There is a world somewhere between reality and fiction. Although ignored by many, it is very real and so are those living in it. This forum is about the natural world. Here, wild animals will be heard and respected. The forum offers a glimpse into an unknown world as well as a room with a view on the present and the future. Anyone able to speak on behalf of those living in the emerald forest and the deep blue sea is invited to join.
(10-19-2022, 01:04 PM)criollo2mil Wrote: I get a feeling the reunion with their mother is imminent
“They came pass our lodge running chased by the Ximhungwe lionesses, what surprised us is when the Breakaway female get closer to them (3 meters)away from the one she stop and they look at each with no tension, that shows they have feelings of being related .they finally got away from that to rejoin and went even further with no injuries,the Othawa female was not far much from there maybe they will rejoin during the day.still no sign of the Birmingham in the west #inyatigamelodge
Credit: Diff Marimane
(screenshots. Sorry for quality)
Whoa, that screenshot of 2 of them alongside each other, shows how much smaller one is to the other! There's really too much of a size difference between the two of them as supposed, 'littermates.' I'm inclined to believe that at least one is from the older Othawa Lioness. The coloring among all 3 is not the same, either. The angle of the shot gives a much more accurate size difference, as opposed to some other clips we've seen.... But anyway, it's not as important as hoping that at least one of them survive to build up their pride again! Maybe with luck, they can breathe a little sigh of relief as the Birmingham Males might not return....or as frequently. Now, I'm worried for the Tumbela Male.... Hope the PC Males don't catch him, but have a bad feeling if he continues to hang around the Ximhungwe Pride. He really needs to leave asap. He does more harm than good hanging by them and especially anywhere close to the Othawa Females. The best thing he could do for them is to disappear as his presence could trigger more aggression against the subs by association!
10-19-2022, 07:12 PM( This post was last modified: 10-20-2022, 04:18 AM by criollo2mil )
(10-19-2022, 07:04 PM)Cath2020 Wrote:
(10-19-2022, 01:04 PM)criollo2mil Wrote: I get a feeling the reunion with their mother is imminent
“They came pass our lodge running chased by the Ximhungwe lionesses, what surprised us is when the Breakaway female get closer to them (3 meters)away from the one she stop and they look at each with no tension, that shows they have feelings of being related .they finally got away from that to rejoin and went even further with no injuries,the Othawa female was not far much from there maybe they will rejoin during the day.still no sign of the Birmingham in the west #inyatigamelodge
Credit: Diff Marimane
(screenshots. Sorry for quality)
Whoa, that screenshot of 2 of them alongside each other, shows how much smaller one is to the other! There's really too much of a size difference between the two of them as supposed, 'littermates.' I'm inclined to believe that at least one is from the older Othawa Lioness. The coloring among all 3 is not the same, either. The angle of the shot gives a much more accurate size difference, as opposed to some other clips we've seen.... But anyway, it's not as important as hoping that at least one of them survive to build up their pride again! Maybe with luck, they can breathe a little sigh of relief as the Birmingham Males might not return....or as frequently. Now, I'm worried for the Tumbela Male.... Hope the PC Males don't catch him, but have a bad feeling if he continues to hang around the Ximhungwe Pride. He really needs to leave asap. He does more harm than good hanging by them and especially anywhere close to the Othawa Females. The best thing he could do for them is to disappear as his presence could trigger more aggression against the subs by association!
There’s definitely a stark difference in size . But that’s the tallest next to the shortest so it makes it very striking. The one w the slight injury is in the middle size wise. EDIT: the one w the injury is actually the smallest.
One thing we can take solace regarding the Othowas is that despite the sub adults being separated from their mom, they have proven several times to be self-reliant. Here are screen captures of them on an impala kill.
“Unfortunately we only got to see them after dark and we had to use a spotlight for viewing the Othawa subs eating an impala then left to go see mom which was not even a KM away also with a full belly walking further away from the subs ,hopefully they will meet soon either tonight or tomorrow #inyatigamelodge Diff Marimane”
10-20-2022, 11:34 PM( This post was last modified: 10-20-2022, 11:47 PM by criollo2mil )
Sassy has been spotted, looking very much improved. Here are captures of Leo Bosch as she fended off some hyenas long enough to get herself a good belly full.
“ Playful antics from the Ottawa pride from a more peaceful time.
The Ottawa pride are in a difficult position at the moment, jostling and dodging the Plains Camp males and now even getting chased by the Ximungwe pride! Interesting times ahead!
Othawa sub females still didnt reunite with Sassy :
Them not reuniting with their mother for such a long period, despite being in the same area, is starting to become concerning.
Sassy is going thru lot recently, losing her 2 aunts, losing territory, being attacked/mauled/ injured several times, hunting/feeding subs, all things new to her .. Her stress lvl is prob pretty high and she is having rough times.
I hope all this things wont let to her just straight up avoiding and eventually "ditching" remaining subs. This is not unheard of in such "difficult" and unstable times (remember Mhangenis few years back..).
That scenario would be disaster, so lets hope that isnt the case and that they will reunite soon.
(10-23-2022, 05:12 AM)Tr1x24 Wrote: I hope all this things wont let to her just straight up avoiding and eventually "ditching" remaining subs. This is not unheard of in such "difficult" and unstable times (remember Mhangenis few years back..).
That scenario would be disaster, so lets hope that isnt the case and that they will reunite soon.
It looks like sub adults are doing good on their own, possibly do not need support of older Othawa female anymore.
10-23-2022, 02:42 PM( This post was last modified: 10-23-2022, 02:44 PM by Tr1x24 )
(10-23-2022, 01:43 PM)Potato Wrote: It looks like sub adults are doing good on their own, possibly do not need support of older Othawa female anymore.
They are doing good for now, but will it last?
Mhangenis where 12 around the same age, few even older, they where also initially doing great on their own for few months, but eventually they almost all died in less then a year, except 3 who joined prides (they would prob also died if they didnt do so).
So yea, they are doing fine for now, catching and stealing few kills, but can they do that on consistent lvl for half a year - year? Until they got bigger, stronger and more experienced? Without anything happening to them? Like hyenas, other lions, fail hunts, etc..
Also, im not sure i know any case where lion (regardless if alone or in group) of just 1.5 yrs of age, managed to survive to adulthood alone.
I mean, as a group of 3, they could in theory survive, but chances are not great, they would need a lot of luck.
I am not as worried about a Mhangeni 12 scenario.
That was an enormous group of 12 lions. By the time they figured out how to properly hunt and distribute food the best it was already too late, and starvation took its toll. The presence of male lions also complicated matters.
This is just a group of 3. All of which lionesses. Enough members to cooperate in the hunt and use some tactics. While few enough to bridge the gaps between meals due to inexperience on one kill alone.
I am more concerned how this will influence the dynamics. Those subs probably don't have much of a confidence if it comes to confronting rival prides so may be chased out of their territory. Leaving Sassy alone.
Which would be disastrous as for the Othawas its absolutely crucial these subs join the pride. If they want to have any hope to compete with the Ximhungwes number wise. Even worse, in a few years these subs may just become another rival pride.
(10-23-2022, 02:42 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote: Mhangenis where 12 around the same age, few even older, they where also initially doing great
No, they did not. They were uncapable of hunting for themselfs. They were on the brink of starvation when they made their first kill (buffalo cow). From that point they were doing better, but they were never doing good. The last of them (aside of females which rejoined the core pride) were also starving when they joined to Nkuchuma pride. Othawa subs are different. They so far seem to be capable of feeding for themselfs. They look to be in great shape and were already seen making their own kill.
(10-23-2022, 02:42 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote: Until they got bigger, stronger and more experienced? Without anything happening to them? Like hyenas, other lions, fail hunts, etc..
That always is and will be a danger and presence of older Othawa female doesn't change there much. They still would be small pride, in a danger from other prides and males and still hyenas with proper numbers could push them around.
I think this is one of the incredible(followed)threads we have here. It has legs…Mhangenis subs is a great parallel sighted but like Potato says these guys are there/almost there. They seem to be opportunistic, the threat now could be other lions only.
10-23-2022, 06:55 PM( This post was last modified: 10-23-2022, 07:01 PM by Duco Ndona )
The fate of the Ximhungwe pride also comes to mind. Its rather ironic that we may be looking at a repeat of that. Just with the prides reversed.
It's worth remembering that the history of these prides we have only goes back a few decades. With the weird smaller groups only being monitored as intensely as we do now for a few years. We may just haven't seen the lower age limits of survival yet. There may be cases where subs were written off as death due to their youth in one end of the reserve. Only for them to pop up as a new mystery pride elsewhere.
I believe its too early go assume that Othawa subs will become completely on their own, as Sassy was still seen recently in the same area. Since they are capable of surviving a few momghs on their own, that is more then enough time for them to find Sassy. If they comtinue staying in the west sector, I think it will only be a matter of time before they reunite.
In case they do reunite, maybe the whole pride can surive if something like what happened to the Southern pride happens. Whenever Sassy goes into oestrus again, its possible that the new dominant males adopt the 3 subs. But this will be unlikely as I dont know any other cases execpt for Gijimas and SP.
