Avoca Male Lions and Their Male Lineage

[Tylermartin!]

(09-01-2023, 01:31 AM)Duco Ndona Wrote: Its hard to say. The last sighting was a while ago, even before the sighting of the wounded brother alone. So sightings of the Avocas, alive or not are already very sporadic. That they are living right next to Kruger, where its normal for lions not to be seen for long periods does not help. Nor does it help that they are now nomadic, so there is no set location like a pride for them to return to. 

This makes getting a good picture of what is going on difficult so it may be a while before some of the bigger names in the animal tracking community start making obituaries. You are going to look pretty stupid if you post a video and he pops up a few days later in Kruger. 

On the other hand. Past behavoir indicates that atleast something big happened. As they are rarely seen apart for long periods of times and the remaining Avoca is seen with scars. 
If those images weren't there, we wouldn't even have this discussion. 

So we are stuck waiting now for the next sightings. But I think its safe to say that the Avoca era of Sabi Sands is coming to an end. 
Which is rather shocking as just over a year ago, they were still going strong with two coalitions totalling 5 lions. Now they are down to two nomadic lions of which one on its own.

At least they have many sons 2 Talamati Boys 4 Nkuhuma Boys the Lone Plains Camp male and I’m not sure how many of in the second sand river pride but I know at least 2 and the prides total is 11 lions Reply

[Horizon]

Leeubron males could be the cause of his disappearance. Presently, they are mating with Hamilton pride . Reply

[criollo2mil]

(09-01-2023, 01:31 AM)Duco Ndona Wrote: Its hard to say. The last sighting was a while ago, even before the sighting of the wounded brother alone. So sightings of the Avocas, alive or not are already very sporadic. That they are living right next to Kruger, where its normal for lions not to be seen for long periods does not help. Nor does it help that they are now nomadic, so there is no set location like a pride for them to return to. 

This makes getting a good picture of what is going on difficult so it may be a while before some of the bigger names in the animal tracking community start making obituaries. You are going to look pretty stupid if you post a video and he pops up a few days later in Kruger. 

On the other hand. Past behavoir indicates that atleast something big happened. As they are rarely seen apart for long periods of times and the remaining Avoca is seen with scars. 
If those images weren't there, we wouldn't even have this discussion. 

So we are stuck waiting now for the next sightings. But I think its safe to say that the Avoca era of Sabi Sands is coming to an end. 
Which is rather shocking as just over a year ago, they were still going strong with two coalitions totalling 5 lions. Now they are down to two nomadic lions of which one on its own.

Don’t count them out yet. Ablut 18 months ago when Xitaya the Nharhu was killed and left Skokorro alone, the also spelled his doom and end. He’s gone on to take over another Pride and sire new litters. So we never know. The Avocas are ten years old and there’s still a chance. Reply

[KM600]

(09-01-2023, 01:31 AM)Duco Ndona Wrote: Its hard to say. The last sighting was a while ago, even before the sighting of the wounded brother alone. So sightings of the Avocas, alive or not are already very sporadic. That they are living right next to Kruger, where its normal for lions not to be seen for long periods does not help. Nor does it help that they are now nomadic, so there is no set location like a pride for them to return to. 

This makes getting a good picture of what is going on difficult so it may be a while before some of the bigger names in the animal tracking community start making obituaries. You are going to look pretty stupid if you post a video and he pops up a few days later in Kruger. 

On the other hand. Past behavoir indicates that atleast something big happened. As they are rarely seen apart for long periods of times and the remaining Avoca is seen with scars. 
If those images weren't there, we wouldn't even have this discussion. 

So we are stuck waiting now for the next sightings. But I think its safe to say that the Avoca era of Sabi Sands is coming to an end. 
Which is rather shocking as just over a year ago, they were still going strong with two coalitions totalling 5 lions. Now they are down to two nomadic lions of which one on its own.

Too soon to say, SS isn’t full of massive coalitions, Mohawk especially is in a good position if he can form a coalition with his sons, he’s surrounded by coalitions that consist of no more than 2 members - even if some next powerhouse comes into SS and into the North he could always go into Manyeleti. Reply

[Tylermartin!]

I think it’s mostly because just like Mr T and kinky tail or Mohawk and blondie or the plains camp boys they are rarely alone and he’s been alone for weeks now and he was seen looking beaten up and also not with his pride something happened Reply

[Duco Ndona]

Mohawk and his Sons are a new coalition, not the continuation of the Avoca coalition. So he is unlikely to continue the family name.

His southern brothers only good chance is to join a new coalition. Perhaps with Nym. But that would also be new coalition and not the Avoca coalition.
Otherwise, unless his Brother comes back, there isnt a spot for a solitary male right now in Sabi sands. 

So yeah. After several strong years, once Trix24 updates the map. Its very unlikely to see the Avocas on there as a territoral coalition. Reply

[KM600]

(09-01-2023, 09:59 AM)Duco Ndona Wrote: Mohawk and his Sons are a new coalition, not the continuation of the Avoca coalition. So he is unlikely to continue the family name.

His southern brothers only good chance is to join a new coalition. Perhaps with Nym. But that would also be new coalition and not the Avoca coalition.
Otherwise, unless his Brother comes back, there isnt a spot for a solitary male right now in Sabi sands. 

So yeah. After several strong years, once Trix24 updates the map. Its very unlikely to see the Avocas on there as a territoral coalition.

I don’t think they’ll be given a name as one group, most likely just be known as the Avoca male Mohawk and the Nkuhuma males with given names, depending on how successful they are. The family name isn’t as important anyways, they carry the Avoca bloodline. Reply

[Duco Ndona]

If they become a notable territorial presence in a reserve . They will definitly be given their own seperate name. Mohawk and all. Reply

[criollo2mil]

The Most recent Tintswalo Safari profiles Mohawk and the Nkuhumas.

Note this footage is a few weeks old. Tintswalo has been running around 3-5 weeks be3hind in their releases.

Reply

[Mapokser]

@Horizon I also thought it could have been Leeubrons.

Both were competing for the same pride and soon after the Avoca video with Hamilton pride, maybe even in the very next photo/video, 1/2 male was alone and injured.

Though Leeubrons are only 2, and are potentially 2 years older than Avocas. Still massive and in good shape, but to beat such strong and younger duo so badly is a bit surprising. I thought Avocas might have left to not compete with Leeubrons but didn't thought they were at risk of losing a coalition partner.

Still we'll never know for sure. Reply

[Tylermartin!]

(09-01-2023, 04:09 PM)Duco Ndona Wrote: If they become a notable territorial presence in a reserve . They will definitly be given their own seperate name. Mohawk and all.

Wouldn’t this be the very first Nkuhuma coalition? Well the first large one I think blondie and Dozie where called the nkuhuma males but they weren’t born in the nkuhuma Pride I hope not at least Reply

[KM600]

(09-01-2023, 09:03 PM)criollo2mil Wrote: The Most recent Tintswalo Safari profiles Mohawk and the Nkuhumas.  

Note this footage is a few weeks old.  Tintswalo has been running around 3-5 weeks be3hind in their releases.  

That one at the start of the video seems to be as tall as Mohawk already. That one at 4:05 is going to be a big male, can already see the darkness coming thru in the lower part of his mane. Looking back at it, I think that’s the same male on both occasions. Reply

[Tr1x24]

There is no evidence that Leeubrons and S.Avocas clashed, or that S.Avocas where competing with them for Hamiltons pride, we dont know which female that was.

Also, report was they where on s36 "near" Hamiltons, what that "near" means its questionable, it might be 100 m, it might be 5 km. 

South of Hamiltons along s36 is Mantimahle sons territory.

Regardless of this, didnt someone said after that, that both where seen back near their old territory in the south? Reply

[criollo2mil]

(09-01-2023, 10:19 PM)Tylermartin! Wrote:

(09-01-2023, 04:09 PM)Duco Ndona Wrote: If they become a notable territorial presence in a reserve . They will definitly be given their own seperate name. Mohawk and all.

Wouldn’t this be the very first Nkuhuma coalition? Well the first large one I think blondie and Dozie where called the nkuhuma males but they weren’t born in the nkuhuma Pride I hope not at least

Second. Very true The Nkuhuma have been unfortunate to only produce single male coalitions since the Sizanani Brothers left the Pride. Reply

[KM600]

Got to say there’s something that still doesn’t make sense about this Southern Avoca situation, the general consensus is that the lesser-maned Avoca is now nomadic and was last seen in Sabi Sands in Mala Mala. The Nkhulus were last spotted around Sabi Sands I believe when they killed that Sand River sub-adult male, so if they’ve not been in Sabi Sands and as far as I know neither the Gijima males nor the NSW males have claimed the Sand River Pride, how is the remaining Southern Avoca nomadic. Unless the Sand River Pride has went into KNP, it doesn’t make sense why he wouldn’t be with them. Reply