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Modern weights and measurements on wild tigers
Modern weights and measurements on wild tigers
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Modern weights and measurements on wild tigers
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 (10-06-2022, 09:52 PM)GuateGojira Wrote:(10-04-2022, 06:33 PM)abhisingh7 Wrote: in the video (madla capture) chundawat was seen measuring madla , you should try to contact chundawat and get measurements and final words to end this debate on madla . (10-07-2022, 12:52 AM)Pckts Wrote:(10-07-2022, 12:44 AM)abhisingh7 Wrote:(10-06-2022, 09:55 PM)Pckts Wrote:(10-06-2022, 09:33 PM)Khan85 Wrote: Waghdoh's PM report yeah dead body swells , it would increase the weight by 20-30kg , but prime wagdoh see here , chest girth looks larger than p243 or p111 , https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqLmMMYIPMQ .  (10-06-2022, 11:20 PM)Ashutosh Wrote: @GuateGojira, he was 19 years old when he died not 13-15. He was one of the oldest surviving tigers that we knew about and unlike Machli, he wasn’t propped up artificially with live bait. Oh, ok, my bad. Even then, my claim is still supported, specially now that we know that he was older than what I tought. (10-06-2022, 10:21 PM)GuateGojira Wrote:whats ur view on bloating guate , how much it can increase the weight ?(10-06-2022, 09:55 PM)Pckts Wrote: Again the verbiage of "approx" is concerning. (10-06-2022, 09:54 PM)GuateGojira Wrote:(10-06-2022, 09:33 PM)Khan85 Wrote: Waghdoh's PM report It is 270kg.
A bodylength of 208cm with one of the bulkiest frames and yet a weight of just 250kg in his prime? That's very unlikely.
We can do some simple isometric calculations with the 208cm bodylength to estimate his prime weight (I'm using bodylength because it has the best correlation with weight and also because Wagdoh's chest girth would have shrunk in old age) The isometric calculation gives a weight of 288kg using a 190cm, 220kg Tiger as surrogate and 278kg using a 190cm, 212kg Tiger as surrogate. And even if I make the most strict calculation with a 190cm, 200kg Tiger (which should cause an underestimation), it still gives 262kg. So logically speaking, from the body length given in this document, I don't think there's any way his prime weight could be as low as 250kg. That's just too low UNLESS THE LENGTH MENTIONED WAS TAKEN OVER THE CURVES (which is also very unlikely). (10-07-2022, 02:58 AM)abhisingh7 Wrote:(10-06-2022, 10:21 PM)GuateGojira Wrote:whats ur view on bloating guate , how much it can increase the weight ?(10-06-2022, 09:55 PM)Pckts Wrote: Again the verbiage of "approx" is concerning. Bloating does not increase weight. All it does is cause the body to swell up. It's similar to a filled baloon. Maybe bloating increases weight by a few hundred grams or maybe even less but that's so miniscule it's not even worth counting.  (10-07-2022, 05:12 AM)LonePredator Wrote: A bodylength of 208cm with one of the bulkiest frames and yet a weight of just 250kg in his prime? No way. That's very unlikely.Your claim is extremely flawed. You have numerous Tigers who are longer, taller and thicker with weights of 230kgs or less. (10-07-2022, 09:58 AM)Pckts Wrote:(10-07-2022, 05:12 AM)LonePredator Wrote: A bodylength of 208cm with one of the bulkiest frames and yet a weight of just 250kg in his prime? No way. That's very unlikely.Your claim is extremely flawed. And your claim is not? From what I remember you once claimed that Wagdoh is just an average Tiger with an average frame and you even started arguing with someone about it. And in this case we can say with simple common sense that he was over 270kg in his prime. His dying, unhealthy body weighed 270kg and you are saying he was only 250kg in his prime? And now coming to your other claim. Any healthy, non-emaciated male Bengal Tiger that measures 208cm in body length in straight line, 101cm tall and 140cm+ chest girth in its prime, measured normally will never weigh ‘less than 230kg’. The only exceptions are some faulty numbers about the weights and measurements from old records which don’t add up. Guate and others even pointed out some of those old records where the numbers didn’t add up. Even in modern records the numbers sometimes don’t add up or are not taken by the standard method. You remember MB2 who was ‘127cm’ in shoulder height?? Do you really think he was 127cm in shoulder height? You must have the common sense to understand that the measurement might have been taken differently or have flaws (in case of some old records) when the numbers don’t add up. Have you ever seen the regression graph that was made by TigerLuver which showed the correlation between body length and body mass?? I bet you’ve never seen it because if you did, you wouldn’t say such things. You should educate yourself more on this topic before calling my ‘claims’ ‘extremely flawed’. (10-07-2022, 09:58 AM)Pckts Wrote:(10-07-2022, 05:12 AM)LonePredator Wrote: A bodylength of 208cm with one of the bulkiest frames and yet a weight of just 250kg in his prime? No way. That's very unlikely.Your claim is extremely flawed. The most unbelievable thing about your claim is that you seem to be implying that a Tiger can be longer, taller and thicker than another Tiger but still weigh less. That’s what you are implying, aren’t you?? So basically you are implying that one Tiger can have wayy higher volume than another Tiger but still weigh less than the other Tiger? Then for your information, what you are implying is simply *impossible*. You don’t even need any complex knowledge of physics or biology to realise this. All Tigers are made of flesh and blood and bones. It’s not like one Tiger is made of metal and the other is made of flesh. All Tigers are basically made up of the same matter. Things such as Body composition and bone density (basically BMI) can make minimal differences but they are negligible and not nearly enough to make up for huge volume differences between the two specimens unless the Tiger is extremely fat or emaciated. And even then BMI in Tigers probably doesn’t even vary as much as it does in humans. Do you think it’s possible for a man who is 6’3” and has the same physique as Brock Lesnar to weigh 70kg?? No, it’s not possible. It defies all science. To conclude: What you are describing is simply impossible according to science. And this is not the first time you are making unscientific claims. You have once previously claimed that Jaguars are ‘denser’ than Tigers just because they have shorter legs. You should think about what you are speaking because your claims are just defying all proven science. 
Ashutosh wrote:
Quote:I don’t know how specifically big cats age and at what rate do their height and width shrink (of course varies upon individuals), but surely there is some loss there too. And, in case of Waghdoh that loss would be more pronounced considering how long he lived. in tiger years, Wagdoh was pretty much like a great Grandpa at the time of his death so it’s no surprise that he wasn’t the same male that he was during his prime days. Wagdoh also happened to be one of the bulkiest old male tiger that i have personally seen. Quote:Just for reference sake, look at his son Shiva, who himself at 12 years old is really thick. Shiva looks a bit longer and taller than his father, but, Waghdoh in his prime was definitely heftier of the two. I always had the same opinion, Shiva in true fashion was the real protege child of Wagdoh in every aspect.  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author he was on a whole new level last winter and pre summer 2021.  (10-07-2022, 05:12 AM)LonePredator Wrote: A bodylength of 208cm with one of the bulkiest frames and yet a weight of just 250kg in his prime? That's very unlikely. You are spot on in your estimation. There is absolutely no doubt he is 300kg specimen at his prime. A record holder tiger. His body length is 11cm longer than 261kg Sauraha male. I always said Wagdoh is a long body male, massive in bulk, measurements. Obviously some people have preconceived biased opinion that tadoba tigers are smaller, shorter than other park tiger. They can't digest this. It must be a good lesson for them.  If Wagdoh can weigh 270kg at 19 years of age, then easily add another 50kg to his prime weight. No rocket science here.
(10-07-2022, 11:49 AM)LonePredator Wrote:(10-07-2022, 09:58 AM)Pckts Wrote:(10-07-2022, 05:12 AM)LonePredator Wrote: A bodylength of 208cm with one of the bulkiest frames and yet a weight of just 250kg in his prime? No way. That's very unlikely.Your claim is extremely flawed. What are you talking about? You claimed at his body length he’d be a minimum of 250kg or more. You have numerous cats who are longer than him who weighed 230kg or less. These cats were also thicker in the chest and/or taller in the shoulder. Any additional weight for your interpretation of “girth” hold no water since that’s a personal opinion and nothing to do with verifiable proof. Obviously you don’t understand how to correctly use your equation or likes been proven many times before, it’s not valid for determining big cat size. 
I don't know if its just me , but I can't view majority of the pics posted by you @Roflcopters . Its just showing here - 'This image is copyright of its original author'.
Pckts pointed out a pretty key thing here. The dead body swells up and is bloated,if you look at the pictures of Wagdoh after his death he clearly was puffed up. I wonder how much weight that added. I am not an expert in this category but am guessing about 20-30kgs pretty easily no?. Another example is KF from Kanha,when he died his body was super puffed up and made him look much heavier than he actually was.
Also pckts is right in saying the measurments of Wagdoh do not really give off a 270kgs Cat. Also the puffiness of Wagdoh after death Definately played a role in making his chest measure thicker than it actually is. His chest could have been around 130 or less in normal circumstances (but no doubt prime wagdoh would have had thicker chest) but now that his chest measured 136cm (after looking pretty swollen) I think it's safe to take away about 6cm??. Also please make the number clear,is it 210? 240? Or 270? That "7" is a little weird. Anyways this was my take on this and what I thought of it personally. (10-07-2022, 04:18 PM)GreenForest Wrote:(10-07-2022, 05:12 AM)LonePredator Wrote: A bodylength of 208cm with one of the bulkiest frames and yet a weight of just 250kg in his prime? That's very unlikely.  *This image is copyright of its original author Sauraha male was notoriously short and dense, it’s possible Wagdoh is of similar build and while Wagdoh was was longer he was most likely less in the shoulder and was less in the chest. There are numerous Tigers that outsize Sauraha or Wagdoh by a good margin. Whether discussing Length and/or Chest girth or both. Outside of Length/chest/height the only other factors that’ll contribute to weight are abdominal girth and limb gurth. Neck and skull are a much smaller contributor. Wagdoh was never a very large limbed cat like Raja or Uma in terms of muscle density but he did have a large abdominal region when full but it also could shrink like any other cat when empty like you see above or below  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author He was a notorious cattle killer “at least later in his life” which also can contribute to being overweight. All things considered he’s a big Tiger, no doubt and I’m not saying otherwise but he’s certainly not close to the biggest. In regards to Tadoba having smaller Tigers there’s no debate. This is factual, you have multiple researchers and hunters discussing this, guides who’ve seen both and modern day weights and measurements. Wagdoh is a big cat, no doubt and Tigers can get big no matter the location but it’s not with the same frequency nor the same body composition. And it’s not just the males but the females as well, Tadoba females are notoriously small, especially compared to their Sal Forest cousins. |
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