There is a world somewhere between reality and fiction. Although ignored by many, it is very real and so are those living in it. This forum is about the natural world. Here, wild animals will be heard and respected. The forum offers a glimpse into an unknown world as well as a room with a view on the present and the future. Anyone able to speak on behalf of those living in the emerald forest and the deep blue sea is invited to join.
(11-19-2020, 03:17 AM)Slayerd Wrote: I've got a question for everybody. Recently the Birmingham Young Male lion was names Osindile which means 'survivor' in Zulu. A worthy name for the young male who had to survive the Ross Males and his leg injury that nearly killed him. Down south, in Sabi Sands, the Nkuhuma Young Male also had to face his own hardships and had to survive. He was also forced to face dominant male lions and on occasion, had to fight them to survive. He lost his mother and partner and had to look after himself for almost a year. The stress led to him losing condition and his mane until he found the Styx Pride. He is also a true Survivor of the bush. Both Males have similar stories and are similar in age but in your opinion, who had a much harsher life they had to survive through?
I would definitely say BYM had more harsh life. I do not think at all Nkuchuma male had particularly harash life for a male lion, rather around standard one. What it comes to pointing out lions around who I would say had harash life then I would go with:
1. Belly Scar N'was - It is rather obvious that with such injury he has life must be/must have been harash, esspecially through out nomadic stage.
2. Mhangeni 12 - Sub adults from which 2 lionesses had survived. Rather we all know the story of those going through constant hunger. Moreover one of them quite recently had very bad injury to her leg. She lost all the muscle on her leg and it looked like she might not survive much longer, but she fully recovered.
3. BIrmingham young male - He had very bad injury, from which many (great most?) believed he will never recover and with the pressure from Ross males he won't survive.
Then honorable mentions:
1. Xikukutsu male - The male who carried rough injury, possibly gorged by buffalo after which he lost most of his mane which indicates also big loses of condition. Hopefully tho lions like him, in physical prime are very resistant and he made full recover. Why I did put him in list over is that he had back up in terms of food source in forms of his blood brother, Monwana and Avoca prides and had no preasure on him from dominant males in the arena like BYM had.
2. Mbiri males - They were forced into nomadic life while they very just 2 and half years old or somewhere just a bit above that, by the new dominant males in the pride (Thanda Impis). Moreover one of them was killed by the dominant males around Orpen Gate. That is very difficult start for a male lions and why I did not put them in list above is that they did surprisingly great for the position they were put into. 3. Tumbela males - Those guys clearly had very rough nomadic life, facing constant hunger and losing two brothers in that stage of their life. Why I did not put them in the list above is that they spent quite a lot of time with their natal pride. They definitelly did not had rough start. I do not know what really went wrong for them. At their age they should have been able to feed for themselfs especially since they were in quite big group which makes hunt easier.
Why not Nkuchuma male even in the mentions list? First he had 3 years of easy life with natal pride. Then Avocas came. The were tolerating him tho for a couple of months before the put a preassure and when they did so, it hasn't been as rough as whatRoss males did to Birmingham male. He left pride at around 3,5 years old. Then he had few months of nomadic life in which he wasn't doing particularly bad. Then he linked up with Styx pride and his life became even easier. I would stay that is what in avarage wild lion gets from the life.
That's a great choice.
Anyway,I often think that the Xikukutsu male didn't had a hard life. Those two never became nomadic and had to move out by unwanted areas with dominant males constantly roaring and chasing them off. It's most, I'm 101% sure about that them had a more easy life than the "Nkuhuma male" as you have mentioned above.
(11-19-2020, 03:17 AM)Slayerd Wrote: I've got a question for everybody. Recently the Birmingham Young Male lion was names Osindile which means 'survivor' in Zulu. A worthy name for the young male who had to survive the Ross Males and his leg injury that nearly killed him. Down south, in Sabi Sands, the Nkuhuma Young Male also had to face his own hardships and had to survive. He was also forced to face dominant male lions and on occasion, had to fight them to survive. He lost his mother and partner and had to look after himself for almost a year. The stress led to him losing condition and his mane until he found the Styx Pride. He is also a true Survivor of the bush. Both Males have similar stories and are similar in age but in your opinion, who had a much harsher life they had to survive through?
I would definitely say BYM had more harsh life. I do not think at all Nkuchuma male had particularly harash life for a male lion, rather around standard one. What it comes to pointing out lions around who I would say had harash life then I would go with:
1. Belly Scar N'was - It is rather obvious that with such injury he has life must be/must have been harash, esspecially through out nomadic stage.
2. Mhangeni 12 - Sub adults from which 2 lionesses had survived. Rather we all know the story of those going through constant hunger. Moreover one of them quite recently had very bad injury to her leg. She lost all the muscle on her leg and it looked like she might not survive much longer, but she fully recovered.
3. BIrmingham young male - He had very bad injury, from which many (great most?) believed he will never recover and with the pressure from Ross males he won't survive.
Then honorable mentions:
1. Xikukutsu male - The male who carried rough injury, possibly gorged by buffalo after which he lost most of his mane which indicates also big loses of condition. Hopefully tho lions like him, in physical prime are very resistant and he made full recover. Why I did put him in list over is that he had back up in terms of food source in forms of his blood brother, Monwana and Avoca prides and had no preasure on him from dominant males in the arena like BYM had.
2. Mbiri males - They were forced into nomadic life while they very just 2 and half years old or somewhere just a bit above that, by the new dominant males in the pride (Thanda Impis). Moreover one of them was killed by the dominant males around Orpen Gate. That is very difficult start for a male lions and why I did not put them in list above is that they did surprisingly great for the position they were put into. 3. Tumbela males - Those guys clearly had very rough nomadic life, facing constant hunger and losing two brothers in that stage of their life. Why I did not put them in the list above is that they spent quite a lot of time with their natal pride. They definitelly did not had rough start. I do not know what really went wrong for them. At their age they should have been able to feed for themselfs especially since they were in quite big group which makes hunt easier.
Why not Nkuchuma male even in the mentions list? First he had 3 years of easy life with natal pride. Then Avocas came. The were tolerating him tho for a couple of months before the put a preassure and when they did so, it hasn't been as rough as whatRoss males did to Birmingham male. He left pride at around 3,5 years old. Then he had few months of nomadic life in which he wasn't doing particularly bad. Then he linked up with Styx pride and his life became even easier. I would stay that is what in avarage wild lion gets from the life.
That's a great choice.
Anyway,I often think that the Xikukutsu male didn't had a hard life. Those two never became nomadic and had to move out by unwanted areas with dominant males constantly roaring and chasing them off. It's most, I'm 101% sure about that them had a more easy life than the "Nkuhuma male" as you have mentioned above.
What it come to uninjured Xikukutsu then for sure. What it comes to injured one then I imagine life with so rough injury, but with the back up of the pride is still more harash than standard nomadic life. Again I feel there is need to mention that Nkuchuma male nomadic life wasn't particularly rough like for example Tumbela's nomadic life.
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(11-19-2020, 03:17 AM)Slayerd Wrote: I've got a question for everybody. Recently the Birmingham Young Male lion was names Osindile which means 'survivor' in Zulu. A worthy name for the young male who had to survive the Ross Males and his leg injury that nearly killed him. Down south, in Sabi Sands, the Nkuhuma Young Male also had to face his own hardships and had to survive. He was also forced to face dominant male lions and on occasion, had to fight them to survive. He lost his mother and partner and had to look after himself for almost a year. The stress led to him losing condition and his mane until he found the Styx Pride. He is also a true Survivor of the bush. Both Males have similar stories and are similar in age but in your opinion, who had a much harsher life they had to survive through?
I would definitely say BYM had more harsh life. I do not think at all Nkuchuma male had particularly harash life for a male lion, rather around standard one. What it comes to pointing out lions around who I would say had harash life then I would go with:
1. Belly Scar N'was - It is rather obvious that with such injury he has life must be/must have been harash, esspecially through out nomadic stage.
2. Mhangeni 12 - Sub adults from which 2 lionesses had survived. Rather we all know the story of those going through constant hunger. Moreover one of them quite recently had very bad injury to her leg. She lost all the muscle on her leg and it looked like she might not survive much longer, but she fully recovered.
3. BIrmingham young male - He had very bad injury, from which many (great most?) believed he will never recover and with the pressure from Ross males he won't survive.
Then honorable mentions:
1. Xikukutsu male - The male who carried rough injury, possibly gorged by buffalo after which he lost most of his mane which indicates also big loses of condition. Hopefully tho lions like him, in physical prime are very resistant and he made full recover. Why I did put him in list over is that he had back up in terms of food source in forms of his blood brother, Monwana and Avoca prides and had no preasure on him from dominant males in the arena like BYM had.
2. Mbiri males - They were forced into nomadic life while they very just 2 and half years old or somewhere just a bit above that, by the new dominant males in the pride (Thanda Impis). Moreover one of them was killed by the dominant males around Orpen Gate. That is very difficult start for a male lions and why I did not put them in list above is that they did surprisingly great for the position they were put into. 3. Tumbela males - Those guys clearly had very rough nomadic life, facing constant hunger and losing two brothers in that stage of their life. Why I did not put them in the list above is that they spent quite a lot of time with their natal pride. They definitelly did not had rough start. I do not know what really went wrong for them. At their age they should have been able to feed for themselfs especially since they were in quite big group which makes hunt easier.
Why not Nkuchuma male even in the mentions list? First he had 3 years of easy life with natal pride. Then Avocas came. The were tolerating him tho for a couple of months before the put a preassure and when they did so, it hasn't been as rough as whatRoss males did to Birmingham male. He left pride at around 3,5 years old. Then he had few months of nomadic life in which he wasn't doing particularly bad. Then he linked up with Styx pride and his life became even easier. I would stay that is what in avarage wild lion gets from the life.
Your definition of harsh life comes from injuries alone. Injuries do not make a lions life hard, there are many more factors. Number 1, the Nkuhuma Young male was around his natal pride but was still forced out at the age of 2 years old,not 3. He stuck around but was not spoon fed by his pride. He lost his partner and mother and dissappeared for months. How do you know he didnt starve during that time? He returned with less mane than he had when he dissappeared. His body is covered in scars and cuts. The Nkuhuma Young Male might have not had an injury like the Birmingham Young Male but injuries are not the only thing that makes a life harder. The Birmingham Young Male survived because his pride fed him. All he had to do was keep up. Which I take no credit away from him for. On the other hand though, the Nkuhuma Young Male had to hunt for himself many times and was constantly chased off of kills by the Avocas or Hyenas. Belly Scar had 3 brothers and sister he could rely on. The Mbiri Males still had each other to rely on. The Birmingham Young Male had an injury but was still spoonfed by his pride up until now. The Nkuhuma Young Male didn't have that privilege, having to hunt since he was 2 years old and losing his partner and mother. He also had to fight the Avoca males getting into many scraps with Mohawk and showing great courage by standing up to them. I'm not sure you are aware of the Nkuhuma Males rough life. You said he had the standard life of a lion? I'm sorry but that's bullshit. No standard lion had to endure what he did. Even though he was accepted into the Styx Pride this year, he had to take a massive beating to be allowed to do so. He had to survive alot more than just an injury.
(11-19-2020, 08:38 PM)Nathan Aiden Wrote: Western sabisands rangers need to put some respect on the legend that is Hairy Belly Matimba.
There are many videos of displaying HB as a burden and never using a bit of praise or the words he deserves. Counting him out on many occasions.
They seem to not remember that this Male fought legendary Mapogos and Majingelanes which no coalition dared to face them..
And he is considered one of the greatest for a reason... Perhaps a very lions have this honour..
I didn't see any kind of disrespectful of the rangers from the western Sabi Sands with HB Matimba. They are giving their point of view as expert and enthusiast which have seeing to the Matimba male in their area for over 2 years now,BTW,When the rangers of western Sabi Sands didn't showed respect for Hairy belly?
(11-19-2020, 03:17 AM)Slayerd Wrote: I've got a question for everybody. Recently the Birmingham Young Male lion was names Osindile which means 'survivor' in Zulu. A worthy name for the young male who had to survive the Ross Males and his leg injury that nearly killed him. Down south, in Sabi Sands, the Nkuhuma Young Male also had to face his own hardships and had to survive. He was also forced to face dominant male lions and on occasion, had to fight them to survive. He lost his mother and partner and had to look after himself for almost a year. The stress led to him losing condition and his mane until he found the Styx Pride. He is also a true Survivor of the bush. Both Males have similar stories and are similar in age but in your opinion, who had a much harsher life they had to survive through?
I would definitely say BYM had more harsh life. I do not think at all Nkuchuma male had particularly harash life for a male lion, rather around standard one. What it comes to pointing out lions around who I would say had harash life then I would go with:
1. Belly Scar N'was - It is rather obvious that with such injury he has life must be/must have been harash, esspecially through out nomadic stage.
2. Mhangeni 12 - Sub adults from which 2 lionesses had survived. Rather we all know the story of those going through constant hunger. Moreover one of them quite recently had very bad injury to her leg. She lost all the muscle on her leg and it looked like she might not survive much longer, but she fully recovered.
3. BIrmingham young male - He had very bad injury, from which many (great most?) believed he will never recover and with the pressure from Ross males he won't survive.
Then honorable mentions:
1. Xikukutsu male - The male who carried rough injury, possibly gorged by buffalo after which he lost most of his mane which indicates also big loses of condition. Hopefully tho lions like him, in physical prime are very resistant and he made full recover. Why I did put him in list over is that he had back up in terms of food source in forms of his blood brother, Monwana and Avoca prides and had no preasure on him from dominant males in the arena like BYM had.
2. Mbiri males - They were forced into nomadic life while they very just 2 and half years old or somewhere just a bit above that, by the new dominant males in the pride (Thanda Impis). Moreover one of them was killed by the dominant males around Orpen Gate. That is very difficult start for a male lions and why I did not put them in list above is that they did surprisingly great for the position they were put into. 3. Tumbela males - Those guys clearly had very rough nomadic life, facing constant hunger and losing two brothers in that stage of their life. Why I did not put them in the list above is that they spent quite a lot of time with their natal pride. They definitelly did not had rough start. I do not know what really went wrong for them. At their age they should have been able to feed for themselfs especially since they were in quite big group which makes hunt easier.
Why not Nkuchuma male even in the mentions list? First he had 3 years of easy life with natal pride. Then Avocas came. The were tolerating him tho for a couple of months before the put a preassure and when they did so, it hasn't been as rough as whatRoss males did to Birmingham male. He left pride at around 3,5 years old. Then he had few months of nomadic life in which he wasn't doing particularly bad. Then he linked up with Styx pride and his life became even easier. I would stay that is what in avarage wild lion gets from the life.
That's a great choice.
Anyway,I often think that the Xikukutsu male didn't had a hard life. Those two never became nomadic and had to move out by unwanted areas with dominant males constantly roaring and chasing them off. It's most, I'm 101% sure about that them had a more easy life than the "Nkuhuma male" as you have mentioned above.
What it come to uninjured Xikukutsu then for sure. What it comes to injured one then I imagine life with so rough injury, but with the back up of the pride is still more harash than standard nomadic life. Again I feel there is need to mention that Nkuchuma male nomadic life wasn't particularly rough like for example Tumbela's nomadic life.
Both of the Xikukutsu males didn't had a hard life. They were on their comfort zone and spending their majority of their time with the Avoca pride,and often the Monwana pride. Without count that they were associated with Mapoza male, which means that the injured Xikukutsu male wasn't alone and It's could be almost impossible that he will died for starvation.
Different circumstances of life in both males after all
(11-19-2020, 09:45 PM)Slayerd Wrote: Your definition of harsh life comes from injuries alone. Injuries do not make a lions life hard, there are many more factors. Number 1, the Nkuhuma Young male was around his natal pride but was still forced out at the age of 2 years old,not 3. He stuck around but was not spoon fed by his pride. He lost his partner and mother and dissappeared for months. How do you know he didnt starve during that time? He returned with less mane than he had when he dissappeared. His body is covered in scars and cuts. The Nkuhuma Young Male might have not had an injury like the Birmingham Young Male but injuries are not the only thing that makes a life harder. The Birmingham Young Male survived because his pride fed him. All he had to do was keep up. Which I take no credit away from him for. On the other hand though, the Nkuhuma Young Male had to hunt for himself many times and was constantly chased off of kills by the Avocas or Hyenas. Belly Scar had 3 brothers and sister he could rely on. The Mbiri Males still had each other to rely on. The Birmingham Young Male had an injury but was still spoonfed by his pride up until now. The Nkuhuma Young Male didn't have that privilege, having to hunt since he was 2 years old and losing his partner and mother. He also had to fight the Avoca males getting into many scraps with Mohawk and showing great courage by standing up to them. I'm not sure you are aware of the Nkuhuma Males rough life. You said he had the standard life of a lion? I'm sorry but that's bullshit. No standard lion had to endure what he did. Even though he was accepted into the Styx Pride this year, he had to take a massive beating to be allowed to do so. He had to survive alot more than just an injury.
Nkuhuma male was born in July 2016 and he was starting to get chased of in May 2019, but in the next few months he was still returning to the pride... So he was around 3 when he start to become nomadic..
But i agree, thats pretty harsh life, but he showcase that he can survive without a problem, he was never seen in bad condition or skinny, he is pretty resilient lion..
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"Your definition of harsh life comes from injuries alone."
No, but obviously they do make life much more difficult in the wild.
"Number 1, the Nkuhuma Young male was around his natal pride but was still forced out at the age of 2 years old,not 3"
If I am not mistaken he was with the pride up untill that time: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ab8oDdos1Ok&ab_channel=2011ACVVV
and he was born in June 2016
"He lost his partner and mother"
Great most of male lions at that stage of life is cut of of natal pride. Many males are losing his partner. Some even lost multiple coalition partners through their lives like for example Hildas Rock male. I am not saying Nkuchuma male life was nice, but that it is as harsh as for most of other male lions in the wild.
"and dissappeared for months"
Some dissapear for entire life within Kruger, but how those that matter? That lion isn't spoted by rangers doesn't mean he is doing bad.
" How do you know he didnt starve during that time?"
When he was sighted through out nomadic male he was looking fine. Not too bad, not too well.
" He returned with less mane than he had when he dissappeared"
Well... I have seen nomadic males in better shape, but I could also point out good amount of males which were doing worst. To my eye Nkuchuma male was ok, as I said not too bad, not great either.
"His body is covered in scars and cuts."
That is how life of lion looks like. He is not more battle scared than other nomadic males. Moreover we will not compare few scratches to hole from buffalo horn (Xikukutsu) or think from inside body sticking of through big hole in the body (n'was) right?
"The Nkuhuma Young Male might have not had an injury like the Birmingham Young Male but injuries are not the only thing that makes a life harder."
To my position in which BYM was in was more harsh and I imagin painfull than Nkuchma male's. I already made my argument on it in previous post. You can think otherwise, but really do you think Nkuchuma male was in worst spot than BYM? :o
" On the other hand though, the Nkuhuma Young Male had to hunt for himself "
Nkuchuma male wasn't really long at all on himself. After he was kicked by his pride he was in company of his sister, then a bit on his own, and then he linked up with Styx pride.
"himself many times and was constantly chased off of kills by the Avocas or Hyenas"
Nkuchuma male spent his time in northern Singita, region without any dominant males who would stole his kill, nice spot, many other young males do not have. Also just about any other nomadic youngster he could be harrased by hyenas.
"Belly Scar had 3 brothers and sister he could rely on."
Nkuchuma male had sister and now has a pride, He was like half a year on his own or so. That is short nomadic stage of life. Many other males has much more harash that stage of life.
"The Mbiri Males still had each other to rely on"
Easly to say after seeing what they have became, but I would say that single 3 and half years old has much better chances to survive than 3 males of 2 and half years old. That is beside that Nkuchuma male as mentioned wasn't really that alone.
"The Nkuhuma Young Male didn't have that privilege, having to hunt since he was 2 years old"
He was 3 and half and at that stage most male lions doesn't have that privilege to still be with natal pride.
"and losing his partner and mother"
Same as many other nomads.
" He also had to fight the Avoca males getting into many scraps with Mohawk"
Many other nomads also have to fight other males and some are getting even much worst out of it like 3rd Mbiri than what Nkuchuma male got from Mohawka Avoca.
"I'm not sure you are aware of the Nkuhuma Males rough life"
I am not saying he do not have rough life. I am saying it isn't more rough than many other wild male lions. I would say his life was averagely rough for a wild male lion.
"You said he had the standard life of a lion? I'm sorry but that's bullshit. No standard lion had to endure what he did."
You mean what exactly? LIving a nomadic life at a age of 3,5? Losing a partner he was whit is a couple of months and did not even stick with that much? Being cut off from/lossing mother at a age of 3? I do not see there anythink special many other wild lions doesn't go through.
"Even though he was accepted into the Styx Pride this year, he had to take a massive beating to be allowed to do so"
That is absolutelly nowhere near what could be called a massive beating. rather opposite of that, they gave him few scratches, that is all.
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(11-19-2020, 03:17 AM)Slayerd Wrote: I've got a question for everybody. Recently the Birmingham Young Male lion was names Osindile which means 'survivor' in Zulu. A worthy name for the young male who had to survive the Ross Males and his leg injury that nearly killed him. Down south, in Sabi Sands, the Nkuhuma Young Male also had to face his own hardships and had to survive. He was also forced to face dominant male lions and on occasion, had to fight them to survive. He lost his mother and partner and had to look after himself for almost a year. The stress led to him losing condition and his mane until he found the Styx Pride. He is also a true Survivor of the bush. Both Males have similar stories and are similar in age but in your opinion, who had a much harsher life they had to survive through?
I would definitely say BYM had more harsh life. I do not think at all Nkuchuma male had particularly harash life for a male lion, rather around standard one. What it comes to pointing out lions around who I would say had harash life then I would go with:
1. Belly Scar N'was - It is rather obvious that with such injury he has life must be/must have been harash, esspecially through out nomadic stage.
2. Mhangeni 12 - Sub adults from which 2 lionesses had survived. Rather we all know the story of those going through constant hunger. Moreover one of them quite recently had very bad injury to her leg. She lost all the muscle on her leg and it looked like she might not survive much longer, but she fully recovered.
3. BIrmingham young male - He had very bad injury, from which many (great most?) believed he will never recover and with the pressure from Ross males he won't survive.
Then honorable mentions:
1. Xikukutsu male - The male who carried rough injury, possibly gorged by buffalo after which he lost most of his mane which indicates also big loses of condition. Hopefully tho lions like him, in physical prime are very resistant and he made full recover. Why I did put him in list over is that he had back up in terms of food source in forms of his blood brother, Monwana and Avoca prides and had no preasure on him from dominant males in the arena like BYM had.
2. Mbiri males - They were forced into nomadic life while they very just 2 and half years old or somewhere just a bit above that, by the new dominant males in the pride (Thanda Impis). Moreover one of them was killed by the dominant males around Orpen Gate. That is very difficult start for a male lions and why I did not put them in list above is that they did surprisingly great for the position they were put into. 3. Tumbela males - Those guys clearly had very rough nomadic life, facing constant hunger and losing two brothers in that stage of their life. Why I did not put them in the list above is that they spent quite a lot of time with their natal pride. They definitelly did not had rough start. I do not know what really went wrong for them. At their age they should have been able to feed for themselfs especially since they were in quite big group which makes hunt easier.
Why not Nkuchuma male even in the mentions list? First he had 3 years of easy life with natal pride. Then Avocas came. The were tolerating him tho for a couple of months before the put a preassure and when they did so, it hasn't been as rough as whatRoss males did to Birmingham male. He left pride at around 3,5 years old. Then he had few months of nomadic life in which he wasn't doing particularly bad. Then he linked up with Styx pride and his life became even easier. I would stay that is what in avarage wild lion gets from the life.
That's a great choice.
Anyway,I often think that the Xikukutsu male didn't had a hard life. Those two never became nomadic and had to move out by unwanted areas with dominant males constantly roaring and chasing them off. It's most, I'm 101% sure about that them had a more easy life than the "Nkuhuma male" as you have mentioned above.
What it come to uninjured Xikukutsu then for sure. What it comes to injured one then I imagine life with so rough injury, but with the back up of the pride is still more harash than standard nomadic life. Again I feel there is need to mention that Nkuchuma male nomadic life wasn't particularly rough like for example Tumbela's nomadic life.
Both of the Xikukutsu males didn't had a hard life. They were on their comfort zone and spending their majority of their time with the Avoca pride,and often the Monwana pride. Without count that they were associated with Mapoza male, which means that the injured Xikukutsu male wasn't alone and It's could be almost impossible that he will died for starvation.
Different circumstances of life in both males after all
Well.. he for sure could have died from a huge wound of his back he had. Just by a mane it was easly vissible that he was in bad condition by that time even through he had back up of his prides.
BTW I forgot on my list Talamati male who no doubt deserve spot there. He is living harash nomadic life with very bad limp which makes his life so much harder and more painfull. Perhaps even he is the males in worst position of all mentioned by my.
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(11-19-2020, 03:17 AM)Slayerd Wrote: I've got a question for everybody. Recently the Birmingham Young Male lion was names Osindile which means 'survivor' in Zulu. A worthy name for the young male who had to survive the Ross Males and his leg injury that nearly killed him. Down south, in Sabi Sands, the Nkuhuma Young Male also had to face his own hardships and had to survive. He was also forced to face dominant male lions and on occasion, had to fight them to survive. He lost his mother and partner and had to look after himself for almost a year. The stress led to him losing condition and his mane until he found the Styx Pride. He is also a true Survivor of the bush. Both Males have similar stories and are similar in age but in your opinion, who had a much harsher life they had to survive through?
I would definitely say BYM had more harsh life. I do not think at all Nkuchuma male had particularly harash life for a male lion, rather around standard one. What it comes to pointing out lions around who I would say had harash life then I would go with:
1. Belly Scar N'was - It is rather obvious that with such injury he has life must be/must have been harash, esspecially through out nomadic stage.
2. Mhangeni 12 - Sub adults from which 2 lionesses had survived. Rather we all know the story of those going through constant hunger. Moreover one of them quite recently had very bad injury to her leg. She lost all the muscle on her leg and it looked like she might not survive much longer, but she fully recovered.
3. BIrmingham young male - He had very bad injury, from which many (great most?) believed he will never recover and with the pressure from Ross males he won't survive.
Then honorable mentions:
1. Xikukutsu male - The male who carried rough injury, possibly gorged by buffalo after which he lost most of his mane which indicates also big loses of condition. Hopefully tho lions like him, in physical prime are very resistant and he made full recover. Why I did put him in list over is that he had back up in terms of food source in forms of his blood brother, Monwana and Avoca prides and had no preasure on him from dominant males in the arena like BYM had.
2. Mbiri males - They were forced into nomadic life while they very just 2 and half years old or somewhere just a bit above that, by the new dominant males in the pride (Thanda Impis). Moreover one of them was killed by the dominant males around Orpen Gate. That is very difficult start for a male lions and why I did not put them in list above is that they did surprisingly great for the position they were put into. 3. Tumbela males - Those guys clearly had very rough nomadic life, facing constant hunger and losing two brothers in that stage of their life. Why I did not put them in the list above is that they spent quite a lot of time with their natal pride. They definitelly did not had rough start. I do not know what really went wrong for them. At their age they should have been able to feed for themselfs especially since they were in quite big group which makes hunt easier.
Why not Nkuchuma male even in the mentions list? First he had 3 years of easy life with natal pride. Then Avocas came. The were tolerating him tho for a couple of months before the put a preassure and when they did so, it hasn't been as rough as whatRoss males did to Birmingham male. He left pride at around 3,5 years old. Then he had few months of nomadic life in which he wasn't doing particularly bad. Then he linked up with Styx pride and his life became even easier. I would stay that is what in avarage wild lion gets from the life.
Your definition of harsh life comes from injuries alone. Injuries do not make a lions life hard, there are many more factors. Number 1, the Nkuhuma Young male was around his natal pride but was still forced out at the age of 2 years old,not 3. He stuck around but was not spoon fed by his pride. He lost his partner and mother and dissappeared for months. How do you know he didnt starve during that time? He returned with less mane than he had when he dissappeared. His body is covered in scars and cuts. The Nkuhuma Young Male might have not had an injury like the Birmingham Young Male but injuries are not the only thing that makes a life harder. The Birmingham Young Male survived because his pride fed him. All he had to do was keep up. Which I take no credit away from him for. On the other hand though, the Nkuhuma Young Male had to hunt for himself many times and was constantly chased off of kills by the Avocas or Hyenas. Belly Scar had 3 brothers and sister he could rely on. The Mbiri Males still had each other to rely on. The Birmingham Young Male had an injury but was still spoonfed by his pride up until now. The Nkuhuma Young Male didn't have that privilege, having to hunt since he was 2 years old and losing his partner and mother. He also had to fight the Avoca males getting into many scraps with Mohawk and showing great courage by standing up to them. I'm not sure you are aware of the Nkuhuma Males rough life. You said he had the standard life of a lion? I'm sorry but that's bullshit. No standard lion had to endure what he did. Even though he was accepted into the Styx Pride this year, he had to take a massive beating to be allowed to do so. He had to survive alot more than just an injury.
You never answered my question, who exactly gave BYM the name of Osindile? Your mention of that name is the first I have heard of it. Not questioning it's existence, just wondering where it came from. You also mentioned that BYM was "spoonfed" up until now. Firstly, has he been ousted from the pride? Last video I saw of him was after he returned from an extended walk-about, where he bumped into the Mbiris, after which he later returned to the Birmingham Pride, and was under constant watch by Tyson. So, to imply that he has had a "spoonfed" life is far from the mark, or "bullshit" as you claim.
First of all, he had to try and keep up with the pride with a horrible injury to his back leg. Not sure if you saw those videos, but every step was a painful one, and he was often left behind due to his inability to keep up. Then he faced repeated beatings at the hands of the Ross Males, primarily Tyson, but he was simply unable to retreat into a nomadic life due to his leg injury. So, to live under the constant fear of being thrashed by a big male lion, who has already done tremendous damage to you, and being forced to try and keep up with the pride with said injury is about the furthest thing from being spoonfed that I can think of.
(11-20-2020, 02:28 AM)Gijima Wrote: The video is blank? Might just be me...
To me all videos like that are completely white... I guess posting like that doesnt work anymore or what..
Maybe better just post a link to an video..
I think this should be a problem from Facebook site. I have posted a video of the Selati coalition who was posted in Youtube and for now the video it's OK
