certainly places the two of them at a disadvantage, imo, at least until we see otherwise.
Thats a strong point you made, in that regard yes PCM are at an advantage
I think some people look at lion dynamics as a reality show and have their favourites and ugly ducklings
For many Nkuhuma is ugly duckling, just because as you stated he has had multiple male partners
He is a true survivor and has had alot of bad luck thru his life
People give him the fault for the Nhenha death and Tumbela incident, most likely both were trying run and just got separeted wich happends all the time
Nhenha an old lion , and Tumbela with problems moving, got caught and when that happend Nkuhuma couldn´t do nothing
09-02-2024, 11:25 PM( This post was last modified: 09-02-2024, 11:36 PM by Duco Ndona )
The PCmales are in my opinion a overrated coalition. They largely profited from the death of the Styx male, Othawa male, the decline of the Tumbella coalition and the distracted northern Avocas which made it easy for them to expand to multiple prides without much of a fight.
If it comes to actually confronting rival male lions, we see they mostly target weaker lions, don't finish fights and drag their feet if it comes to confronting their rivals. Allowing rival lions like Tumbella to spend generous amount of time there even when it should be easy to send them off.
Furthermore, they are seen more apart recently and if they insist on keeping the Nkuhuma pride, will be spending lots of time away from the west. They may even choose to focus on that pride more now, with competition increasing in the west.
Nym or Nkuhuma and Kyane are on paper a very promising coalition of two strong capable males. Right now they easily form a mayor threat to any unprotected pride and if they can get their act together, they are strong enough to take on rival male lions or atleast deter the PCmales from confronting the two directly two versus two. Nym is also familiar with the local prides there and knows life can be good with them.
I can easily see a scenario where both coalitions start hanging out in western sector without directly confronting each other. Playing a game of chicken until one group abandons the west under the pressure or manages to catch their rival alone. Which would be a great risk for the prides.
Offcource that is if Nym and Kyane choose to stay in western sector. Which is still a big if at the moment.
(09-02-2024, 11:25 PM)Duco Ndona Wrote: The PCmales are in my opinion a overrated coalition. They largely profited from the death of the Styx male, Othawa male, the decline of the Tumbella coalition and the distracted northern Avocas which made it easy for them to expand to multiple prides without much of a fight.
If it comes to actually confronting rival male lions, we see they mostly target weaker lions, don't finish fights and drag their feet if it comes to confronting their rivals. Allowing rival lions like Tumbella to spend generous amount of time there even when it should be easy to send them off.
Furthermore, they are seen more apart recently and if they insist on keeping the Nkuhuma pride, will be spending lots of time away from the west.
Nym or Nkuhuma and Kyane are on paper a very promising coalition of two strong capable males. Right now they easily form a mayor threat to any unprotected pride and if they can get their act together, they are strong enough to take on rival male lions or atleast deter the PCmales from confronting the two directly two versus two.
I can easily see a scenario where both coalitions start hanging out in western sector without directly confronting each other. Playing a game of chicken until one group abandons the west under the pressure or manages to catch their rival alone. Which would be a great risk for the prides.
Offcource that is if Nym and Kyane choose to stay in western sector. Which is still a big if at the moment.
The Nukhuma male lion and the young Talamati male lion would do and be better in the north. The bad thing is the Nukhuma pride is their family and relatives. The Plain Camp male lions have been seen with the Nukhuma lionesses? They have been with the Mahangeni lionesses I was hoping they stayed there.
09-02-2024, 11:57 PM( This post was last modified: 09-03-2024, 01:04 AM by afortich )
Khanya is a very brave and tough lion and NYM got a lot of experience, I would not give for granted that the PCMs will just beat them considering what @Duco Ndona just said above about PCMs finishing other lions.
Furthermore, we really don't know how Nhena and Skorro Jr. were caught when they were with NYM.
I dont think PCMs are overrated, their resume for 3 yrs of dominance certaintly doesnt suggest that.
In which they where seen only 1 time giving up and retreating from the clash, when recently they invaded Ndhzengas, which was also a toss up/2h chase back and forth, where Ndhzengas had more reasons to fight for until the end as they where getting invaded.
And i dont think a duo of 2 males, who are together, for what, 1 month? Are anywhere near the lvl of 2 Ndhzengas (who btw recently also scared away 3 Nkhulus).
So, unless they somehow caught 1 of PCMs alone or something like that, chances in a straight 2vs2 are very slim to 0.
PCMs are not afraid of them, they will charge in by force and scatter them.
PCMs defeated NK numerous times with different parters, idk why this time would be different.
09-03-2024, 02:06 AM( This post was last modified: 09-03-2024, 02:08 AM by Duco Ndona )
Its fairly easy to remain dominant for three years when you aren't really challenged and your problems just happen to resolve themselves on their own. So that they have been around for 3 years isn't saying much.
And the issue is. They aren't chasing off rival groups. They are are just ignoring them even if they have a full advantage. Take for instance Tumbella. Normally a solo lion like him would have no hope standing up against the PCmales. Yet here he is, spending years now in their territory. Pretty much unbothered. Except for one single fight, which he was allowed to walk away from.
If the PCmales aren't even handling Tumbella. Then why would we assume that they would suddenly act now.
The PCmales also dont know how long Khanya and Nym have been together. All they see is a coalition of two and the real potential of a two versus two. Which they may choose to avoid for now. Afteral, so far every other larger coalition that entered western sector just moved away on their own.
And the longer they avoid this confrontation, the more opportunity Nym and Khanya have to develop their rapport. Time is definitely in their favour.
The score actually is a tie right now. Nym and Styx beat the PCmales first. But Nym was then beaten in return by the PCmales while he was in a coalition with Nhenha. The other pairings he was in never ended up in a serious confrontation with the PCmales I recall.
And yes, if the PCmales take this threat seriously and strike now, they can beat them. My point never was that their last days were near and they may very well win.
Just that we should not underestimate the Nym Khanya duo as the two groups are much more evenly matched and that this can turn into a real issue in the coming year.
Which will only happen if they stay around and if they get their act together. Which are still iffs. But not scenarios we can just easily ignore.
(09-02-2024, 08:15 PM)Duco Ndona Wrote: We see how it goes. Nym and a partner beat the PCmales before and lost with another partner. So it can go any direction really.
correct me if im wrong but are u suggesting Nkuhuma male and Talamati male stand a chance against PCM?
Also what even is the matter with refering to him as nym at this point lol
You think they dont? It could go either way really, we havent seen PCM prove their power against other lions in the pyshical condition both Talamati and Mfumo Jr have
As far as I can remember they beat a 12 year old Nhenha
Caught K5 and gave him a good beating
Submit a suprised Tumbela in a 2v1
Yes they are big, but Mfumo Jr and Talamati male ( they really need a coalition name to not write all that everytime lmao) are not small lions at all
I can see a world where they can hold their ground in some parts of the west against PCM ( who are not joke dont get me wrong)
Let alone the boys catching a PCM alone since they are doing that quite a bit in the last month or so
At issue, in my mind, is how close knit the PCMs have always been, almost always fighting as one, and until just recently, when you saw one, you always saw the other. Very similar to the S Avocas in that regard.
Nkuhuma and Khanya are only new at building their relationship, and people seem to believe that in the face of a challenge Nkuhuma may run, though I have not seen any evidence of his ever leaving a partner behind. Only time I have witnessed Nkuhuma running from other males is when the PCMs surprised him as he way lying down resting, and he was alone then, with no sign of Nhenha around, as they were partners at that time. I believe, this idea that Nkuhuma will run away is based largely on the fact that some of his partners have been killed and he has come out unscathed. This may be right, I don't know, as we don't have any evidence that he fought by their sides either, but we do have evidence of his having battled more than one lion at a time, and he did not run in those situations, in fact he stood his ground, bared his teeth and claws, and fought.
So, for me, how the two of them react if/when they may be confronted by another coalition is yet to be established. Even if they do choose to fight together, all of the other surrounding coalitions are much more experienced in the enterprise of fighting beside one another, which certainly places the two of them at a disadvantage, imo, at least until we see otherwise.
Thats a strong point you made, in that regard yes PCM are at an advantage
I think some people look at lion dynamics as a reality show and have their favourites and ugly ducklings
For many Nkuhuma is ugly duckling, just because as you stated he has had multiple male partners
He is a true survivor and has had alot of bad luck thru his life
People give him the fault for the Nhenha death and Tumbela incident, most likely both were trying run and just got separeted wich happends all the time
Nhenha an old lion , and Tumbela with problems moving, got caught and when that happend Nkuhuma couldn´t do nothing
As for Nhenha, I wish there had been eyes on the battle that ultimately took his life. During that time, around the same time I mentioned Nkuhuma being caught alone by the PCMs, he and Nhenha were not inseparable, in fact they were being seen alone more often during that time, so we do not even know if NYM was present when Nhenha was attacked, and at the same time we know it was never in Nhenha's nature to run, especially when he was in an area he believed belonged to him. Only time I recall Nhenha running from another male was when Mohawk surprised him during a mating session, and he did not know if Mohawk was alone, but he definitely knew that Tinyo was on the other side of their territory at that time.
As for Skorro Jr, his leg was already injured by the PCMs, when he was attacked by the Gijimas, he and NYM were in a strange place, and so naturally they likely ran when confronted by the Gijimas, and Skorro was always going to be the one to get caught in that situation.
(09-02-2024, 08:15 PM)Duco Ndona Wrote: We see how it goes. Nym and a partner beat the PCmales before and lost with another partner. So it can go any direction really.
correct me if im wrong but are u suggesting Nkuhuma male and Talamati male stand a chance against PCM?
Also what even is the matter with refering to him as nym at this point lol
You think they dont? It could go either way really, we havent seen PCM prove their power against other lions in the pyshical condition both Talamati and Mfumo Jr have
As far as I can remember they beat a 12 year old Nhenha
Caught K5 and gave him a good beating
Submit a suprised Tumbela in a 2v1
Yes they are big, but Mfumo Jr and Talamati male ( they really need a coalition name to not write all that everytime lmao) are not small lions at all
I can see a world where they can hold their ground in some parts of the west against PCM ( who are not joke dont get me wrong)
Let alone the boys catching a PCM alone since they are doing that quite a bit in the last month or so
At issue, in my mind, is how close knit the PCMs have always been, almost always fighting as one, and until just recently, when you saw one, you always saw the other. Very similar to the S Avocas in that regard.
Nkuhuma and Khanya are only new at building their relationship, and people seem to believe that in the face of a challenge Nkuhuma may run, though I have not seen any evidence of his ever leaving a partner behind. Only time I have witnessed Nkuhuma running from other males is when the PCMs surprised him as he way lying down resting, and he was alone then, with no sign of Nhenha around, as they were partners at that time. I believe, this idea that Nkuhuma will run away is based largely on the fact that some of his partners have been killed and he has come out unscathed. This may be right, I don't know, as we don't have any evidence that he fought by their sides either, but we do have evidence of his having battled more than one lion at a time, and he did not run in those situations, in fact he stood his ground, bared his teeth and claws, and fought.
So, for me, how the two of them react if/when they may be confronted by another coalition is yet to be established. Even if they do choose to fight together, all of the other surrounding coalitions are much more experienced in the enterprise of fighting beside one another, which certainly places the two of them at a disadvantage, imo, at least until we see otherwise.
Thats a strong point you made, in that regard yes PCM are at an advantage
I think some people look at lion dynamics as a reality show and have their favourites and ugly ducklings
For many Nkuhuma is ugly duckling, just because as you stated he has had multiple male partners
He is a true survivor and has had alot of bad luck thru his life
People give him the fault for the Nhenha death and Tumbela incident, most likely both were trying run and just got separeted wich happends all the time
Nhenha an old lion , and Tumbela with problems moving, got caught and when that happend Nkuhuma couldn´t do nothing
As for Nhenha, I wish there had been eyes on the battle that ultimately took his life. During that time, around the same time I mentioned Nkuhuma being caught alone by the PCMs, he and Nhenha were not inseparable, in fact they were being seen alone more often during that time, so we do not even know if NYM was present when Nhenha was attacked, and at the same time we know it was never in Nhenha's nature to run, especially when he was in an area he believed belonged to him. Only time I recall Nhenha running from another male was when Mohawk surprised him during a mating session, and he did not know if Mohawk was alone, but he definitely knew that Tinyo was on the other side of their territory at that time.
As for Skorro Jr, his leg was already injured by the PCMs, when he was attacked by the Gijimas, he and NYM were in a strange place, and so naturally they likely ran when confronted by the Gijimas, and Skorro was always going to be the one to get caught in that situation.
If memory serves correct, NK had very minor injuries around the same time Nhenna was caught. He was said to have lost small pieces of his mane and left a slight blood trail, so he most likely was caught for a second or two, but was never overwhelmed by both PCMs. Nhenna wasn’t as lucky unfortunately.
09-03-2024, 05:09 AM( This post was last modified: 09-03-2024, 05:12 AM by Ngonya )
(09-02-2024, 09:20 PM)Rui Ferreira Wrote: You think they dont?
Tbh yes i think they dont.
The only part of me that makes me think of the slightest chance is because nature is unpredictable and anything can happen, but yeah very unlikely, lets be for real.
(09-02-2024, 09:20 PM)Rui Ferreira Wrote: Yes they are big, but Mfumo Jr and Talamati male are not small lions at all
it takes much more than size to put up a real fight against two confident and dominant males.
Experience, confidence, boldness...
And lets be real, Nkuhuma and Khanya lack most of it.
"but Nkuhuma has plenty of experience"
his experience being running around and getting mauled? Well i dont see how that would be much useful unless ur taking a beating.
(09-02-2024, 09:20 PM)Rui Ferreira Wrote: I can see a world where they can hold their ground in some parts of the west against PCM ( who are not joke dont get me wrong)
I see ur point and respect that, even thought i disagree, i still think theres always a probability.
(09-02-2024, 11:25 PM)Duco Ndona Wrote: Nym or Nkuhuma and Kyane are on paper a very promising coalition of two strong capable males.
Agree and hope the best for this two. I would say it would be interesting for them to take over ven Nkuhuma pride... if Nkuhuma wasnt born in there lol.
But i doubt they would give much of a fight to the two Plains Camp males at this moment.
(09-02-2024, 08:15 PM)Duco Ndona Wrote: We see how it goes. Nym and a partner beat the PCmales before and lost with another partner. So it can go any direction really.
correct me if im wrong but are u suggesting Nkuhuma male and Talamati male stand a chance against PCM?
Also what even is the matter with refering to him as nym at this point lol
You think they dont? It could go either way really, we havent seen PCM prove their power against other lions in the pyshical condition both Talamati and Mfumo Jr have
As far as I can remember they beat a 12 year old Nhenha
Caught K5 and gave him a good beating
Submit a suprised Tumbela in a 2v1
Yes they are big, but Mfumo Jr and Talamati male ( they really need a coalition name to not write all that everytime lmao) are not small lions at all
I can see a world where they can hold their ground in some parts of the west against PCM ( who are not joke dont get me wrong)
Let alone the boys catching a PCM alone since they are doing that quite a bit in the last month or so
At issue, in my mind, is how close knit the PCMs have always been, almost always fighting as one, and until just recently, when you saw one, you always saw the other. Very similar to the S Avocas in that regard.
Nkuhuma and Khanya are only new at building their relationship, and people seem to believe that in the face of a challenge Nkuhuma may run, though I have not seen any evidence of his ever leaving a partner behind. Only time I have witnessed Nkuhuma running from other males is when the PCMs surprised him as he way lying down resting, and he was alone then, with no sign of Nhenha around, as they were partners at that time. I believe, this idea that Nkuhuma will run away is based largely on the fact that some of his partners have been killed and he has come out unscathed. This may be right, I don't know, as we don't have any evidence that he fought by their sides either, but we do have evidence of his having battled more than one lion at a time, and he did not run in those situations, in fact he stood his ground, bared his teeth and claws, and fought.
So, for me, how the two of them react if/when they may be confronted by another coalition is yet to be established. Even if they do choose to fight together, all of the other surrounding coalitions are much more experienced in the enterprise of fighting beside one another, which certainly places the two of them at a disadvantage, imo, at least until we see otherwise.
Thats a strong point you made, in that regard yes PCM are at an advantage
I think some people look at lion dynamics as a reality show and have their favourites and ugly ducklings
For many Nkuhuma is ugly duckling, just because as you stated he has had multiple male partners
He is a true survivor and has had alot of bad luck thru his life
People give him the fault for the Nhenha death and Tumbela incident, most likely both were trying run and just got separeted wich happends all the time
Nhenha an old lion , and Tumbela with problems moving, got caught and when that happend Nkuhuma couldn´t do nothing
As for Nhenha, I wish there had been eyes on the battle that ultimately took his life. During that time, around the same time I mentioned Nkuhuma being caught alone by the PCMs, he and Nhenha were not inseparable, in fact they were being seen alone more often during that time, so we do not even know if NYM was present when Nhenha was attacked, and at the same time we know it was never in Nhenha's nature to run, especially when he was in an area he believed belonged to him. Only time I recall Nhenha running from another male was when Mohawk surprised him during a mating session, and he did not know if Mohawk was alone, but he definitely knew that Tinyo was on the other side of their territory at that time.
As for Skorro Jr, his leg was already injured by the PCMs, when he was attacked by the Gijimas, he and NYM were in a strange place, and so naturally they likely ran when confronted by the Gijimas, and Skorro was always going to be the one to get caught in that situation.
If memory serves correct, NK had very minor injuries around the same time Nhenna was caught. He was said to have lost small pieces of his mane and left a slight blood trail, so he most likely was caught for a second or two, but was never overwhelmed by both PCMs. Nhenna wasn’t as lucky unfortunately.
I recall the mentioning of the pieces of mane and blood trail, but I have always figured they were from Nhenha, as all of the lions had left the scene by the time it was found.
