There is a world somewhere between reality and fiction. Although ignored by many, it is very real and so are those living in it. This forum is about the natural world. Here, wild animals will be heard and respected. The forum offers a glimpse into an unknown world as well as a room with a view on the present and the future. Anyone able to speak on behalf of those living in the emerald forest and the deep blue sea is invited to join.
Do you have any information on his age? His frame appears rather small akin to an Atlantic forest jaguar rather than a Pantanal one but he is very robust nonetheless.
Pinche started being monitored in 2016 and according to onçafari's estimations he was born in 2013, he is not a very big male here you can see him mating with Natureza female 86.5kg, he doesn't dwarf her but he is indeed a robust male.
Zico male 110kg on the other hand for example he is a very tall male.
These ''smaller'' Pantanal Jags can definitely have similar measurements and dimensions to large Cerrado jags of the same size since they overlap in these situations and speaking of Cerrado jaguars the misterious 118kg cerrado male jaguar I even seriously thought he could be Tiago cerrado male but Tiago was captured in March this year so I ruled out that possibility. But Tiago has all dimensions to be 118kg for sure. I am still trying to find out his weight but with no success as of yet unfortunately.
This cerrado male is probably Tiago.
[/video]
[video]
Indeed he does have a small frame for a Pantanal jaguar but still then I don't doubt he's above or close to 100 kg. It's just unusual to see jaguars of a small frame in Pantanal, nonetheless he is very handsome and robust.
[/video]
he must be an average sized male. Jairzão also has a small frame, he is around 6 years old and 82kg, but he is pure muscles. he was captured at Estação Ecológica de Taiamã Mato Grosso and the photographer Adriano Gambarini followed the capture.
In case you wondering who this 118kg cerrado male jag is, he was mentioned in one of @Pckts posts in the jaguar weight and measurements thread.
This conversation really got me excited.
*This image is copyright of its original author
Tiago cerrado male really drove me crazy I can't wait to post him in the modern weight and measurement thread hehe but I am still curious who that 118kg cerrado male could be.
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
I already left 4 messages whithin a month to Leandro and Anah regarding just Tiago's weight but with no response.
good news is that there are 2 cerrado monsters (or definitely more) out there.
That Cerrado jaguar got me excited as well, he's huge wow. And the other two jaguars that weighed 130 and 135 kg I'm assuming were Pantanal specimems? It'd be great if they could post the names of the jaguars to add them to the long list of Pantanal Tom's that grow past the 130 kg mark.
Even with these weights I still can't believe some people want to insist in comparing them to leopards, it's beyond frustrating at this point but at least we have a better idea on how big they can get through the work of these conservational groups.
05-18-2020, 04:34 PM( This post was last modified: 05-18-2020, 04:58 PM by Dark Jaguar )
(05-18-2020, 10:46 AM)OncaAtrox Wrote:
(05-18-2020, 05:43 AM)Dark Jaguar Wrote:
(05-17-2020, 09:52 PM)OncaAtrox Wrote:
(05-17-2020, 08:47 PM)Dark Jaguar Wrote:
(05-17-2020, 08:00 PM)OncaAtrox Wrote:
(05-17-2020, 07:24 PM)Dark Jaguar Wrote: onçafari
Pinche male.
VIDEO
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
Do you have any information on his age? His frame appears rather small akin to an Atlantic forest jaguar rather than a Pantanal one but he is very robust nonetheless.
Pinche started being monitored in 2016 and according to onçafari's estimations he was born in 2013, he is not a very big male here you can see him mating with Natureza female 86.5kg, he doesn't dwarf her but he is indeed a robust male.
Zico male 110kg on the other hand for example he is a very tall male.
These ''smaller'' Pantanal Jags can definitely have similar measurements and dimensions to large Cerrado jags of the same size since they overlap in these situations and speaking of Cerrado jaguars the misterious 118kg cerrado male jaguar I even seriously thought he could be Tiago cerrado male but Tiago was captured in March this year so I ruled out that possibility. But Tiago has all dimensions to be 118kg for sure. I am still trying to find out his weight but with no success as of yet unfortunately.
This cerrado male is probably Tiago.
[/video]
[video]
Indeed he does have a small frame for a Pantanal jaguar but still then I don't doubt he's above or close to 100 kg. It's just unusual to see jaguars of a small frame in Pantanal, nonetheless he is very handsome and robust.
[/video]
he must be an average sized male. Jairzão also has a small frame, he is around 6 years old and 82kg, but he is pure muscles. he was captured at Estação Ecológica de Taiamã Mato Grosso and the photographer Adriano Gambarini followed the capture.
In case you wondering who this 118kg cerrado male jag is, he was mentioned in one of @Pckts posts in the jaguar weight and measurements thread.
This conversation really got me excited.
*This image is copyright of its original author
Tiago cerrado male really drove me crazy I can't wait to post him in the modern weight and measurement thread hehe but I am still curious who that 118kg cerrado male could be.
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
I already left 4 messages whithin a month to Leandro and Anah regarding just Tiago's weight but with no response.
good news is that there are 2 cerrado monsters (or definitely more) out there.
That Cerrado jaguar got me excited as well, he's huge wow. And the other two jaguars that weighed 130 and 135 kg I'm assuming were Pantanal specimems? It'd be great if they could post the names of the jaguars to add them to the long list of Pantanal Tom's that grow past the 130 kg mark.
Even with these weights I still can't believe some people want to insist in comparing them to leopards, it's beyond frustrating at this point but at least we have a better idea on how big they can get through the work of these conservational groups.
This Cerrado jaguar is really driving me crazy . Yes those two jags with 130kg and 135kg are Pantanal males.
Leopards are interesting creatures but when it comes to sheer muscular power, brute force, explosiviness all combined the jaguars tops it, leopards has their impressive feats on their own right along with Pumas they're very acrobatic cats, both dominate the ''trees skills'' however jaguars are just so naturally broad and ''thick'' even the smallest population from Caatinga you can still see that bulkness look on them, that's what jaguars are built for. By the way I love Pumas too they're one of my favorite cats. If some people don't believe jaguars don't achieve certain sizes/weights just let them keep that belief, there are plenty examples to prove otherwise. Its the world's 3rd largest cat for a reason right.
Yes we need more of these large jaguars reported ( and shared for the public ). I am also curious to know Atlantic Forest population average sizes but I will wait until the population reestablish more to get that info, its better to know with very good numbers.
A few of the jaguars in these pics bellow may already be in the weight and measurement thread but most of them aren't.
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
Nice compilation.
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
Big Puma.
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
MM Male from south pantanal he was captured a few times I still wanna know how big this dude was in his last capture.
*This image is copyright of its original author
Cerrado jag.
*This image is copyright of its original author
This video bellow you can see Maya captive cerrado female being treated she had a little wound on her tail. I wanna know cerrado females weight too. Ariane wild cerrado female preyed on a male Tapir a few months ago.
Maya captive cerrado female being sedated and treated.
And Don't forget, Today the live sections will start.
Do you have any information on his age? His frame appears rather small akin to an Atlantic forest jaguar rather than a Pantanal one but he is very robust nonetheless.
Pinche started being monitored in 2016 and according to onçafari's estimations he was born in 2013, he is not a very big male here you can see him mating with Natureza female 86.5kg, he doesn't dwarf her but he is indeed a robust male.
Zico male 110kg on the other hand for example he is a very tall male.
These ''smaller'' Pantanal Jags can definitely have similar measurements and dimensions to large Cerrado jags of the same size since they overlap in these situations and speaking of Cerrado jaguars the misterious 118kg cerrado male jaguar I even seriously thought he could be Tiago cerrado male but Tiago was captured in March this year so I ruled out that possibility. But Tiago has all dimensions to be 118kg for sure. I am still trying to find out his weight but with no success as of yet unfortunately.
This cerrado male is probably Tiago.
[/video]
[video]
Indeed he does have a small frame for a Pantanal jaguar but still then I don't doubt he's above or close to 100 kg. It's just unusual to see jaguars of a small frame in Pantanal, nonetheless he is very handsome and robust.
[/video]
he must be an average sized male. Jairzão also has a small frame, he is around 6 years old and 82kg, but he is pure muscles. he was captured at Estação Ecológica de Taiamã Mato Grosso and the photographer Adriano Gambarini followed the capture.
In case you wondering who this 118kg cerrado male jag is, he was mentioned in one of @Pckts posts in the jaguar weight and measurements thread.
This conversation really got me excited.
*This image is copyright of its original author
Tiago cerrado male really drove me crazy I can't wait to post him in the modern weight and measurement thread hehe but I am still curious who that 118kg cerrado male could be.
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
I already left 4 messages whithin a month to Leandro and Anah regarding just Tiago's weight but with no response.
good news is that there are 2 cerrado monsters (or definitely more) out there.
That Cerrado jaguar got me excited as well, he's huge wow. And the other two jaguars that weighed 130 and 135 kg I'm assuming were Pantanal specimems? It'd be great if they could post the names of the jaguars to add them to the long list of Pantanal Tom's that grow past the 130 kg mark.
Even with these weights I still can't believe some people want to insist in comparing them to leopards, it's beyond frustrating at this point but at least we have a better idea on how big they can get through the work of these conservational groups.
This Cerrado jaguar is really driving me crazy . Yes those two jags with 130kg and 135kg are Pantanal males.
Leopards are interesting creatures but when it comes to sheer muscular power, brute force, explosiviness all combined the jaguars tops it, leopards has their impressive feats on their own right along with Pumas they're very acrobatic cats, both dominate the ''trees skills'' however jaguars are just so naturally broad and ''thick'' even the smallest population from Caatinga you can still see that bulkness look on them, that's what jaguars are built for. By the way I love Pumas too they're one of my favorite cats. If some people don't believe jaguars don't achieve certain sizes/weights just let them keep that belief, there are plenty examples to prove otherwise. Its the world's 3rd largest cat for a reason right.
Yes we need more of these large jaguars reported ( and shared for the public ). I am also curious to know Atlantic Forest population average sizes but I will wait until the population reestablish more to get that info, its better to know with very good numbers.
A few of the jaguars in these pics bellow may already be in the weight and measurement thread but most of them aren't.
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
Nice compilation.
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
Big Puma.
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
MM Male from south pantanal he was captured a few times I still wanna know how big this dude was in his last capture.
*This image is copyright of its original author
Cerrado jag.
*This image is copyright of its original author
This video bellow you can see Maya captive cerrado female being treated she had a little wound on her tail. I wanna know cerrado females weight too. Ariane wild cerrado female preyed on a male Tapir a few months ago.
Maya captive cerrado female being sedated and treated.
And Don't forget, Today the live sections will start.
Amazing compilation as always Dark Jaguar, your posts are always so appreciated. We will be expectant for these institutions to release the info from the captures of these jaguars, I don't think they are aware of how much the public wants to know this data! That other black jaguar from Cerrado you just posted was big and muscular, they don't cease to amaze.
As far as Atlantic forest jaguars is concerned, I believe that they are presenting smaller sizes nowadays due to the pack of resources available in the forest did the large deforestation. We know these jaguars can get pretty big too, I'm still waiting to see how large Argentine men like Sixto or Baqueano weight, those are two beasts.
05-18-2020, 07:00 PM( This post was last modified: 05-18-2020, 07:00 PM by Dark Jaguar )
Thank you so much @OncaAtrox I really appreciate it, and yeah that's why I wanna wait the Atlantic forest population to grow more and recover the numbers and also the whole wild enviroment in its sorroundings, this biome suffered alot like you said due to tons of deforestations and massive poaching galore more than 85% of this biome is gone, today very little of original Atlantic Forest remains, Its a shame some people don't value the natural beauties nature provide. I have a feeling these atlantic forest jags on good environmental conditions and numbers will surprise me.
05-19-2020, 07:26 PM( This post was last modified: 05-19-2020, 07:27 PM by Dark Jaguar )
The OnçaTalk live yesterday was fantastic.
I am gonna translate it.
they talked about jaguars genetic origins as well as the other big cats.
Jaguars are genetically similar to leopards and lions. Eduardo was part of a group of researchers on a study involving 7 countries that made all genetic sequencial of jaguars and other big cats. jaguars have ancestors traces of more than 4 million years. They compared jaguars genomes with other cats specially pantherine cats and they solved the evolutionary relationships of these species and estimated for how long they separated and they discovered there were many hibridization in the past, these species mated among themselves in the past and the genomes nowadays are mosaics of different evolutionary stories so there are pieces of the Jaguars genomes that are more related to Lions, other peices are more related to Leopards so these three species specifically are very similar genetically they diverged in less time around 2 to 3 million years which is quite recent and they have been in a moment they mated after separation.
Not necessarily these mixes and matings affected these differences on their looking,fisiology,behaviour,ecology.
These 3 species got many resemblances and many differences. the resemblances the ancestors of the 3 species had and are still kept for example the coat, the leopard and jaguar probably kept its ancestors and the lion's changed, that makes sense and these are some of the things we are studying as well.
In the first article they discovered there were regions in the genome that looked to be fruit of exchanges between jaguar and lion and these regions apperead natural selection on the jaguar in favour of characteristics that were present on the individuals they analysed.
They're still working more on this to find out more.
In the Atlantic forest they already detected evidences of loss of genetic variability in fragmented populations who suffers fragmentations that population get small and the animals become relatives to one another with little individuals they mate between themselves and start to be more alike genetically and the fragmentations start to be more different randomly.
In their first genomic analysis of wild animals from many regions of Brazil they finding evidences of variability loss, parts of genomes are equal with no variability meaning the ancestors like fathers and grandfathers were relatives. Genetically variability loss would lead jaguars to disappear. Populations with little or 0 Genetically variability have less adaptation conditions to environmental changes, if a new lethal disease occurs the jaguars with all equal individuals they will all die. So Atlantic forest situation is very worrying.
So yeah @OncaAtrox like I said yesterday its better to wait for the population rebuild in Atlantic Forest to get those base weights which will be hard and long process.
Onçafari made a mercury ( element ) research through jaguars furs. And they compared the amount of mercury in the northern region of pantanal ( porto jofre ) and southern pantanal region all at same time, same year to not have natural interferences. They found a huge amount of mercury In the northern region 40% more mercury than in southern region cause there's alot of gold mining. on an in depth study to continue this study its possible to discover if there's genetic modifications in the future but so far there's not problems. Just imagine the amount of mercury People in the region who consume fish,caimans could have. They also made diseases researches of parasites on horses/capybaras/jaguars and maybe humans. parasites related to ticks found on dogs/bovines of the area so they make these studies to understand the role of these diseases in nature.
They talked about the little population of caatinga jaguars and how small they are 30-40kg and even Caatinga Pumas sometimes are larger than Caatinga Jaguars with some of their preys being rodents, deers....
Note: regarding Caatinga Puma/Jags That's very interesting Just like I had mentioned this a few months ago that if there's a place with the smallest differences in size/dimensions between jags and pumas this place is in Caatinga.
Cerrado jaguars population is vunerable and its decaying theres risk of extinction but there's conservation projects in that region to avoid its extinction in that region.
Pampas jags as we all know they're extinct.
They also talked about other stuff like:
People hunting jaguar's preys causing impacts on jaguars/human conflicts.
Melanism (dark coat) genes on jaguars is dominat whereas on leopards is recessive.
They witnessed jaguars carrying preys up trees.
Trees shared by jaguars/pumas and other animals.
Eyewitness of wild Jaguar and wild Puma fight.
Jaguar predation on dogs.
Amazonic jags prey on monkeys up trees during flooded seasons.
Jaguar predation on Boar: jags tend to predate only on small boars and avoid the adult ones they don't have accounts of jaguars predating on adult boars they're way too aggressive. ( just imagine how aggressive a 300kg Javapig would be like )
They're helping bring jaguars to Argentina in Berá wich is very similar to the brazilian pantanal but jaguars there were extinct so there are a few brazilian jaguars being shipped for that area in Argentina ( the ones I know of was a female and I think Jatobazinho male was one of them too ).
They also talked about one fact that is always repeated for those who don't know, there is no such thing as melanistic/black Pantanal jaguars, there's no scientific evidences of black pantanal jags and nobody never saw one at all. But there's melanistic jaguars in all other brazilian biomes Cerrado/Caatinga/Pantanal/Amazon/Atlantic Forest or maybe Pampas when there were jags.
They're studying why there's melanistic jags in some places and not in others.
Jaguars have many connectivity genetically but it doesn't mean they're identical. they also got small differences and unique characteristics similar to humans the level of genetic differences in humans between continents is little. So are with jaguars they aren't that different but got their own characteristics with small differences in genes which could probably be because of adaptation in different regions for example Amazon/Pantanal it have to do with deseases as well.
Morphologic external differences from one biome to the other: They studying these genes and look for these differences and there are some genes they're studying that seemed to have showed significant differences between the different biomes and now they figuring out what these genes do and to see the differences among the biomes.
Jaguar's bite strength: Of all big cats jaguar got the strongest bite force in terms of force measurements and strength of the canines and there's a hypothesis lauched 30 years ago it may have to do with jaguas adaptation to eat caiman and turtle with an extraodinary bite force, and through the genoma article, jaguars with prey selection different than other species jaguars got genes involved on the facial Skull development and other genes that showed jaguar adaptation that are involved on forelimbs development, jags got very strong forelimbs so it could have to do with the adaptation to predate on caimans and turtles throughout the jaguar's evolutionary history so its a very interesting discovery on the article we published and it open the doors for more studies for example is it equal in all regions? The jaguar we analysed is exclusive from Pantanal. And all these questions I hope will keep studying in the coming years.
Unfortunately due to tiger population decay the easterns their attention now are to America looking for jaguars, there was a case in Bolivia of more than 180 jaguar canines being shipped overseas, there was a case of an illegal trade of jaguar skulls that the brazilian Federal Police seized alot of jaguar skulls in northern Pará-Brazil in 2018-2019. The reason is the same ( tiger parts, rhino parts ) for medicine. In Brazil its still unknown how it works but the conservation,IBAMA and enviormental entities are trying to find out but so far the biggest issue in Brazil is retaliation poaching in agricultural areas and trophy hunting.
Study and usage of natural corridors and entities team up like Pró Carnívoros and Panthera to know the resemblances and differences between northern pantanal jaguars and southern pantanal jaguars to know how the jaguar venture crossing up north whether they go through the Paraguay River or if they go through Central Pantanal the idea is there must be a natural conexion between the populations and groups of jaguars and there may no be need of reintroduction what we aim is natural corridors.
Importance of radio collars: it shows us in a studying area the environment jaguars like so we know how jaguars use the area and what are the necessary areas cause the progress is coming and the animal is losing environment.
There were other infos as well in the Onçafari live and I can't wait for today's live, it will have a different topic, I am really looking forward to it.
05-19-2020, 08:11 PM( This post was last modified: 05-19-2020, 08:12 PM by Balam )
(05-19-2020, 07:26 PM)Dark Jaguar Wrote: The OnçaTalk live yesterday was fantastic.
I am gonna translate it.
they talked about jaguars genetic origins as well as the other big cats.
Jaguars are genetically similar to leopards and lions. Eduardo was part of a group of researchers on a study involving 7 countries that made all genetic sequencial of jaguars and other big cats. jaguars have ancestors traces of more than 4 million years. They compared jaguars genomes with other cats specially pantherine cats and they solved the evolutionary relationships of these species and estimated for how long they separated and they discovered there were many hibridization in the past, these species mated among themselves in the past and the genomes nowadays are mosaics of different evolutionary stories so there are pieces of the Jaguars genomes that are more related to Lions, other peices are more related to Leopards so these three species specifically are very similar genetically they diverged in less time around 2 to 3 million years which is quite recent and they have been in a moment they mated after separation.
Not necessarily these mixes and matings affected these differences on their looking,fisiology,behaviour,ecology.
These 3 species got many resemblances and many differences. the resemblances the ancestors of the 3 species had and are still kept for example the coat, the leopard and jaguar probably kept its ancestors and the lion's changed, that makes sense and these are some of the things we are studying as well.
In the first article they discovered there were regions in the genome that looked to be fruit of exchanges between jaguar and lion and these regions apperead natural selection on the jaguar in favour of characteristics that were present on the individuals they analysed.
They're still working more on this to find out more.
In the Atlantic forest they already detected evidences of loss of genetic variability in fragmented populations who suffers fragmentations that population get small and the animals become relatives to one another with little individuals they mate between themselves and start to be more alike genetically and the fragmentations start to be more different randomly.
In their first genomic analysis of wild animals from many regions of Brazil they finding evidences of variability loss, parts of genomes are equal with no variability meaning the ancestors like fathers and grandfathers were relatives. Genetically variability loss would lead jaguars to disappear. Populations with little or 0 Genetically variability have less adaptation conditions to environmental changes, if a new lethal disease occurs the jaguars with all equal individuals they will all die. So Atlantic forest situation is very worrying.
So yeah @OncaAtrox like I said yesterday its better to wait for the population rebuild in Atlantic Forest to get those base weights which will be hard and long process.
Onçafari made a mercury ( element ) research through jaguars furs. And they compared the amount of mercury in the northern region of pantanal ( porto jofre ) and southern pantanal region all at same time, same year to not have natural interferences. They found a huge amount of mercury In the northern region 40% more mercury than in southern region cause there's alot of gold mining. on an in depth study to continue this study its possible to discover if there's genetic modifications in the future but so far there's not problems. Just imagine the amount of mercury People in the region who consume fish,caimans could have. They also made diseases researches of parasites on horses/capybaras/jaguars and maybe humans. parasites related to ticks found on dogs/bovines of the area so they make these studies to understand the role of these diseases in nature.
They talked about the little population of caatinga jaguars and how small they are 30-40kg and even Caatinga Pumas sometimes are larger than Caatinga Jaguars with some of their preys being rodents, deers....
Note: regarding Caatinga Puma/Jags That's very interesting Just like I had mentioned this a few months ago that if there's a place with the smallest differences in size/dimensions between jags and pumas this place is in Caatinga.
Cerrado jaguars population is vunerable and its decaying theres risk of extinction but there's conservation projects in that region to avoid its extinction in that region.
Pampas jags as we all know they're extinct.
They also talked about other stuff like:
People hunting jaguar's preys causing impacts on jaguars/human conflicts.
Melanism (dark coat) genes on jaguars is dominat whereas on leopards is recessive.
They witnessed jaguars carrying preys up trees.
Trees shared by jaguars/pumas and other animals.
Eyewitness of wild Jaguar and wild Puma fight.
Jaguar predation on dogs.
Amazonic jags prey on monkeys up trees during flooded seasons.
Jaguar predation on Boar: jags tend to predate only on small boars and avoid the adult ones they don't have accounts of jaguars predating on adult boars they're way too aggressive. ( just imagine how aggressive a 300kg Javapig would be like )
They're helping bring jaguars to Argentina in Berá wich is very similar to the brazilian pantanal but jaguars there were extinct so there are a few brazilian jaguars being shipped for that area in Argentina ( the ones I know of was a female and I think Jatobazinho male was one of them too ).
They also talked about one fact that is always repeated for those who don't know, there is no such thing as melanistic/black Pantanal jaguars, there's no scientific evidences of black pantanal jags and nobody never saw one at all. But there's melanistic jaguars in all other brazilian biomes Cerrado/Caatinga/Pantanal/Amazon/Atlantic Forest or maybe Pampas when there were jags.
They're studying why there's melanistic jags in some places and not in others.
Jaguars have many connectivity genetically but it doesn't mean they're identical. they also got small differences and unique characteristics similar to humans the level of genetic differences in humans between continents is little. So are with jaguars they aren't that different but got their own characteristics with small differences in genes which could probably be because of adaptation in different regions for example Amazon/Pantanal it have to do with deseases as well.
Morphologic external differences from one biome to the other: They studying these genes and look for these differences and there are some genes they're studying that seemed to have showed significant differences between the different biomes and now they figuring out what these genes do and to see the differences among the biomes.
Jaguar's bite strength: Of all big cats jaguar got the strongest bite force in terms of force measurements and strength of the canines and there's a hypothesis lauched 30 years ago it may have to do with jaguas adaptation to eat caiman and turtle with an extraodinary bite force, and through the genoma article, jaguars with prey selection different than other species jaguars got genes involved on the facial Skull development and other genes that showed jaguar adaptation that are involved on forelimbs development, jags got very strong forelimbs so it could have to do with the adaptation to predate on caimans and turtles throughout the jaguar's evolutionary history so its a very interesting discovery on the article we published and it open the doors for more studies for example is it equal in all regions? The jaguar we analysed is exclusive from Pantanal. And all these questions I hope will keep studying in the coming years.
Unfortunately due to tiger population decay the easterns their attention now are to America looking for jaguars, there was a case in Bolivia of more than 180 jaguar canines being shipped overseas, there was a case of an illegal trade of jaguar skulls that the brazilian Federal Police seized alot of jaguar skulls in northern Pará-Brazil in 2018-2019. The reason is the same ( tiger parts, rhino parts ) for medicine. In Brazil its still unknown how it works but the conservation,IBAMA and enviormental entities are trying to find out but so far the biggest issue in Brazil is retaliation poaching in agricultural areas and trophy hunting.
Study and usage of natural corridors and entities team up like Pró Carnívoros and Panthera to know the resemblances and differences between northern pantanal jaguars and southern pantanal jaguars to know how the jaguar venture crossing up north whether they go through the Paraguay River or if they go through Central Pantanal the idea is there must be a natural conexion between the populations and groups of jaguars and there may no be need of reintroduction what we aim is natural corridors.
Importance of radio collars: it shows us in a studying area the environment jaguars like so we know how jaguars use the area and what are the necessary areas cause the progress is coming and the animal is losing environment.
There were other infos as well in the Onçafari live and I can't wait for today's live, it will have a different topic, I am really looking forward to it.
So much amazing information to unpack here. I'm especially surprised that jaguars avoided predation on adult boar when they have no problem killing tapirs of a similar size, even the Central American ones, maybe they just rather choose less dangerously prey if they have access to them, I read recently that overall tapirs were avoided too. Do you know by any chance if predation on feral buffalo was discussed?
The issue of genetic diversity is worrisome, I remain optimist about the work these conservational groups are making to increase their access to corridors, hopefully they will start reintroducing natural larger prey info the biome as well.
What were details of the fight with the cougars? I'm assuming the jaguar would be dominant but who knows.
05-19-2020, 11:41 PM( This post was last modified: 05-20-2020, 12:11 AM by Dark Jaguar )
(05-19-2020, 08:11 PM)OncaAtrox Wrote:
(05-19-2020, 07:26 PM)Dark Jaguar Wrote: The OnçaTalk live yesterday was fantastic.
I am gonna translate it.
they talked about jaguars genetic origins as well as the other big cats.
Jaguars are genetically similar to leopards and lions. Eduardo was part of a group of researchers on a study involving 7 countries that made all genetic sequencial of jaguars and other big cats. jaguars have ancestors traces of more than 4 million years. They compared jaguars genomes with other cats specially pantherine cats and they solved the evolutionary relationships of these species and estimated for how long they separated and they discovered there were many hibridization in the past, these species mated among themselves in the past and the genomes nowadays are mosaics of different evolutionary stories so there are pieces of the Jaguars genomes that are more related to Lions, other peices are more related to Leopards so these three species specifically are very similar genetically they diverged in less time around 2 to 3 million years which is quite recent and they have been in a moment they mated after separation.
Not necessarily these mixes and matings affected these differences on their looking,fisiology,behaviour,ecology.
These 3 species got many resemblances and many differences. the resemblances the ancestors of the 3 species had and are still kept for example the coat, the leopard and jaguar probably kept its ancestors and the lion's changed, that makes sense and these are some of the things we are studying as well.
In the first article they discovered there were regions in the genome that looked to be fruit of exchanges between jaguar and lion and these regions apperead natural selection on the jaguar in favour of characteristics that were present on the individuals they analysed.
They're still working more on this to find out more.
In the Atlantic forest they already detected evidences of loss of genetic variability in fragmented populations who suffers fragmentations that population get small and the animals become relatives to one another with little individuals they mate between themselves and start to be more alike genetically and the fragmentations start to be more different randomly.
In their first genomic analysis of wild animals from many regions of Brazil they finding evidences of variability loss, parts of genomes are equal with no variability meaning the ancestors like fathers and grandfathers were relatives. Genetically variability loss would lead jaguars to disappear. Populations with little or 0 Genetically variability have less adaptation conditions to environmental changes, if a new lethal disease occurs the jaguars with all equal individuals they will all die. So Atlantic forest situation is very worrying.
So yeah @OncaAtrox like I said yesterday its better to wait for the population rebuild in Atlantic Forest to get those base weights which will be hard and long process.
Onçafari made a mercury ( element ) research through jaguars furs. And they compared the amount of mercury in the northern region of pantanal ( porto jofre ) and southern pantanal region all at same time, same year to not have natural interferences. They found a huge amount of mercury In the northern region 40% more mercury than in southern region cause there's alot of gold mining. on an in depth study to continue this study its possible to discover if there's genetic modifications in the future but so far there's not problems. Just imagine the amount of mercury People in the region who consume fish,caimans could have. They also made diseases researches of parasites on horses/capybaras/jaguars and maybe humans. parasites related to ticks found on dogs/bovines of the area so they make these studies to understand the role of these diseases in nature.
They talked about the little population of caatinga jaguars and how small they are 30-40kg and even Caatinga Pumas sometimes are larger than Caatinga Jaguars with some of their preys being rodents, deers....
Note: regarding Caatinga Puma/Jags That's very interesting Just like I had mentioned this a few months ago that if there's a place with the smallest differences in size/dimensions between jags and pumas this place is in Caatinga.
Cerrado jaguars population is vunerable and its decaying theres risk of extinction but there's conservation projects in that region to avoid its extinction in that region.
Pampas jags as we all know they're extinct.
They also talked about other stuff like:
People hunting jaguar's preys causing impacts on jaguars/human conflicts.
Melanism (dark coat) genes on jaguars is dominat whereas on leopards is recessive.
They witnessed jaguars carrying preys up trees.
Trees shared by jaguars/pumas and other animals.
Eyewitness of wild Jaguar and wild Puma fight.
Jaguar predation on dogs.
Amazonic jags prey on monkeys up trees during flooded seasons.
Jaguar predation on Boar: jags tend to predate only on small boars and avoid the adult ones they don't have accounts of jaguars predating on adult boars they're way too aggressive. ( just imagine how aggressive a 300kg Javapig would be like )
They're helping bring jaguars to Argentina in Berá wich is very similar to the brazilian pantanal but jaguars there were extinct so there are a few brazilian jaguars being shipped for that area in Argentina ( the ones I know of was a female and I think Jatobazinho male was one of them too ).
They also talked about one fact that is always repeated for those who don't know, there is no such thing as melanistic/black Pantanal jaguars, there's no scientific evidences of black pantanal jags and nobody never saw one at all. But there's melanistic jaguars in all other brazilian biomes Cerrado/Caatinga/Pantanal/Amazon/Atlantic Forest or maybe Pampas when there were jags.
They're studying why there's melanistic jags in some places and not in others.
Jaguars have many connectivity genetically but it doesn't mean they're identical. they also got small differences and unique characteristics similar to humans the level of genetic differences in humans between continents is little. So are with jaguars they aren't that different but got their own characteristics with small differences in genes which could probably be because of adaptation in different regions for example Amazon/Pantanal it have to do with deseases as well.
Morphologic external differences from one biome to the other: They studying these genes and look for these differences and there are some genes they're studying that seemed to have showed significant differences between the different biomes and now they figuring out what these genes do and to see the differences among the biomes.
Jaguar's bite strength: Of all big cats jaguar got the strongest bite force in terms of force measurements and strength of the canines and there's a hypothesis lauched 30 years ago it may have to do with jaguas adaptation to eat caiman and turtle with an extraodinary bite force, and through the genoma article, jaguars with prey selection different than other species jaguars got genes involved on the facial Skull development and other genes that showed jaguar adaptation that are involved on forelimbs development, jags got very strong forelimbs so it could have to do with the adaptation to predate on caimans and turtles throughout the jaguar's evolutionary history so its a very interesting discovery on the article we published and it open the doors for more studies for example is it equal in all regions? The jaguar we analysed is exclusive from Pantanal. And all these questions I hope will keep studying in the coming years.
Unfortunately due to tiger population decay the easterns their attention now are to America looking for jaguars, there was a case in Bolivia of more than 180 jaguar canines being shipped overseas, there was a case of an illegal trade of jaguar skulls that the brazilian Federal Police seized alot of jaguar skulls in northern Pará-Brazil in 2018-2019. The reason is the same ( tiger parts, rhino parts ) for medicine. In Brazil its still unknown how it works but the conservation,IBAMA and enviormental entities are trying to find out but so far the biggest issue in Brazil is retaliation poaching in agricultural areas and trophy hunting.
Study and usage of natural corridors and entities team up like Pró Carnívoros and Panthera to know the resemblances and differences between northern pantanal jaguars and southern pantanal jaguars to know how the jaguar venture crossing up north whether they go through the Paraguay River or if they go through Central Pantanal the idea is there must be a natural conexion between the populations and groups of jaguars and there may no be need of reintroduction what we aim is natural corridors.
Importance of radio collars: it shows us in a studying area the environment jaguars like so we know how jaguars use the area and what are the necessary areas cause the progress is coming and the animal is losing environment.
There were other infos as well in the Onçafari live and I can't wait for today's live, it will have a different topic, I am really looking forward to it.
So much amazing information to unpack here. I'm especially surprised that jaguars avoided predation on adult boar when they have no problem killing tapirs of a similar size, even the Central American ones, maybe they just rather choose less dangerously prey if they have access to them, I read recently that overall tapirs were avoided too. Do you know by any chance if predation on feral buffalo was discussed?
The issue of genetic diversity is worrisome, I remain optimist about the work these conservational groups are making to increase their access to corridors, hopefully they will start reintroducing natural larger prey info the biome as well.
What were details of the fight with the cougars? I'm assuming the jaguar would be dominant but who knows.
They were answering many interesting questions from the public and they are up to answer the questions on the Onçatalks and its just the beginning as we will have the whole week with Onçatalks.
The adult boar predation Ronaldo said it wasn't witnessed or reported by them as of yet but it could happen specially in case we have a determined large jag. They heard cases that Puma can predate on the cubs/calves. Large aggressive Javapigs in Brazil ( breed between Domestic Pig (Sus scrofa domesticus) and Feral Pig (Sus scrofa) ) I guess would be very hard for a Jaguar to take down but not all Javapigs are aggressive.
I think that such a predator like a jaguar want to spend the least amount of energy as possible so easier prey would be the best suited option but of course they could take down the larger ones. jaguars are very cautious hunting Giant Anteater for example due to their deadly claws ( there are many cases of humans that got killed by giant anteaters here in brazil including a pit bull who got killed as well ). Cerrado jags are the giant anteaters killer expert, of all brazilian jags they prey on giant anteater the most and yet they are very cautious. About avoiding Tapir Its interesting cause on the other hand we got Ariane female cerrado jaguar taking down a male tapir. Jaguars are just fascinating creatures the more we learn about them the more questions we got .
About predation on feral buffallo no they didn't talk about it but maybe today they will. It depends on the questions they receive and read.
About the genetic variability its a very delicate issue because for example its not just about the numbers increase we also need ''home'' for them, Atlantic Forest jaguar needs alot of areas to move even more than Pantanal jaguars, Eduardo said that genetically speaking even if we got 50 atlantic forest jaguars it is still little if we think IN LONG TERMS, so we would need much more than 50 individuals so the effective size of the population implies on how much genetic variability this population got and will keep it in long terms. so even 50 jags is already ambitious in many atlantic forest areas because to have 50 jags we will need many areas and in many fragments of Atlantic Forest there are 10-20 jaguars, very little numbers so we don't even achieve those 50 individuals. Sad truth.
And I personally think the genetic variability issue is also happening to Caatinga jaguars since there are so little of them fewer than Atlantic Forest.
Another big issue which is very common are wild animals getting run over by cars including Tapirs. They mentioned a case of a large Tapir who got ran over by car and the 2 people in the car died by the impact.
I really get pissed off when I see Maned Wolves killed by vehicles lying lifeless. The roads are one of the biggest threat for Maned Wolves and thats one of the reason they're so endangered animals. I am a Maned Wolf fan as well, they're so beautiful, unique and are Symbol of the brazilian Cerrado.
So the roads are very dangerous for wild animals and vehicles run overs plays a major negative role In the wildlife as a whole.
About the fight between Jaguar vs Puma, Joares experienced these situations he along with a capture team captured at Parque Nacional Grande Sertão Veredas a bruised Puma who fought a jaguar with bite marks on the paws, shoulders and they checked the place of the fight, Joares never saw a Puma death or carcass predated by jaguars but he saw the fight between both cats and the result is Ugly.
By his experiences I think that just the fact the Pumas surviving the jaguar fight is already an amazing feat of durability given how smaller Pumas are in those regions. But yeah I know in general they get predated by jags but you got what I meant right.
As we already know in pantanal Pumas avoid encounter with jaguars they tend to show up in certain times during the day and you won't see them if jaguars are nearby BUT they already registered one area in south pantanal a Jaguar feeding on a kill and not too far away a Puma made a kill and fed on it right on the spot not too far from the jaguar they both could see each other. Both cat relished their kill as onçafari team registered the fantastic moment.
They also said in order to prepare the capture process it takes 6 months. Onçafari team is now in the field monitoring the areas to figure out where there are more jaguars/pumas currently.
So it means there will be jags/pumas captures soon.
The only thing that bothers me alot is the fact many many times projects/institutions/conservations
don't share the weight and measurements of the jaguars specially the large ones, these animals are the main reason of their whole work so sharing the datas of the animals is a MUST DO in my opinion. just by the weight wise It already gives the people an idea of how well the conservation projects are working by knowing how large the animals are getting meaning the environment in the area as a whole is paying off as well as on prey base. but in order to know it, weights should be provided.
By the way are you gonna watch OnçaTalks today?? I am really excited
05-20-2020, 12:38 AM( This post was last modified: 05-20-2020, 12:39 AM by Balam )
(05-19-2020, 11:41 PM)Dark Jaguar Wrote:
(05-19-2020, 08:11 PM)OncaAtrox Wrote:
(05-19-2020, 07:26 PM)Dark Jaguar Wrote: The OnçaTalk live yesterday was fantastic.
I am gonna translate it.
they talked about jaguars genetic origins as well as the other big cats.
Jaguars are genetically similar to leopards and lions. Eduardo was part of a group of researchers on a study involving 7 countries that made all genetic sequencial of jaguars and other big cats. jaguars have ancestors traces of more than 4 million years. They compared jaguars genomes with other cats specially pantherine cats and they solved the evolutionary relationships of these species and estimated for how long they separated and they discovered there were many hibridization in the past, these species mated among themselves in the past and the genomes nowadays are mosaics of different evolutionary stories so there are pieces of the Jaguars genomes that are more related to Lions, other peices are more related to Leopards so these three species specifically are very similar genetically they diverged in less time around 2 to 3 million years which is quite recent and they have been in a moment they mated after separation.
Not necessarily these mixes and matings affected these differences on their looking,fisiology,behaviour,ecology.
These 3 species got many resemblances and many differences. the resemblances the ancestors of the 3 species had and are still kept for example the coat, the leopard and jaguar probably kept its ancestors and the lion's changed, that makes sense and these are some of the things we are studying as well.
In the first article they discovered there were regions in the genome that looked to be fruit of exchanges between jaguar and lion and these regions apperead natural selection on the jaguar in favour of characteristics that were present on the individuals they analysed.
They're still working more on this to find out more.
In the Atlantic forest they already detected evidences of loss of genetic variability in fragmented populations who suffers fragmentations that population get small and the animals become relatives to one another with little individuals they mate between themselves and start to be more alike genetically and the fragmentations start to be more different randomly.
In their first genomic analysis of wild animals from many regions of Brazil they finding evidences of variability loss, parts of genomes are equal with no variability meaning the ancestors like fathers and grandfathers were relatives. Genetically variability loss would lead jaguars to disappear. Populations with little or 0 Genetically variability have less adaptation conditions to environmental changes, if a new lethal disease occurs the jaguars with all equal individuals they will all die. So Atlantic forest situation is very worrying.
So yeah @OncaAtrox like I said yesterday its better to wait for the population rebuild in Atlantic Forest to get those base weights which will be hard and long process.
Onçafari made a mercury ( element ) research through jaguars furs. And they compared the amount of mercury in the northern region of pantanal ( porto jofre ) and southern pantanal region all at same time, same year to not have natural interferences. They found a huge amount of mercury In the northern region 40% more mercury than in southern region cause there's alot of gold mining. on an in depth study to continue this study its possible to discover if there's genetic modifications in the future but so far there's not problems. Just imagine the amount of mercury People in the region who consume fish,caimans could have. They also made diseases researches of parasites on horses/capybaras/jaguars and maybe humans. parasites related to ticks found on dogs/bovines of the area so they make these studies to understand the role of these diseases in nature.
They talked about the little population of caatinga jaguars and how small they are 30-40kg and even Caatinga Pumas sometimes are larger than Caatinga Jaguars with some of their preys being rodents, deers....
Note: regarding Caatinga Puma/Jags That's very interesting Just like I had mentioned this a few months ago that if there's a place with the smallest differences in size/dimensions between jags and pumas this place is in Caatinga.
Cerrado jaguars population is vunerable and its decaying theres risk of extinction but there's conservation projects in that region to avoid its extinction in that region.
Pampas jags as we all know they're extinct.
They also talked about other stuff like:
People hunting jaguar's preys causing impacts on jaguars/human conflicts.
Melanism (dark coat) genes on jaguars is dominat whereas on leopards is recessive.
They witnessed jaguars carrying preys up trees.
Trees shared by jaguars/pumas and other animals.
Eyewitness of wild Jaguar and wild Puma fight.
Jaguar predation on dogs.
Amazonic jags prey on monkeys up trees during flooded seasons.
Jaguar predation on Boar: jags tend to predate only on small boars and avoid the adult ones they don't have accounts of jaguars predating on adult boars they're way too aggressive. ( just imagine how aggressive a 300kg Javapig would be like )
They're helping bring jaguars to Argentina in Berá wich is very similar to the brazilian pantanal but jaguars there were extinct so there are a few brazilian jaguars being shipped for that area in Argentina ( the ones I know of was a female and I think Jatobazinho male was one of them too ).
They also talked about one fact that is always repeated for those who don't know, there is no such thing as melanistic/black Pantanal jaguars, there's no scientific evidences of black pantanal jags and nobody never saw one at all. But there's melanistic jaguars in all other brazilian biomes Cerrado/Caatinga/Pantanal/Amazon/Atlantic Forest or maybe Pampas when there were jags.
They're studying why there's melanistic jags in some places and not in others.
Jaguars have many connectivity genetically but it doesn't mean they're identical. they also got small differences and unique characteristics similar to humans the level of genetic differences in humans between continents is little. So are with jaguars they aren't that different but got their own characteristics with small differences in genes which could probably be because of adaptation in different regions for example Amazon/Pantanal it have to do with deseases as well.
Morphologic external differences from one biome to the other: They studying these genes and look for these differences and there are some genes they're studying that seemed to have showed significant differences between the different biomes and now they figuring out what these genes do and to see the differences among the biomes.
Jaguar's bite strength: Of all big cats jaguar got the strongest bite force in terms of force measurements and strength of the canines and there's a hypothesis lauched 30 years ago it may have to do with jaguas adaptation to eat caiman and turtle with an extraodinary bite force, and through the genoma article, jaguars with prey selection different than other species jaguars got genes involved on the facial Skull development and other genes that showed jaguar adaptation that are involved on forelimbs development, jags got very strong forelimbs so it could have to do with the adaptation to predate on caimans and turtles throughout the jaguar's evolutionary history so its a very interesting discovery on the article we published and it open the doors for more studies for example is it equal in all regions? The jaguar we analysed is exclusive from Pantanal. And all these questions I hope will keep studying in the coming years.
Unfortunately due to tiger population decay the easterns their attention now are to America looking for jaguars, there was a case in Bolivia of more than 180 jaguar canines being shipped overseas, there was a case of an illegal trade of jaguar skulls that the brazilian Federal Police seized alot of jaguar skulls in northern Pará-Brazil in 2018-2019. The reason is the same ( tiger parts, rhino parts ) for medicine. In Brazil its still unknown how it works but the conservation,IBAMA and enviormental entities are trying to find out but so far the biggest issue in Brazil is retaliation poaching in agricultural areas and trophy hunting.
Study and usage of natural corridors and entities team up like Pró Carnívoros and Panthera to know the resemblances and differences between northern pantanal jaguars and southern pantanal jaguars to know how the jaguar venture crossing up north whether they go through the Paraguay River or if they go through Central Pantanal the idea is there must be a natural conexion between the populations and groups of jaguars and there may no be need of reintroduction what we aim is natural corridors.
Importance of radio collars: it shows us in a studying area the environment jaguars like so we know how jaguars use the area and what are the necessary areas cause the progress is coming and the animal is losing environment.
There were other infos as well in the Onçafari live and I can't wait for today's live, it will have a different topic, I am really looking forward to it.
So much amazing information to unpack here. I'm especially surprised that jaguars avoided predation on adult boar when they have no problem killing tapirs of a similar size, even the Central American ones, maybe they just rather choose less dangerously prey if they have access to them, I read recently that overall tapirs were avoided too. Do you know by any chance if predation on feral buffalo was discussed?
The issue of genetic diversity is worrisome, I remain optimist about the work these conservational groups are making to increase their access to corridors, hopefully they will start reintroducing natural larger prey info the biome as well.
What were details of the fight with the cougars? I'm assuming the jaguar would be dominant but who knows.
They were answering many interesting questions from the public and they are up to answer the questions on the Onçatalks and its just the beginning as we will have the whole week with Onçatalks.
The adult boar predation Ronaldo said it wasn't witnessed or reported by them as of yet but it could happen specially in case we have a determined large jag. They heard cases that Puma can predate on the cubs/calves. Large aggressive Javapigs in Brazil ( breed between Domestic Pig (Sus scrofa domesticus) and Feral Pig (Sus scrofa) ) I guess would be very hard for a Jaguar to take down but not all Javapigs are aggressive.
I think that such a predator like a jaguar want to spend the least amount of energy as possible so easier prey would be the best suited option but of course they could take down the larger ones. jaguars are very cautious hunting Giant Anteater for example due to their deadly claws ( there are many cases of humans that got killed by giant anteaters here in brazil including a pit bull who got killed as well ). Cerrado jags are the giant anteaters killer expert, of all brazilian jags they prey on giant anteater the most and yet they are very cautious. About avoiding Tapir Its interesting cause on the other hand we got Ariane female cerrado jaguar taking down a male tapir. Jaguars are just fascinating creatures the more we learn about them the more questions we got .
About predation on feral buffallo no they didn't talk about it but maybe today they will. It depends on the questions they receive and read.
About the genetic variability its a very delicate issue because for example its not just about the numbers increase we also need ''home'' for them, Atlantic Forest jaguar needs alot of areas to move even more than Pantanal jaguars, Eduardo said that genetically speaking even if we got 50 atlantic forest jaguars it is still little if we think IN LONG TERMS, so we would need much more than 50 individuals so the effective size of the population implies on how much genetic variability this population got and will keep it in long terms. so even 50 jags is already ambitious in many atlantic forest areas because to have 50 jags we will need many areas and in many fragments of Atlantic Forest there are 10-20 jaguars, very little numbers so we don't even achieve those 50 individuals. Sad truth.
And I personally think the genetic variability issue is also happening to Caatinga jaguars since there are so little of them fewer than Atlantic Forest.
Another big issue which is very common are wild animals getting run over by cars including Tapirs. They mentioned a case of a large Tapir who got ran over by car and the 2 people in the car died by the impact.
I really get pissed off when I see Maned Wolves killed by vehicles lying lifeless. The roads are one of the biggest threat for Maned Wolves and thats one of the reason they're so endangered animals. I am a Maned Wolf fan as well, they're so beautiful, unique and are Symbol of the brazilian Cerrado.
So the roads are very dangerous for wild animals and vehicles run overs plays a major negative role In the wildlife as a whole.
About the fight between Jaguar vs Puma, Joares experienced these situations he along with a capture team captured at Parque Nacional Grande Sertão Veredas a bruised Puma who fought a jaguar with bite marks on the paws, shoulders and they checked the place of the fight, Joares never saw a Puma death or carcass predated by jaguars but he saw the fight between both cats and the result is Ugly.
By his experiences I think that just the fact the Pumas surviving the jaguar fight is already an amazing feat of durability given how smaller Pumas are in those regions. But yeah I know in general they get predated by jags but you got what I meant right.
As we already know in pantanal Pumas avoid encounter with jaguars they tend to show up in certain times during the day and you won't see them if jaguars are nearby BUT they already registered one area in south pantanal a Jaguar feeding on a kill and not too far away a Puma made a kill and fed on it right on the spot not too far from the jaguar they both could see each other. Both cat relished their kill as onçafari team registered the fantastic moment.
They also said in order to prepare the capture process it takes 6 months. Onçafari team is now in the field monitoring the areas to figure out where there are more jaguars/pumas currently.
So it means there will be jags/pumas captures soon.
The only thing that bothers me alot is the fact many many times projects/institutions/conservations
don't share the weight and measurements of the jaguars specially the large ones, these animals are the main reason of their whole work so sharing the datas of the animals is a MUST DO in my opinion. just by the weight wise It already gives the people an idea of how well the conservation projects are working by knowing how large the animals are getting meaning the environment in the area as a whole is paying off as well as on prey base. but in order to know it, weights should be provided.
By the way are you gonna watch OnçaTalks today?? I am really excited
Yes I will be watching today! I will try to ask the question regarding buffalo predation because I'm highly intrigued by it. We'll share on here what we get from the live.
And I couldn't agree more with you about how frustrating it is that they won't share the weights of the largest jaguars they capture. You're absolutely right that the size of the animals is a good indicator of their health and how well they are adapting to their environments, it also gives us a better idea of their size potential. For example, it's a shame that a tank like Mick was never weighed when he was alive, I don't know about you but I personally think he was above 140 kg.
05-20-2020, 01:45 AM( This post was last modified: 05-20-2020, 02:24 AM by Dark Jaguar )
(05-20-2020, 12:38 AM)OncaAtrox Wrote:
(05-19-2020, 11:41 PM)Dark Jaguar Wrote:
(05-19-2020, 08:11 PM)OncaAtrox Wrote:
(05-19-2020, 07:26 PM)Dark Jaguar Wrote: The OnçaTalk live yesterday was fantastic.
I am gonna translate it.
they talked about jaguars genetic origins as well as the other big cats.
Jaguars are genetically similar to leopards and lions. Eduardo was part of a group of researchers on a study involving 7 countries that made all genetic sequencial of jaguars and other big cats. jaguars have ancestors traces of more than 4 million years. They compared jaguars genomes with other cats specially pantherine cats and they solved the evolutionary relationships of these species and estimated for how long they separated and they discovered there were many hibridization in the past, these species mated among themselves in the past and the genomes nowadays are mosaics of different evolutionary stories so there are pieces of the Jaguars genomes that are more related to Lions, other peices are more related to Leopards so these three species specifically are very similar genetically they diverged in less time around 2 to 3 million years which is quite recent and they have been in a moment they mated after separation.
Not necessarily these mixes and matings affected these differences on their looking,fisiology,behaviour,ecology.
These 3 species got many resemblances and many differences. the resemblances the ancestors of the 3 species had and are still kept for example the coat, the leopard and jaguar probably kept its ancestors and the lion's changed, that makes sense and these are some of the things we are studying as well.
In the first article they discovered there were regions in the genome that looked to be fruit of exchanges between jaguar and lion and these regions apperead natural selection on the jaguar in favour of characteristics that were present on the individuals they analysed.
They're still working more on this to find out more.
In the Atlantic forest they already detected evidences of loss of genetic variability in fragmented populations who suffers fragmentations that population get small and the animals become relatives to one another with little individuals they mate between themselves and start to be more alike genetically and the fragmentations start to be more different randomly.
In their first genomic analysis of wild animals from many regions of Brazil they finding evidences of variability loss, parts of genomes are equal with no variability meaning the ancestors like fathers and grandfathers were relatives. Genetically variability loss would lead jaguars to disappear. Populations with little or 0 Genetically variability have less adaptation conditions to environmental changes, if a new lethal disease occurs the jaguars with all equal individuals they will all die. So Atlantic forest situation is very worrying.
So yeah @OncaAtrox like I said yesterday its better to wait for the population rebuild in Atlantic Forest to get those base weights which will be hard and long process.
Onçafari made a mercury ( element ) research through jaguars furs. And they compared the amount of mercury in the northern region of pantanal ( porto jofre ) and southern pantanal region all at same time, same year to not have natural interferences. They found a huge amount of mercury In the northern region 40% more mercury than in southern region cause there's alot of gold mining. on an in depth study to continue this study its possible to discover if there's genetic modifications in the future but so far there's not problems. Just imagine the amount of mercury People in the region who consume fish,caimans could have. They also made diseases researches of parasites on horses/capybaras/jaguars and maybe humans. parasites related to ticks found on dogs/bovines of the area so they make these studies to understand the role of these diseases in nature.
They talked about the little population of caatinga jaguars and how small they are 30-40kg and even Caatinga Pumas sometimes are larger than Caatinga Jaguars with some of their preys being rodents, deers....
Note: regarding Caatinga Puma/Jags That's very interesting Just like I had mentioned this a few months ago that if there's a place with the smallest differences in size/dimensions between jags and pumas this place is in Caatinga.
Cerrado jaguars population is vunerable and its decaying theres risk of extinction but there's conservation projects in that region to avoid its extinction in that region.
Pampas jags as we all know they're extinct.
They also talked about other stuff like:
People hunting jaguar's preys causing impacts on jaguars/human conflicts.
Melanism (dark coat) genes on jaguars is dominat whereas on leopards is recessive.
They witnessed jaguars carrying preys up trees.
Trees shared by jaguars/pumas and other animals.
Eyewitness of wild Jaguar and wild Puma fight.
Jaguar predation on dogs.
Amazonic jags prey on monkeys up trees during flooded seasons.
Jaguar predation on Boar: jags tend to predate only on small boars and avoid the adult ones they don't have accounts of jaguars predating on adult boars they're way too aggressive. ( just imagine how aggressive a 300kg Javapig would be like )
They're helping bring jaguars to Argentina in Berá wich is very similar to the brazilian pantanal but jaguars there were extinct so there are a few brazilian jaguars being shipped for that area in Argentina ( the ones I know of was a female and I think Jatobazinho male was one of them too ).
They also talked about one fact that is always repeated for those who don't know, there is no such thing as melanistic/black Pantanal jaguars, there's no scientific evidences of black pantanal jags and nobody never saw one at all. But there's melanistic jaguars in all other brazilian biomes Cerrado/Caatinga/Pantanal/Amazon/Atlantic Forest or maybe Pampas when there were jags.
They're studying why there's melanistic jags in some places and not in others.
Jaguars have many connectivity genetically but it doesn't mean they're identical. they also got small differences and unique characteristics similar to humans the level of genetic differences in humans between continents is little. So are with jaguars they aren't that different but got their own characteristics with small differences in genes which could probably be because of adaptation in different regions for example Amazon/Pantanal it have to do with deseases as well.
Morphologic external differences from one biome to the other: They studying these genes and look for these differences and there are some genes they're studying that seemed to have showed significant differences between the different biomes and now they figuring out what these genes do and to see the differences among the biomes.
Jaguar's bite strength: Of all big cats jaguar got the strongest bite force in terms of force measurements and strength of the canines and there's a hypothesis lauched 30 years ago it may have to do with jaguas adaptation to eat caiman and turtle with an extraodinary bite force, and through the genoma article, jaguars with prey selection different than other species jaguars got genes involved on the facial Skull development and other genes that showed jaguar adaptation that are involved on forelimbs development, jags got very strong forelimbs so it could have to do with the adaptation to predate on caimans and turtles throughout the jaguar's evolutionary history so its a very interesting discovery on the article we published and it open the doors for more studies for example is it equal in all regions? The jaguar we analysed is exclusive from Pantanal. And all these questions I hope will keep studying in the coming years.
Unfortunately due to tiger population decay the easterns their attention now are to America looking for jaguars, there was a case in Bolivia of more than 180 jaguar canines being shipped overseas, there was a case of an illegal trade of jaguar skulls that the brazilian Federal Police seized alot of jaguar skulls in northern Pará-Brazil in 2018-2019. The reason is the same ( tiger parts, rhino parts ) for medicine. In Brazil its still unknown how it works but the conservation,IBAMA and enviormental entities are trying to find out but so far the biggest issue in Brazil is retaliation poaching in agricultural areas and trophy hunting.
Study and usage of natural corridors and entities team up like Pró Carnívoros and Panthera to know the resemblances and differences between northern pantanal jaguars and southern pantanal jaguars to know how the jaguar venture crossing up north whether they go through the Paraguay River or if they go through Central Pantanal the idea is there must be a natural conexion between the populations and groups of jaguars and there may no be need of reintroduction what we aim is natural corridors.
Importance of radio collars: it shows us in a studying area the environment jaguars like so we know how jaguars use the area and what are the necessary areas cause the progress is coming and the animal is losing environment.
There were other infos as well in the Onçafari live and I can't wait for today's live, it will have a different topic, I am really looking forward to it.
So much amazing information to unpack here. I'm especially surprised that jaguars avoided predation on adult boar when they have no problem killing tapirs of a similar size, even the Central American ones, maybe they just rather choose less dangerously prey if they have access to them, I read recently that overall tapirs were avoided too. Do you know by any chance if predation on feral buffalo was discussed?
The issue of genetic diversity is worrisome, I remain optimist about the work these conservational groups are making to increase their access to corridors, hopefully they will start reintroducing natural larger prey info the biome as well.
What were details of the fight with the cougars? I'm assuming the jaguar would be dominant but who knows.
They were answering many interesting questions from the public and they are up to answer the questions on the Onçatalks and its just the beginning as we will have the whole week with Onçatalks.
The adult boar predation Ronaldo said it wasn't witnessed or reported by them as of yet but it could happen specially in case we have a determined large jag. They heard cases that Puma can predate on the cubs/calves. Large aggressive Javapigs in Brazil ( breed between Domestic Pig (Sus scrofa domesticus) and Feral Pig (Sus scrofa) ) I guess would be very hard for a Jaguar to take down but not all Javapigs are aggressive.
I think that such a predator like a jaguar want to spend the least amount of energy as possible so easier prey would be the best suited option but of course they could take down the larger ones. jaguars are very cautious hunting Giant Anteater for example due to their deadly claws ( there are many cases of humans that got killed by giant anteaters here in brazil including a pit bull who got killed as well ). Cerrado jags are the giant anteaters killer expert, of all brazilian jags they prey on giant anteater the most and yet they are very cautious. About avoiding Tapir Its interesting cause on the other hand we got Ariane female cerrado jaguar taking down a male tapir. Jaguars are just fascinating creatures the more we learn about them the more questions we got .
About predation on feral buffallo no they didn't talk about it but maybe today they will. It depends on the questions they receive and read.
About the genetic variability its a very delicate issue because for example its not just about the numbers increase we also need ''home'' for them, Atlantic Forest jaguar needs alot of areas to move even more than Pantanal jaguars, Eduardo said that genetically speaking even if we got 50 atlantic forest jaguars it is still little if we think IN LONG TERMS, so we would need much more than 50 individuals so the effective size of the population implies on how much genetic variability this population got and will keep it in long terms. so even 50 jags is already ambitious in many atlantic forest areas because to have 50 jags we will need many areas and in many fragments of Atlantic Forest there are 10-20 jaguars, very little numbers so we don't even achieve those 50 individuals. Sad truth.
And I personally think the genetic variability issue is also happening to Caatinga jaguars since there are so little of them fewer than Atlantic Forest.
Another big issue which is very common are wild animals getting run over by cars including Tapirs. They mentioned a case of a large Tapir who got ran over by car and the 2 people in the car died by the impact.
I really get pissed off when I see Maned Wolves killed by vehicles lying lifeless. The roads are one of the biggest threat for Maned Wolves and thats one of the reason they're so endangered animals. I am a Maned Wolf fan as well, they're so beautiful, unique and are Symbol of the brazilian Cerrado.
So the roads are very dangerous for wild animals and vehicles run overs plays a major negative role In the wildlife as a whole.
About the fight between Jaguar vs Puma, Joares experienced these situations he along with a capture team captured at Parque Nacional Grande Sertão Veredas a bruised Puma who fought a jaguar with bite marks on the paws, shoulders and they checked the place of the fight, Joares never saw a Puma death or carcass predated by jaguars but he saw the fight between both cats and the result is Ugly.
By his experiences I think that just the fact the Pumas surviving the jaguar fight is already an amazing feat of durability given how smaller Pumas are in those regions. But yeah I know in general they get predated by jags but you got what I meant right.
As we already know in pantanal Pumas avoid encounter with jaguars they tend to show up in certain times during the day and you won't see them if jaguars are nearby BUT they already registered one area in south pantanal a Jaguar feeding on a kill and not too far away a Puma made a kill and fed on it right on the spot not too far from the jaguar they both could see each other. Both cat relished their kill as onçafari team registered the fantastic moment.
They also said in order to prepare the capture process it takes 6 months. Onçafari team is now in the field monitoring the areas to figure out where there are more jaguars/pumas currently.
So it means there will be jags/pumas captures soon.
The only thing that bothers me alot is the fact many many times projects/institutions/conservations
don't share the weight and measurements of the jaguars specially the large ones, these animals are the main reason of their whole work so sharing the datas of the animals is a MUST DO in my opinion. just by the weight wise It already gives the people an idea of how well the conservation projects are working by knowing how large the animals are getting meaning the environment in the area as a whole is paying off as well as on prey base. but in order to know it, weights should be provided.
By the way are you gonna watch OnçaTalks today?? I am really excited
Yes I will be watching today! I will try to ask the question regarding buffalo predation because I'm highly intrigued by it. We'll share on here what we get from the live.
And I couldn't agree more with you about how frustrating it is that they won't share the weights of the largest jaguars they capture. You're absolutely right that the size of the animals is a good indicator of their health and how well they are adapting to their environments, it also gives us a better idea of their size potential. For example, it's a shame that a tank like Mick was never weighed when he was alive, I don't know about you but I personally think he was above 140 kg.
Don't forget to make the questions in portuguese
Send it over and over again in case they don't see it until they read it.
Today's theme
*This image is copyright of its original author
One male I think is on the 140's range is the one with the scythe on the forehead he is lioness sized, there was a youtube channel that had many amateur footages of this male on his prime back in 2013 but unfortunately the channel got shut down for some reason. Hero male is really big, Colombiano is also incredibly giant the way he dwarfed Mancha Preta male ( 101kg ) on that video is ridiculous but at same time Mancha Preta didn't back away showing how bold jaguars are.
I wonder where the brazilian federal police took the seized jaguars skulls to ( most likely to a museum ) just imagine measuring that many skulls.
Speaking of skulls check out these two males resting together under the shades in north pantanal. Look how massive is the head of the older male.
(05-19-2020, 07:26 PM)Dark Jaguar Wrote: The OnçaTalk live yesterday was fantastic.
I am gonna translate it.
they talked about jaguars genetic origins as well as the other big cats.
Jaguars are genetically similar to leopards and lions. Eduardo was part of a group of researchers on a study involving 7 countries that made all genetic sequencial of jaguars and other big cats. jaguars have ancestors traces of more than 4 million years. They compared jaguars genomes with other cats specially pantherine cats and they solved the evolutionary relationships of these species and estimated for how long they separated and they discovered there were many hibridization in the past, these species mated among themselves in the past and the genomes nowadays are mosaics of different evolutionary stories so there are pieces of the Jaguars genomes that are more related to Lions, other peices are more related to Leopards so these three species specifically are very similar genetically they diverged in less time around 2 to 3 million years which is quite recent and they have been in a moment they mated after separation.
Not necessarily these mixes and matings affected these differences on their looking,fisiology,behaviour,ecology.
These 3 species got many resemblances and many differences. the resemblances the ancestors of the 3 species had and are still kept for example the coat, the leopard and jaguar probably kept its ancestors and the lion's changed, that makes sense and these are some of the things we are studying as well.
In the first article they discovered there were regions in the genome that looked to be fruit of exchanges between jaguar and lion and these regions apperead natural selection on the jaguar in favour of characteristics that were present on the individuals they analysed.
They're still working more on this to find out more.
In the Atlantic forest they already detected evidences of loss of genetic variability in fragmented populations who suffers fragmentations that population get small and the animals become relatives to one another with little individuals they mate between themselves and start to be more alike genetically and the fragmentations start to be more different randomly.
In their first genomic analysis of wild animals from many regions of Brazil they finding evidences of variability loss, parts of genomes are equal with no variability meaning the ancestors like fathers and grandfathers were relatives. Genetically variability loss would lead jaguars to disappear. Populations with little or 0 Genetically variability have less adaptation conditions to environmental changes, if a new lethal disease occurs the jaguars with all equal individuals they will all die. So Atlantic forest situation is very worrying.
So yeah @OncaAtrox like I said yesterday its better to wait for the population rebuild in Atlantic Forest to get those base weights which will be hard and long process.
Onçafari made a mercury ( element ) research through jaguars furs. And they compared the amount of mercury in the northern region of pantanal ( porto jofre ) and southern pantanal region all at same time, same year to not have natural interferences. They found a huge amount of mercury In the northern region 40% more mercury than in southern region cause there's alot of gold mining. on an in depth study to continue this study its possible to discover if there's genetic modifications in the future but so far there's not problems. Just imagine the amount of mercury People in the region who consume fish,caimans could have. They also made diseases researches of parasites on horses/capybaras/jaguars and maybe humans. parasites related to ticks found on dogs/bovines of the area so they make these studies to understand the role of these diseases in nature.
They talked about the little population of caatinga jaguars and how small they are 30-40kg and even Caatinga Pumas sometimes are larger than Caatinga Jaguars with some of their preys being rodents, deers....
Note: regarding Caatinga Puma/Jags That's very interesting Just like I had mentioned this a few months ago that if there's a place with the smallest differences in size/dimensions between jags and pumas this place is in Caatinga.
Cerrado jaguars population is vunerable and its decaying theres risk of extinction but there's conservation projects in that region to avoid its extinction in that region.
Pampas jags as we all know they're extinct.
They also talked about other stuff like:
People hunting jaguar's preys causing impacts on jaguars/human conflicts.
Melanism (dark coat) genes on jaguars is dominat whereas on leopards is recessive.
They witnessed jaguars carrying preys up trees.
Trees shared by jaguars/pumas and other animals.
Eyewitness of wild Jaguar and wild Puma fight.
Jaguar predation on dogs.
Amazonic jags prey on monkeys up trees during flooded seasons.
Jaguar predation on Boar: jags tend to predate only on small boars and avoid the adult ones they don't have accounts of jaguars predating on adult boars they're way too aggressive. ( just imagine how aggressive a 300kg Javapig would be like )
They're helping bring jaguars to Argentina in Berá wich is very similar to the brazilian pantanal but jaguars there were extinct so there are a few brazilian jaguars being shipped for that area in Argentina ( the ones I know of was a female and I think Jatobazinho male was one of them too ).
They also talked about one fact that is always repeated for those who don't know, there is no such thing as melanistic/black Pantanal jaguars, there's no scientific evidences of black pantanal jags and nobody never saw one at all. But there's melanistic jaguars in all other brazilian biomes Cerrado/Caatinga/Pantanal/Amazon/Atlantic Forest or maybe Pampas when there were jags.
They're studying why there's melanistic jags in some places and not in others.
Jaguars have many connectivity genetically but it doesn't mean they're identical. they also got small differences and unique characteristics similar to humans the level of genetic differences in humans between continents is little. So are with jaguars they aren't that different but got their own characteristics with small differences in genes which could probably be because of adaptation in different regions for example Amazon/Pantanal it have to do with deseases as well.
Morphologic external differences from one biome to the other: They studying these genes and look for these differences and there are some genes they're studying that seemed to have showed significant differences between the different biomes and now they figuring out what these genes do and to see the differences among the biomes.
Jaguar's bite strength: Of all big cats jaguar got the strongest bite force in terms of force measurements and strength of the canines and there's a hypothesis lauched 30 years ago it may have to do with jaguas adaptation to eat caiman and turtle with an extraodinary bite force, and through the genoma article, jaguars with prey selection different than other species jaguars got genes involved on the facial Skull development and other genes that showed jaguar adaptation that are involved on forelimbs development, jags got very strong forelimbs so it could have to do with the adaptation to predate on caimans and turtles throughout the jaguar's evolutionary history so its a very interesting discovery on the article we published and it open the doors for more studies for example is it equal in all regions? The jaguar we analysed is exclusive from Pantanal. And all these questions I hope will keep studying in the coming years.
Unfortunately due to tiger population decay the easterns their attention now are to America looking for jaguars, there was a case in Bolivia of more than 180 jaguar canines being shipped overseas, there was a case of an illegal trade of jaguar skulls that the brazilian Federal Police seized alot of jaguar skulls in northern Pará-Brazil in 2018-2019. The reason is the same ( tiger parts, rhino parts ) for medicine. In Brazil its still unknown how it works but the conservation,IBAMA and enviormental entities are trying to find out but so far the biggest issue in Brazil is retaliation poaching in agricultural areas and trophy hunting.
Study and usage of natural corridors and entities team up like Pró Carnívoros and Panthera to know the resemblances and differences between northern pantanal jaguars and southern pantanal jaguars to know how the jaguar venture crossing up north whether they go through the Paraguay River or if they go through Central Pantanal the idea is there must be a natural conexion between the populations and groups of jaguars and there may no be need of reintroduction what we aim is natural corridors.
Importance of radio collars: it shows us in a studying area the environment jaguars like so we know how jaguars use the area and what are the necessary areas cause the progress is coming and the animal is losing environment.
There were other infos as well in the Onçafari live and I can't wait for today's live, it will have a different topic, I am really looking forward to it.
So much amazing information to unpack here. I'm especially surprised that jaguars avoided predation on adult boar when they have no problem killing tapirs of a similar size, even the Central American ones, maybe they just rather choose less dangerously prey if they have access to them, I read recently that overall tapirs were avoided too. Do you know by any chance if predation on feral buffalo was discussed?
The issue of genetic diversity is worrisome, I remain optimist about the work these conservational groups are making to increase their access to corridors, hopefully they will start reintroducing natural larger prey info the biome as well.
What were details of the fight with the cougars? I'm assuming the jaguar would be dominant but who knows.
They were answering many interesting questions from the public and they are up to answer the questions on the Onçatalks and its just the beginning as we will have the whole week with Onçatalks.
The adult boar predation Ronaldo said it wasn't witnessed or reported by them as of yet but it could happen specially in case we have a determined large jag. They heard cases that Puma can predate on the cubs/calves. Large aggressive Javapigs in Brazil ( breed between Domestic Pig (Sus scrofa domesticus) and Feral Pig (Sus scrofa) ) I guess would be very hard for a Jaguar to take down but not all Javapigs are aggressive.
I think that such a predator like a jaguar want to spend the least amount of energy as possible so easier prey would be the best suited option but of course they could take down the larger ones. jaguars are very cautious hunting Giant Anteater for example due to their deadly claws ( there are many cases of humans that got killed by giant anteaters here in brazil including a pit bull who got killed as well ). Cerrado jags are the giant anteaters killer expert, of all brazilian jags they prey on giant anteater the most and yet they are very cautious. About avoiding Tapir Its interesting cause on the other hand we got Ariane female cerrado jaguar taking down a male tapir. Jaguars are just fascinating creatures the more we learn about them the more questions we got .
About predation on feral buffallo no they didn't talk about it but maybe today they will. It depends on the questions they receive and read.
About the genetic variability its a very delicate issue because for example its not just about the numbers increase we also need ''home'' for them, Atlantic Forest jaguar needs alot of areas to move even more than Pantanal jaguars, Eduardo said that genetically speaking even if we got 50 atlantic forest jaguars it is still little if we think IN LONG TERMS, so we would need much more than 50 individuals so the effective size of the population implies on how much genetic variability this population got and will keep it in long terms. so even 50 jags is already ambitious in many atlantic forest areas because to have 50 jags we will need many areas and in many fragments of Atlantic Forest there are 10-20 jaguars, very little numbers so we don't even achieve those 50 individuals. Sad truth.
And I personally think the genetic variability issue is also happening to Caatinga jaguars since there are so little of them fewer than Atlantic Forest.
Another big issue which is very common are wild animals getting run over by cars including Tapirs. They mentioned a case of a large Tapir who got ran over by car and the 2 people in the car died by the impact.
I really get pissed off when I see Maned Wolves killed by vehicles lying lifeless. The roads are one of the biggest threat for Maned Wolves and thats one of the reason they're so endangered animals. I am a Maned Wolf fan as well, they're so beautiful, unique and are Symbol of the brazilian Cerrado.
So the roads are very dangerous for wild animals and vehicles run overs plays a major negative role In the wildlife as a whole.
About the fight between Jaguar vs Puma, Joares experienced these situations he along with a capture team captured at Parque Nacional Grande Sertão Veredas a bruised Puma who fought a jaguar with bite marks on the paws, shoulders and they checked the place of the fight, Joares never saw a Puma death or carcass predated by jaguars but he saw the fight between both cats and the result is Ugly.
By his experiences I think that just the fact the Pumas surviving the jaguar fight is already an amazing feat of durability given how smaller Pumas are in those regions. But yeah I know in general they get predated by jags but you got what I meant right.
As we already know in pantanal Pumas avoid encounter with jaguars they tend to show up in certain times during the day and you won't see them if jaguars are nearby BUT they already registered one area in south pantanal a Jaguar feeding on a kill and not too far away a Puma made a kill and fed on it right on the spot not too far from the jaguar they both could see each other. Both cat relished their kill as onçafari team registered the fantastic moment.
They also said in order to prepare the capture process it takes 6 months. Onçafari team is now in the field monitoring the areas to figure out where there are more jaguars/pumas currently.
So it means there will be jags/pumas captures soon.
The only thing that bothers me alot is the fact many many times projects/institutions/conservations
don't share the weight and measurements of the jaguars specially the large ones, these animals are the main reason of their whole work so sharing the datas of the animals is a MUST DO in my opinion. just by the weight wise It already gives the people an idea of how well the conservation projects are working by knowing how large the animals are getting meaning the environment in the area as a whole is paying off as well as on prey base. but in order to know it, weights should be provided.
By the way are you gonna watch OnçaTalks today?? I am really excited
Yes I will be watching today! I will try to ask the question regarding buffalo predation because I'm highly intrigued by it. We'll share on here what we get from the live.
And I couldn't agree more with you about how frustrating it is that they won't share the weights of the largest jaguars they capture. You're absolutely right that the size of the animals is a good indicator of their health and how well they are adapting to their environments, it also gives us a better idea of their size potential. For example, it's a shame that a tank like Mick was never weighed when he was alive, I don't know about you but I personally think he was above 140 kg.
Don't forget to make the questions in portuguese
Send it over and over again in case they don't see it until they read it.
Today's theme
*This image is copyright of its original author
One male I think is on the 140's range is the one with the scythe on the forehead he is lioness sized, there was a youtube channel that had many amateur footages of this male on his prime back in 2013 but unfortunately the channel got shut down for some reason. Hero male is really big, Colombiano is also incredibly giant the way he dwarfed Mancha Preta male ( 101kg ) on that video is ridiculous but at same time Mancha Preta didn't back away showing how bold jaguars are.
I wonder where the brazilian federal police took the seized jaguars skulls to ( most likely to a museum ) just imagine measuring that many skulls.
Speaking of skulls check out these two males resting together under the shades in north pantanal. Look how massive is the head of the older male.
These dominant males are so big it's ridiculous, those skulls are easily above 300mm in length. They are lioness/tigresses sized but bulkier.
Colombiano in my opinion could be approaching 150 kg.
05-20-2020, 05:16 AM( This post was last modified: 05-20-2020, 05:18 AM by peter )
DARK JAGUAR
The thread is developing very nicely. I only see good info on wild jaguars. Contributions of OncaAtrox also much appreciated. Keep it coming. The jaguar certainly deserves it. Many thanks on behalf of all.
05-20-2020, 11:03 PM( This post was last modified: 05-20-2020, 11:19 PM by Dark Jaguar )
Thank you very much @peter I absolutely agree, jaguars deserve detailed attention specially on each population they got in different places and countries.
@OncaAtrox One more live today
Prey vs. predators: "attack" strategy used by peccaries to "dribble" jaguars
Recently our team published a technical-scientific study that reports a rare behavior observed among prey and predators in the Pantanal. The study addresses interactions between jaguars (Panthera onca) and peccaries (Tayassu pecari) in an anti-predatory strategy known as mobbing, which means "attack". This behavior is eventually used by species of prey living in groups. In this strategy individuals in the flock attack or chase a predator until it gives up and/or leaves the area. In this way the prey is able to "dodge" their predators increasing their chances of survival individually and in the group.
Cases observed during the study.
Jaguars and jaguars coexist throughout most of their areas of occurrence on the American continent. The work in question was developed within one of the areas studied by our team: the broad base of ecotourism and research of Onçafari the Ecological Refuge Caiman located in the Brazilian Pantanal. It is known that peccaries are one of the main wild prey of jaguars in this area but one of the most dangerous. This species of prey lives in groups that can reach more than 100 individuals presenting very aggressive behavior in the presence of a predator. In the research published in Acta Ethologica magazine we presented and evaluated three interactions in which the jaguars led to the best in these meetings.
Two cases of mobbing were recorded by photographic traps during our routine research. The third case was observed directly by one of our biologists during daily monitoring.
First case
The first event took place in November 2016. A female monitored by the team known as Estrela ( Star in portuguese ) tried to climb a fig tree carrying a capybara that she had hunted. After three frustrated attempts to climb a group of peccaries approached and chased her and her 8-month-old cub named Cometa ( Comet in portuguese ) tucking them high on the fig tree. The whole episode lasted about 22 hours and for almost 10 hours (non-consecutive) Estrela and Cometa stayed high up in the tree. After the group of peccaries left the area on the next morning Estrela came down and tried to climb the tree with the capybara again but without success. Then she and Cometa came down and probably went to feed on the carcass.
Cometa cub climbing the tree with its mom Estrela moments before the peccaries arrival.
*This image is copyright of its original author
Both cornered by a group of peccaries.
*This image is copyright of its original author
Second case
The second event was observed in May 2017 by Onçafari biologist Eduardo Fragoso in which a group of 15 peccaries chased and attacked Gaia another female monitored by the team. Gaia climbed a tree where she remained for 40 minutes until the peccaries group left. Then she came down safely and walked away from the scene.
Gaia female up the tree cornered by group of peccaries.
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
Third case
The third event published in this article occurred in September 2017 when our photographic traps recorded Fera female jaguar being watched inside a shackle (concrete tube under the road) by a group of peccaries which they all were erect and knocking their teeth out. Fera remained inside the shackle showing her teeth and trying to aggressively expel the peccaries which left the area. Months before this record Fera had already been spotted by the team feeding on a pecari hunted by her inside a shackle.
Conclusion
Our team suggests that mobbing behavior probably depends on the size of the group of peccaries and how close the individuals in the group are to each other. Individuals who are further away from the rest of the group are more vulnerable to predation usually leading to worse in encounters with jaguars as has also been observed by our team. We concluded that this collective behavior is very advantageous for the prey-species because it considerably reduces the chances of success of the predator.
Giant Otters have also been recorded presenting mobbing behavior to expel jaguars from the river banks and thus protect the group especially the young ones which are more vulnerable to predation.
Note: In one video I watched Leandro Silveira states there is cases of jaguars getting killed by group of peccaries. So peccaries in groups are no joke.
By: Programa Amigos da Onça ( friends of the jaguar project in portuguese )
The story of the rescue of a female caatinga jaguar in Bahia that was trapped in a cave with its entrance blocked by rocks, she spent 22 days in there with no food and water at all.
Victim of a historical hinterland conflict, jaguar spent weeks trapped inside a cave until saved by researchers.
*This image is copyright of its original author
Biologist Cláudia Campos was working in the backlands of Bahia when the news came through WhatsApp. According to the message residents of a rural community in the north of the state had chased and imprisoned a jaguar inside a tunnel on the edge of a cave after it killed a sheep.
The story was worrying - jaguars are critically endangered in the Caatinga (although they are still abundant in the Pantanal and Amazon) and the community in question is on the banks of the Boqueirão da Onça National Park created in April 2018 precisely for the purpose of protecting these last rare cats of the biome. But it was also doubtful - after all jaguar stories are like fisherman stories almost always filled with a good dose of folklore and exaggeration.
Was it really a jaguar or a puma? Maybe an ocelot? And was it really trapped in the cave or had it already escaped through some other hole? Only by going there to find out. "Theoretically it was there trapped. But the story was very incomplete full of uncertainties" recalls Claudia.
A veteran researcher at the Instituto Pró-Carnívoros (IPC), which has been in the region for 13 years she knows the logistical social and environmental challenges of working inside the Caatinga. Her first decision was to return to Petrolina on the other side of the São Francisco River to find out more about the history and to assemble a rescue team if necessary. The information came from the zap of a resident of the community of Sanharó who found out about the event and was worried about the animal.
The date was May 19th and the jaguar was supposedly trapped in the cave for six days. Cláudia recruited the help of three veterinarians (two from the Universidade Federal do Vale do São Francisco and one from the army battalion in Petrolina) organized a small expedition and left for the site 325 kilometers away in the rural area of Sento Sé in the middle of Bahia's Caatinga.
Upon arriving in the community Cláudia spoke with the girl who had sent her messages and with one of the men who had pursued the jaguar. A classic sertanejo, a goat and sheep farmer. The man told that he and two other compadres had followed the trail of a dead sheep's body to the edge of a dolina - a large hole formed by the erosion of limestone rocks - filled to the top by the green canopy of two large juazeiros.
In the Google Earth image, the red outline is the Boqueirão da Onça National Park, and the yellow outline is the Boqueirão da Onça APA. The red pin shows the location of the Dolina where the jaguar was rescued
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The blood trail indicated that the sheep had been dragged into a small tunnel at the edge of the sinkhole, approximately 1 meter in diameter. Contrary to common sense two of the men decided to sneak through the tunnel taking two dogs ahead. It didn't take long they ran into the jaguar. She grappled the dogs and put everyone to run with a growl.
Luckily nobody was hurt. Even so before retreating the men closed the tunnel entrance with a bunch of rocks imprisoning the jaguar.
A conflict of predators
Rescue required rappelling equipment to reach the tunnel and beekeeping clothing to protect himself from bee attacks. Photo: Programa Amigos da Onça
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The conflict between men and jaguars is historic in Caatinga. Where resources are scarce and life is already difficult by nature, there is little room to cultivate friendship among predators - even more so in the dry soil of the sertão.
Most of the sertanejos ( local people ) in the region survive on the land and goat and sheep farming, which are left free to roam the Caatinga in search of food. Time and time again, some of them end up even turning into jaguar food. But there are other dangers too. It is common for animals to die of thirst, hunger, disease, snake bites and even attacked by other hungry domestic animals such as dogs and pigs.
"But it's always the jaguar that's to blame" says Portuguese researcher Cláudia Guerreiro Martins, an agronomist and PhD student in Applied Ecology at the Interunities Graduate Program (PPGI-EA) at the University of São Paulo (USP) on the Piracicaba campus which studies relations between humans and wild animals at Caatinga, in collaboration with the Friends of the Jaguar Program at the Pró-Carnívoros Institute.
" The jaguar moves people's imaginary and emotions a lot " says Cláudia. "Whether or not they have had some experience with the animal everyone has an opinion about it. There are people who have never seen a jaguar in their lives but they tell you the story of the guy who got killed by a jaguar 50 years ago."
A fundamental part of Cláudia's research involves the identification of "conflict determinants". That is what are the feelings, fears, interests and different social environmental or economic factors that lead human beings to confront the jaguars in the Caatinga. According to her it is common for people to refer to jaguars as "perverse" animals because they prey on the animals on which they depend for their livelihood. But there are also positive feelings such as admiration and empathy which emerge when the conversation is conducted in a more friendly manner.
"Many people say that the jaguar is perverse but later recognize that they enter the field out of hunger; because there is no more food in the bush," says Cláudia drawing attention to the problem of hunting - a cultural habit (but illegal) of the sertanejo ( local people ) which ends with the collared peccaries, white lipped peccaries, deers, cotias, armadillos and other wild animals which should be the natural food of jaguars in the Caatinga. The smaller the population of wild prey the more likely the cats are to attack domestic animals for food. "Then you realize that this antagonistic relationship between animals and humans is punctual," says the researcher.
A light at the end of the tunnel
The green canopy of the jaguar emerges from the dolly where the jaguar took refuge, and ends up imprisoned - Photorograma Amigos da Onça
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After talking to the man from Sanharó, it became clear to Cláudia and her team that it was necessary to go to the dolina to rescue the jaguar. "He was not comfortable with what he had done and agreed to accompany us to the site" says the researcher.
As soon as they got there, however, it was obvious that the rescue would not be that simple. Besides the tunnel being small, difficult to access and stuck to the edge of a hole, the walls of the dolina through which the researchers needed to go down to get to him were lined with hives of wild Africanized bees "very aggressive and dangerous". "If they decided to attack us they could kill everyone" says Cláudia. "It was a real risk of death. I couldn't even sneeze."
As much as they wanted to save the animal, they couldn't put their own lives in danger. So they went back to Petrolina without knowing how far the tunnel was going and whether the jaguar was still inside it, alive or dead.
The tunnel entrance was closed with rocks to imprison the jaguar - Photo: Programa Amigos da Onça
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At that point, it had been ten days since the animal was trapped, theoretically without water or food - besides the sheep she had dragged into the hole. The possibility of the jaguar dying was great but Cláudia could not give up. It is estimated that there are only 30 jaguars left in the Boqueirão region - in an area of 7,000 km2 five times larger than the municipality of São Paulo. "In such a small population any individual less is a gigantic loss" explains Cláudia.
Cláudia Campos shows in the cave where the jaguar was found. Photo: Programa Amigos da Onça
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Finally, The rescue
Rescue team goes down the Dolina with the trap box made to capture the jaguar without hurting her - Photo: Programa Amigos da Onça
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Cláudia returned to Petrolina and immediately began to organize a new expedition; this time, with the additional participation of a speleologist (cave specialist) a biologist two field assistants from the Friends of the Jaguar Program and four firemen from Juazeiro specialized in the elimination of hives - which are also a threat in urban areas of the region.
They returned to the site on May 1 and set up camp near the hole. It had been 19 days since the jaguar was trapped.
On the same night, the firemen went to the dolina to remove the hives. They returned at dawn to the camp exhausted and with bad news. They were too many hives, too many bees; there was no way to eliminate them all. The rescue team would then have to go down the rappelling doll and do all the rescue work wearing beekeeping clothes to protect themselves from insects. And so it was done.
The operation was scheduled for the following day May 2nd. It was decided to work at night when the bees are sleeping to minimize the risk of an attack. The vertical distance from the edge of the dolly to the tunnel entrance was approximately 100 meters.
Four rescue workers went down the rappel hole removed the stones and put a box of almost 100 kilos in the mouth of the tunnel designed to close automatically if the jaguar entered it. At 4 a.m. on day 3 they returned to check the trap and there was the jaguar inside it. Severely malnourished and debilitated but alive!
"It was a gigantic adrenaline rush; the heart came into her mouth " recalls Claudia. "It made me sick on time. I had to deal with it too (laughs)." The bees behaved well during the process (they only got angry when they turned on the lanterns) and nobody was hurt.
Team prepares to return to Petrolina with the jaguar - Photo: Programa Amigos da Onça
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The jaguar was sedated still inside the box and taken by truck to a Sorting Center for Wild Animals (Cetas) at the Univasf campus in Petrolina. In the end it was 22 days in prison of which Claudia estimates that she remained at least 15 without eating or drinking anything after consuming the sheep. "It's incredible that she survived."
In honor of the daughter of a colleague who was born on the same day as the rescue the jaguar was named Luisa. She is an adult female approximately 10 years old 50 centimeters high and 1 meter long - the size of a large dog. The jaguars of the Caatinga are naturally smaller than those of other biomes as a result of an evolutionary adaptation to the vegetation and climate of the region (being smaller they need less food, less water, spend less energy and regulate the body temperature more easily). "They are smaller but no less strong," warns Cláudia. "They have a surprising strength."
Future
Already strong and healthy again Luísa is still under observation at Cetas da Univasf closely followed by the experts. The intention eventually is to return her to nature equipped with a GPS collar so that researchers can track her steps, monitor her health and learn more about her behavior in nature - thus generating essential knowledge to guide the conservation of the species and its coexistence with human beings in the biome.
Rescue team: Rogério Dell'Antonio (speleologist at Egric - Espeleo Grupo Rio Claro/SP); Sgt. Josenilton Santos (biologist and veterinarian of the 72nd Army Motorized Infantry Battalion); Fábio Walker and Fabrício Silva (veterinarians at Cemafauna/Univasf); Paulo Reis (biologist); Ismael Silva and Mariano Jesus (field assistants). The GPS collar was donated by Enel Green Power Brasil and the Onçafari Project through partner company Pandhora Technologies.
Researcher Cláudia Campos prepares to install a GPS collar on the anesthetized jaguar - Photo: Programa Amigos da Onça
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Luísa caatinga female already recovered after being rescued from the cave.
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Back to Caatinga
credits: Onçafari which whom made a special post of Luísa's story.
After all the examinations to check and ensure Luisa's health, the team prepared to take her to the release site.
Being a wild animal not used to the presence of vehicles and/or human beings, the first reaction of the jaguar was to attack the cars. It was in a moment of stress, without understanding exactly what was happening so its first reaction, as predicted, was defense.
After the first "scare" the jaguar followed its way into Caatinga. By means of the monitoring equipment the team made sure that she had really returned to her natural area and with this guaranteed the success of the operation.
The jaguar is still being monitored by the Friends of the Jaguar team. With the information collected by the radio-collar the professionals gain more knowledge about the animal about the biome and are able to act more effectively in the conservation of both.
Luísa Caatinga female during the release moment back to the wild Caatinga.
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When she was rescued on May 3rd Luíza caatinga female jaguar measured 58 centimeters high and 1 meter long, she was very weak, dehydrated and malnourished weighing only 35kg.
After the treatment the feline returned to her natural habitat with 46kg. She was given a monitoring collar and is accompanied by the members of the Programa Amigos da Onça through satellite.
Jaguars of Brazil - Dynamics,Lifestyle,Datas,Studies,Reports
. Yes those two jags with 130kg and 135kg are Pantanal males.
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