(06-11-2021, 04:20 PM)LoveAnimals Wrote: Kodiak bear and human. My favorite bear species

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Leopards and Jaguars are among the most extraordinary predators.
One can weigh up to 90–95 kgs possibly a little more whereas the other can touch 150 kgs.

Imagine an hybrid between these beasts.
A 400 pound Lepjag!

*This image is copyright of its original author

@Balam  can this hybrid give us the idea of the size of Panthera Onca Augusta or Panthera Onca Mesembrina? It's nice to speculate

(06-11-2021, 05:01 PM)Hello Wrote: offense,He doesn't look 400 lbs,not even 300 .Trainers usually overestimate weights.

(06-10-2021, 10:51 PM)LoveAnimals Wrote:

(06-10-2021, 08:47 PM)Pckts Wrote: You’re comparing two different positions not to mention one had humans behind it to embellish the size.

Yes the people in the jaguar photo I posted are farer than the camera but if you virtually put them to the same level the size difference will be basically the same to the one of the leopard i posted.
This is another pic of the jaguar with a person next to it.

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Imagine if the person stood up, the difference wouldn't be much if not non existent compared to this.

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Being more robust doesn't **always** mean being more heavy to be honest, I am a gym guy since 2 years and despite this I am more muscular than my class mate but just weigh as much as him, about 80 kgs, and he doesn't even do workout nor he is fat.
He is 1.83 I am 1.81 so not even much height difference
Ok silly comparison, just wanted to say that as you already know Jaguars even on same size are more robust than leopards and its not depend from individual to individual , it's how the two species are naturally built.
As example, I compared these two anatomy models and scaled both on same size and despite this, the jaguar is still more builky and robust than the leopard.

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That's because of their evolution, leopards adapted more gracile bodies to be the top climbers of the Panthera family and evolved as secondary predators, whereas Jaguars, as they are no near leopards in terms of climbing (which might be the reason why Jaguars have proportionally shorter legs to their body dimensions, also because long legs in rainforest wouldn't help much) and are apex predators evolved in a totally different environment, evolved a stockier and builker body.
Even the Mexican Jaguar or the smallest jaguar population, who overlaps even the largest leopards populations in terms of size, looks builker than most average leopards (but if we take note of 80–92+kg leopards I'd say they are the same).
The leopard needs a bigger size to look more builky.
Some leopards (mostly from Iran, Aberdares, Kenya and Kwa Zulu Natal) grow huge and muscular enough to match these jaguars, not the Panthanal, Llanos and Venezuelian ones of course they would get dwarfed by them.
It is the same with leopards compared to cougars, on same size leopards are more robustly built than cougars, who nedd to be bigger to seem much more robust.
Switch cougar with Jaguar and it's the Jaguar who is more robust, even at same size (same size = same weight).
That's how they are built. 

Still, they really seem to be of the same size.

Quote:Being more robust doesn't **always** mean being more heavy to be honest, I am a gym guy since 2 years and despite this I am more muscular than my class mate but just weigh as much as him, about 80 kgs, and he doesn't even do workout nor he is fat.
He is 1.83 I am 1.81 so not even much height difference
Ok silly comparison, just wanted to say that as you already know Jaguars even on same size are more robust than leopards and its not depend from individual to individual , it's how the two species are naturally built.
As example, I compared these two anatomy models and scaled both on same size and despite this, the jaguar is still more builky and robust than the leopard.

(06-11-2021, 04:20 PM)LoveAnimals Wrote: Kodiak bear and human. My favorite bear species

*This image is copyright of its original author

Leopards and Jaguars are among the most extraordinary predators.
One can weigh up to 90–95 kgs possibly a little more whereas the other can touch 150 kgs.

Imagine an hybrid between these beasts.
A 400 pound Lepjag!

*This image is copyright of its original author

@Balam  can this hybrid give us the idea of the size of Panthera Onca Augusta or Panthera Onca Mesembrina? It's nice to speculate

(06-11-2021, 10:09 PM)Pckts Wrote: Using that example you must understand body type differences ( ectomorph, endomorph and mesomorph) and how a specific body type distributes weight. Even though you may be similar height, your "class mate" may carry his weight differently. Not to make it weird but if you were to stand side by side without clothes on, you'd be able to notice the weight distribution differences. Not to mention if you're in shape and weigh the same as him with him being out of shape, you would generally have a smaller waste, broader shoulders and more defined limbs while he would probably have a flabby stomach and carry more weight in his midsection. 

(06-11-2021, 10:09 PM)Pckts Wrote: But like you said, we're talking about two cats that are very similar in dimensions but one *the jaguar* will have a larger chest and midsection with bigger limb girth and thus it's going to be the more robust cat. You can also tell that from when they lay flat, the Jaguar is bulkier, it's body sits higher off the ground while the Leopard sinks closer to the ground, it just doesn't have the same lb for lb muscle distribution that the Jaguar does.

(06-12-2021, 12:07 AM)LoveAnimals Wrote:

(06-11-2021, 10:09 PM)Pckts Wrote: Using that example you must understand body type differences ( ectomorph, endomorph and mesomorph) and how a specific body type distributes weight. Even though you may be similar height, your "class mate" may carry his weight differently. Not to make it weird but if you were to stand side by side without clothes on, you'd be able to notice the weight distribution differences. Not to mention if you're in shape and weigh the same as him with him being out of shape, you would generally have a smaller waste, broader shoulders and more defined limbs while he would probably have a flabby stomach and carry more weight in his midsection. 

Yes when we actually do sport at scholl and we have to change dresses we like compare to eatch other and his waists are much wider than mines, whereas i am bulk (I'll never cut I prefer bulk). So you're right on that we carry body mass in a different way.

(06-11-2021, 10:09 PM)Pckts Wrote: But like you said, we're talking about two cats that are very similar in dimensions but one *the jaguar* will have a larger chest and midsection with bigger limb girth and thus it's going to be the more robust cat. You can also tell that from when they lay flat, the Jaguar is bulkier, it's body sits higher off the ground while the Leopard sinks closer to the ground, it just doesn't have the same lb for lb muscle distribution that the Jaguar does.

Exactly, even though the two cats are about the same weight with one simple kg in favour of the leopard, the jaguar is still the builker one because its mass is accumulated in muscles, whereas the Persian leopard, living in a colder environment, might be that heavy also thanks to a little of fat accumulation just like North Emisphere cougars but that's only my opinion.
If you want another comparison, take example of Mawenzi, an 83 kg big male of Namibia. Look at its frame, an impressive male huh?

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Well, now compare it to this 85 kg jaguaress posted on “Modern weight and measurements for wild Jaguars”. Maybe it was even posted by you

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*This image is copyright of its original author

Even though the jaguaress is 2 kg heavier the difference in numbers is insignificant, the real difference is how the jaguaress is much more muscular.
About weight they are about equal but when you look at the jaguaress’ frame and biceps you see how she seems to outmuscle definitely Mawenzi even though she is JUST 2 kg heavier which is basically nothing.
If i didn't know her weight if you compared her to mawenzi i would have said she is 16 +kgs heavier just to show you the impression she gave to me.

So that's why I say that the 95 kg persian should be confirmed. After this comparison between Mawenzi and the 85 kg jaguaress you probably have no doubts that even if the jaguar will be definitely builker the leopard can still carry the same bodymass despite not being as much as muscular. 
I guess we can all agree now

(06-12-2021, 01:44 AM)Pckts Wrote: I absolutely agree, and the only reason I take issue with the Persian at all is because of the multiple weight discrepancies that have occurred  over the years.