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The Tumbela Coalition
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The male doesn't even have to be strong to survive these attacks, what may happen is that the lions lose interest or want to avoid injuries so they acertain their dominance and leave, or sometimes for apparently no reason at all they let the rival go. 4 Majingis caught a Selati, beat him badly after trying to take over for years, but then suddenly let him go.
If the lions go for the kill and are very motivated then 2v1 is too much for any lion, but thing is, rarely the attackers are that motivated. Also in 2v1 I think it's difficult to break the spine, generally they need more numbers to do it, lions killed or badly injured in 2v1, generally die from overall injuries ( 5th Majingis ) or starve from a destroyed leg ( Nhenha ).  (07-30-2023, 01:17 AM)Mapokser Wrote: The male doesn't even have to be strong to survive these attacks, what may happen is that the lions lose interest or want to avoid injuries so they acertain their dominance and leave, or sometimes for apparently no reason at all they let the rival go. 4 Majingis caught a Selati, beat him badly after trying to take over for years, but then suddenly let him go. Something like that I guess… 
I am starting to think it really is situational. A lot of times Nomad lions seem to be the ones that escape. I also think sometimes it's the lion themselves that decides if this is the time to die and how much they are going to push back to see if they do. I don't think Strength, or size or whatever has anything to do with it. How many times have we seen lions that for whatever reason have survived for years a certain way and then all of the sudden they are gone. Is it because the lions they tripped over for the 100th time in their lives just said this is the time I am going to kill them, or is it because that lion themself finally said.. I've had enough, this is where it ends. I think territory plays a part too. An old lion that is left defending a pride by themselves just says screw it.. This is my home, I'm not moving off, so you end me, or move off yourself.
I think we don't always view animals in this sort of way. I think generally we think they are dumb (I mean we as humans), when the reality is likely amazingly different. These creatures are likely smarter than we are when it comes to their world and their place in it. They don't have that self importance, and certainly have different values than we do. 
I doubt that just willpower is enough to shake off a rival coalition ripping up your spine.
The prime aged male lions we see are just a small percentage of the countless of young males that survive to that point. They are the ones that are smart, strong and resourcefull enough to keep themselves out of the mauls where the rest disapears in. So it makes sense that we see them surviving fights multiple times. Sabi Sands also seems to be going through a more peacefull period of lots of smaller coalitions. Which tend to be more carefull and have less frustration to vent. So less fights ending up with straight forward kills. But with this peacefull period, more male cubs make it to adult hood so we are starting to see bigger groups again. So If this hunch is correct, we will soon enter a period of more fights ending in death. 
@Mapokser yes, PC males are not motivated to eliminate males who are bothering and hanging with their females for 1 year, gotch ya, they will let him go so he can hang with them next day..
Idk why they didnt let Nhenha go?? They prob didnt like Nhenha, while they like Tumbela and NK. I dont care about reports, because all those reports are "speculations" and forced narratives by guides or guests. Out of all these reports, there are 0 visuals and evidence of these fights (because actual fights didnt even happen, reports are mostly about chases). (07-30-2023, 04:16 AM)Tr1x24 Wrote: @Mapokser yes, PC males are not motivated to eliminate males who are bothering and hanging with their females for 1 year, gotch ya, they will let him go so he can hang with them next day.. Yes, that's how lions behave, we may not understand why they let rivals go when it'd benefit them a lot to put the effort to kill them, but they do, why are you ignoring all the examples I'm giving of this happening? Again, Mapogos ( PCM of the time ) allowed the Rollercoaster ( Tumbela at the time ) to go after catching him, despite the situation being the same with RC hanging with Styx and Sparta prides, they allowed the second Manyeleti male escape after killing the first, Avocas let Dreadlocks go despite facing 7 males, recently in Mara the 3 Sankais beat one of the 4 northern males pressuring them for months, but he escaped with his life, Majingilanes trying to take over the Selatis for years, caught one 4v1 and allowed him to go, it's how it is. You don't care about reports? Forced narratives by guides? What can I even tell you if you think guides are lying to us? All information comes from them and their guests, we can't start conspiracy theories saying the guides are making stuff up. Tumbela reported to have been attacked by the PCM:  *This image is copyright of its original author His next sighting:  *This image is copyright of its original author I guess he magically got that puncture on his back after being reportedly attacked by PCM? Or what, will you say a random lioness showed up and bit his back? Or maybe it was a leopard? Then he eventually disappears again after being last seen by guides chased by the PCM close to the Ximhungwe densite where a commotion happened. He takes a while to show up again, but when he does his back is heavily scarred:  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author What you're gonna say, that he scratched his back a bit too hard against the grass?
Since the argument that Tumbela couldn't have been attacked is that if he was, he'd be dead, and claims of such fights are made up narratives by the guides, let me illustrate other occasions when males were attacked but survived ( I hope it's not also claimed to be false narrative by the rangers, here shouldn't be the place for conspiracies ):
Northern Mara male survived and recovered recently from 1v3 against the Sankai males sired by Olerai and Olekiti:  *This image is copyright of its original author Rollercoaster surviving 2 Mapogos in 2008 reported by Mala Mala, the Rollercoaster fully recovered ( that if he had any serious injuries at all ):  *This image is copyright of its original author Mapogos were trying to get rid of the Rollercoaster since 2005. 2 Mbiris catch and beat 1/3 young Nharu male, but let him go and he fully recovers:  *This image is copyright of its original author Video of the post-fight: 4 Majingilanes beat a Selati male in a takeover attempt in 2014, Majingis were trying to take over since 2012, reported by western guides, there were photos too, the Selati walked off and recovered btw:  *This image is copyright of its original author But I guess the PCM are way too mighty and unlike the weak Mapogos, Mbiris, Sankais and Majingilanes, would never allow a rival male to escape with his life... or everything I shared are false narratives by the guides and never actually happened, in fact, it's impossible to survive a 1v2! This totally doesn't happen all the time! 
I heard Tumbela was with the Othawa subs last week, I wonder if it's true.
 (07-30-2023, 10:18 PM)Mapokser Wrote: @Potato wait I thought Nharus and River males were the same lions... Well still the argument holds as the male escaped alive. There is Klaserie River pride from which Nharhu originated and there is Timbavati River pride which Nharhus took over. Timbavati River pride used to have 5 sub adult males before Nharhus took over. It is one of those 5 young males on a video shown by you who was atacked by Mbiri males.
Tumbela still ailing w that leg
“Two Rhinos end the perfect view of a male Lion after sunset. The Tumbela male got up very gingerly after a long day of rest. This limp was due to an earlier minor injury, and has since come right #reels #sunset #dulini”  (08-01-2023, 01:04 AM)criollo2mil Wrote: Tumbela still ailing w that leg Wao, I hope this boy doesn't get caught by any coalition. Thank u for the update bro! |
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