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The Tumbela Coalition
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People overestimate the PCmales.
They arent that interested in western sector. At most western they seem to be only interested in the Ximhungwes. But even that interest doesn't go far enough to properly take them over. Afteral how else could several rivals live nearly unopposed overthere. A coalition settling down in the deep west, provided they leave the Ximhungwes alone. Would have, beyond the occasional accidental meeting little opposition. Taking over the Ximhungwes is not a prerequisite for taking over the Othawas. The Ximhungwes would likely move east again in such circumstances. 
@Duco Ndona are you saying that there is room for another coalition there?
Thats definetly not the case, as PC males showed several times towards Birminghams (even Tumbela before them), once some coalition/males there makes noise, PC males immidiately react, they showed clearly they dont want to share that area. Why NK and Tumbela are still there and occasionaly with Ximhungwes? 2 reasons. 1. They are low profile (once they make noise, or PC males find them, they are out). 2. PC males control vast territory and 3 prides, as only 2 males, they also dont split themselves between them (leaving room for other males to sneak in to Ximhungwes when they are absent, if there was 1 male always with Xinhungwes, ofc NK/Tumbela wuldnt do what they do). I disagree that they are not interested that much in wester sector, since this year and "Nhenha" fight ,they are seen in western sector quite regulary (far more then before), and quite rearly in far eastern part of their territory as western Londolozi , since Nhenha fight, they where only 1 time seen there, as far as we know. (03-16-2023, 11:53 PM)Mapokser Wrote: Now imagine the non-related ruthless and expansionist PCM, they have no reason to tolerate any opposition in the West, Yes, as they didnt. Idk from where people think that there is room for another territorial male/coalition there. PC males clearly showed that there isnt.
Those clashes are over the Ximhungwe pride. Not over the Othawas.
And again. If the PCmales really were so territorial over the west. Then why havent they dealth with Skorro and Nym yet. Both of those have been doing plenty to warrant a beating and are just solo males they know wont put up much of a fight. There is no reason to believe they would be forced to fight if a new coalition were to settle down in the west. If the opposition is strong enough. They will more than likely settle for the prides they have in Singita and leave the west be. (Naturally Skorro and Nym would be ran off aswell.) There have been times before where Singita and western sector were ruled by different male lions before afteral. 
@Duco Ndona There's nothing about overestimating, as long as PCM hears roars west of them, they'll go deal with it, regardless if Ximhungwes are involved or not.
@Tr1x24 I mean there is land and prides for 2 coalitions for sure, it's a big area that has been shared before. Issue is that PCM claimed all the land and won't accept any neighbors if they are not strong enough to keep them at bay. At the beginning they more or less accepted Tumbelas but when figured Tumbelas got weakened they started pressuring them.
If either Tumbelas or Bboys had been strong enough they could have held the area but PCM won't give it away if they know the opposition isn't strong enough to match them. 
You need two equally matched coalitions for them to co-exist in the west. Coalitions sometimes chase each other miles out of their normal territory and a weaker coalition on the boundary will always be easy to corner. It's just too easy and enticing for an aggressive coalition like the PCs to barge in when they know no one really has the chance or the numbers to stand up to them. We need a strong duo in the west to be able to hold the Othawa pride and keep the PCs somewhat in check.
Even the PCmales have their limits. Throw a strong enough coalition in there and I doubt they would just march in and deal with it.
That they do so currently is enterily due to their rivals being pushovers (03-17-2023, 04:07 AM)Duco Ndona Wrote: Those clashes are over the Ximhungwe pride. Not over the Othawas. Even before, in early 2022 PC males invaded and attacked Othawas and Tumbela, even if Birminghams didnt get involved, its 99% that PC males would oust Tumbela and attack Othawas. (03-17-2023, 04:07 AM)Duco Ndona Wrote: Then why havent they dealth with Skorro and Nym yet. Both of those have been doing plenty to warrant a beating and are just solo males they know wont put up much of a fight. ?? They are dealing with them for almost 1 year, attacking and chasing them everytime they find them. (03-17-2023, 04:07 AM)Duco Ndona Wrote: There have been times before where Singita and western sector were ruled by different male lions before afteral 2 solo males, never a 2 coalitions of more members. Wester sector is definetly too small to be ruled by 2 coalitions. Even when HB and OM ruled this area, HB was pretty much alone in western sector, OM only had small territory south around Savanna. (03-17-2023, 10:50 AM)Duco Ndona Wrote: Even the PCmales have their limits. Throw a strong enough coalition in there and I doubt they would just march in and deal with it. We dont know that. If stronger coalition from PC males emerged in western sector (lets say coalition of 3,4), its very likely they would try to oust PC males from Singita and united that whole territory as PC males did. There is just not enough pride and females in this area atm to sustain 2 coalitions of 4,5,6 males in total.
Chasing them around is not the same as dealing with them.
Most of the time, the Ximhungwes are not in PCmales control, mostly becouse the pride is not interesting enough for the PCmales apparently. Sure this may change once the next litter of cubs dies and there may be mating opportunities. But its a hard stretch to say that the PCmales have a strong hold in the west. Otherwise Skorro and Nym would be gone by now. Lions dont care about the size of the land or prides they hold aslong they get what they want. And we know western sector can sustain such numbers.. The Gijimas have an even smaller pride under their control and you dont see them confronting other groups. Sure. If one group was bigger than the other they may drive eachother out as its always better to have more. But if equal enough. They are far more likely to accept their limits than risk a fight. (03-17-2023, 08:25 PM)Duco Ndona Wrote: Chasing them around is not the same as dealing with them. I said what is the reason. PC males are only 2 and control 2 other prides besides Ximhungwes, meaning they cant be 24/7 with 1 pride. Thats the only reason why NK/Tumbela are still occasionaly with Ximhungwes. When PC males return to Ximhungwes, those 2 are gone. Idk how do you expect from PC males to deal more with NK/Tumbela? Only way is to be 24/7 with Ximhungwes, wich is impossible for 2 males who control 2 more prides and such vast territory. PC males are 100% in charge of western sector. (03-17-2023, 08:25 PM)Duco Ndona Wrote: Lions dont care about the size of the land or prides they hold aslong they get what they want. And we know western sector can sustain such numbers. They are not much different than today. Just swab Skorro and Nym for a stronger duo and the Othawas for adults "Can sustain" is diffrent then what it is now, Othawas are gone, only 2 subs left which territorial males have no interest in. You have pretty much only 2 adult females in Ximhungwes in western sector, obiviosly 2 territorial coalitions cant control 1 pride, so unless PC males are completly chased out of western sector, 2 coalitions CANT sustain in western sector atm.
If they are already struggling to keep Nym and Skorro away from the Ximhungwes most of the time. I find it hard to believe they would do much if a coalition roughly equal in strenght takes over the Othawas if they desire so.
And if Skorro sees value in hanging out with them. Other males might aswell. They are still lionesses hunting food they can grab. So we cant just count them out becouse they are still just subadults. They wont be forever.
Only reason Skorro Jr hangs with Othawa is because he's the father, any other male would attack them. And even him leaves every time he feels he can get Ximhungwes.
They are far from a proper pride to be taken over.
Skorro abandoned the subs for 5 months. He did not come back suddenly becouse he wants to be their father. He wanted a pride.
Ultimately its a point that wont last anyway as the older they grow, the more likely they will be seen as matured lionesses. Soon the Othawas wil be old enough.
@Duco Ndona
I dont think you understand the difference between a "real adult pride" (Ximhungwes) and what are 2 Othawa subs now, these things are not the same. Othawa subs are "not" a pride really , they are just ~2 year old nomadic females whos only goal at this stage is to survive. They dont have any "value" in other territorial or even unrelated nomadic males eyes. They are not ready for mating (wont be for another 1.5-2 yrs) , meaning that any territorial male will straight kill them at this point. Far more older females then this 2 get killed by other males because they are not ready to mate (Snip Tailed Talamati female was more then 1 year older then this 2 when she got killed by PC males). As for nomadic males, especially adult males like NK , he also would find pretty much no "value" in hanging with 2 sub Othawas, only "value" would be food , and at this point, even alone he is still far better hunter then them, so they would only eat his share of his kill. Tumbela is occasionally hanging with 2 sub Othawas only because they know each others from the past (thats why we dont see NK male with Othawa subs), and they live in the same area, meaning they encounter each others occasionaly on kills and then hang together for few days (they are not together all the time). Tumbela male, definetly, 100% doesnt hang with 2 subs because he thinks he controls them or idk wants a pride, no, he hangs with them only because they are 2 nomads who know each others from the past. He will, and did, abandon them for a "real" pride , Ximhungwes, in a heartbeat. |
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