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Poll: Who is the largest tiger?
Amur tiger
Bengal tiger
They are equal
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Who is the "king" of tigers? - Bengal or Amur

United States Pckts Offline
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AHHHH It wont let me post the image of the siberians and bengals together.
You guys can't see the one I posted yesterday?
I can see it on my end.

*This image is copyright of its original author
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India sanjay Online
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@Pckts , You are using your google gmail account to show images. It's making problem.

You need to upload that images on wildfact or you can upload it to some image hosting website and can then link it. Or use the imgur image uploader form the text editor to upload image on imgur.
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United States Pckts Offline
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*This image is copyright of its original author


*This image is copyright of its original author


*This image is copyright of its original author


*This image is copyright of its original author


*This image is copyright of its original author


*This image is copyright of its original author


*This image is copyright of its original author


*This image is copyright of its original author
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United States Pckts Offline
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Whelp, Imgur kept giving me a error display when I tried it there, anyway, here all the pages should be visible between the last two pages of the thread. Only page missing is page 36 from what I can see.
Can you guys see all the pages that are visible?
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Sri Lanka Apollo Offline
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None of the images are visible [img]images/smilies/sad.gif[/img]
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United States Pckts Offline
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*This image is copyright of its original author

Small image, but Ceasar is on the left, Camboge (largest siberian 2nd to right and Bengali is the furthest right) The bengal to the right of caesar is a female and the rest in the middle are bengal males.
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United States Pckts Offline
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(05-13-2014, 11:24 PM)'Apollo' Wrote: None of the images are visible [img]images/smilies/sad.gif[/img]

 
Unreal, well I just google translated it and will copy and paste the chapter right here

CHAPTER IV

 

 

 
COCKTAIL SIBERIA - BENGAL

 

Before the influx of predators who never ceased to enrich the collection of the Zoo- Circus , I had soon consider finding assistants. I entrusted the number of bears in my first student Votjeck Trubka , adding to its class three bears in Russia. The assimilation of this new contingent was rapid. The Dutch trainer Johnny Kok , I réservai presenting our lions in a single number that would give the cage an air of subway car at rush hour . As for me , tigers became my passion. So I considered to present all four Bengal tigers which I spoke and three Siberian tigers , which the seller

menagerie Laurent had assured me they would kill the first invariably and I might share the same fate.

Barely three months separating us from the opening of the season. I knew these three Siberians nothing but their names Caesar, Bengali , Cambodia. Yet I knew that at Laurent tamer " Georgian " was entered into cage with them. But their training was poor. Already adults, they certainly require great caution.

Rehearsals began immediately after their arrival and I decided to work one by one.

Armed with a heavy chair (1 ) and a whip, I entered the cage , having, near the door , placed Johny Kok , with a club and a revolver. I did introduce Caesar. Upon entry , the tiger was panicked , perhaps because of his loneliness in the vast circular cage, or as a result of the surprise he felt at the surrounding scenery , or frightened by the accessories I was placed in the cage to take shelter in case of sudden attack. In one leap , roaring , he tried to escape through which he had entered , but the door is closed, a great header that stunned a little, he twisted the iron bars of the door of communication .

He remained there for a few seconds , turning suddenly looking for a way out , he saw me on the other side of the cage. Silent, crestfallen , hair bristling , tail wagging like a cat before a mouse, he walked slowly towards me. I was not mistaken in me , he was preparing to attack. Jumping aside, I placed myself in haste behind a large stools. Caesar was still moving , eye burning like an ember . I was convinced he was going to pounce on me. Dropping my chair , grabbed with both hands the heavy stool that stood before me, and at the same time that I cried energetically : "Caesar in place! " With all my strength , I threw her stool at the head .

He stopped , uttered a tremendous roar and , under the influence of terror , he tried to jump to jump out of the cage. He turned like a cat and fell heavily on his feet , running away this time on the opposite side to mine.

For a long time , I let him move his fancy , only to find myself avoiding his path. Gradually, he calmed down somewhat , but it was impossible to approach .

 

(1) At the beginning of my career I used a chair as protection. Later I replaced the chair with a fork and supprimais the revolver is useless .

 

 As soon as I walked towards him, he uttered a roar to shake the windows of the hangar , ready to pounce on me. After much effort and many attempts , I managed only to reduce the distance between us , about three meters. I took the wooden chair and whip. Again, he became threatening ; I take the big stool, but this time , I had neither the time nor the chance to throw him in the head, Caesar fled and cowered on the other side of the cage.

So I stayed a good half hour with my tiger, with no other ambition, for the moment, as the used to me .

When he appeared recovered from his fright , I took the cage through a sort of fishing rod four feet long, after which Johny Kok stung a respectable piece of meat. The flattering voice I reached far the treat of a swipe launched into the air. In vain I tried ten times, twenty times , but in favor of a roar, I finally managed to plunge his cane in his mouth . He wanted to bite the stick, it was steak remained between his fangs. He seemed surprised , thought for a second or two, finally decided to swallow the mouthful for him insignificant. Thus , by dint of patience, he swallowed during this session a few pounds of meat he seemed to like .

Admittedly, we were not still good friends , but he tolerated , without anger, my presence and I sent him back in his car cage .

The next day, I began with Caesar the same year. It certainly remember our first interview and opportunities available to him : the stool at the head in case of attack , steak - reward if he was more docile .

His entrance was quieter and after ten minutes of testing , I was able to approach and even feed , either with long bamboo cane but with dressage, long only four feet .

Everything was going so well that I decided to send another tiger. Alone? or Caesar? But I hesitated, I decided to keep Caesar , thinking that the second tiger would be less frightened in the company of a fellow .

Upon entry , Bengali behaved exactly like Caesar yesterday , rushed back to his car, but the door closed behind him blocking his path. Caesar then seeing the other side of the central cage, he ran to him , as if to implore his protection and instantly seemed reassured.

 

Moments later , I could close the two tigers. Bengali did not appear aggressive. Amazed by as docility , after giving the two tigers few pieces of meat , I did introduce Cambodia , the third tiger. Just walked into the central cage , he saw his brothers, fled from them , and that day , I had no trouble with him . Later , it was quite otherwise : Caesar, who had attacked me repeatedly proved a docile tiger, while the other two Siberians , soft in appearance, became dangerous.

After a week of hard work , the trio stood quiet and in place. The four Bengal tigers, subjected to two daily rehearsals , made rapid progress. So I resolved to try to cluster seven animals in the same cage.

Last care for a few days yet , I had to keep only the Siberians , get them used to sit in their place, a solid lasso around the neck to keep them from the outside by my men if they tried to rush on " Bengali " Unable to defend themselves against such giants. Their pass every morning lassos was not a small matter , but after a week , Siberians seemed unaware they had the rope around his neck . The time had therefore come to develop the cocktail Siberian - Bengal.

In the empty cage in front of me , I did not get first one Siberian man named Caesar, hemp necklace around his neck. At the other end of the rope , beyond the gates , four guys were ready to intervene. Without hesitation now , I did send four Bengal tigers . Caesar looked at him curiously but did not move an inch. Immediately , I had to run their first four tigers pyramid, keeping them away from Caesar. Everything went without incident.

The next day I took the test in September Siberians were in their place , Bengal tigers entered . Caesar and Bengali not bronchèrent , but Cambodia, the largest of the three Siberians , jumped off his stool and lunged at Prince. Selected by the lasso , he could not reach it. He immediately received four or five lashes and I sent him back to his seat stool .

When Cambodia seemed calmed down , I wanted to run the first pyramid to Bengal tigers . The moment Prince passed Cambodia , it jumped again , deceiving my vigilance, and , despite the lasso , he managed to sink his claws on his young companion . Before he could sink his fangs into her flanks, he was on the skull a terrific blow from a club that made him let go.

The scuffle had caused widespread excitement and I myself need a break to catch my breath . Tamer animals and were treated to a quarter of an hour's rest . Then I began the "series" of the pyramid. At the first attempt , I gave a key stroke whip - preventive - in Cambodia , at the precise moment when Prince passed him . Siberian

drew back his head and closed his eyes , muttering remained on his stool . In the second test , a boost a few inches from his nose enough to keep in obedience. There was the " key " of dressage. I had to use it for several weeks , whenever Prince passed the Siberian . An instinctive hatred separated these two tigers , though cousins, so to speak , and their animosity died down very slowly.

Fifteen days later , the seven tigers were willing to work together. I do not utilisai lassos precautionary and Siberians attended the first pyramid as Bengal tigers executed to perfection. The development of the number fascinated me every day , but for something different , I had the idea to juggle a number of lions quite risky .


 
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United States Pckts Offline
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This is only a bit of the chapter, more is said. But this is the jist of it.
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GuateGojira Offline
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( This post was last modified: 05-14-2014, 10:28 AM by GuateGojira )

It is sad that no images can be seen. However, in the small picks that you post, it is possible to see the great difference between the Siberian tigers and the "Bengal" ones. However, I guess that those "Bengal" specimens are not entire "pure", probably a mix of Bengal with any other "subspecies" or just Indochinese tigers.
 
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Sri Lanka Apollo Offline
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*This image is copyright of its original author


I dont think the middle 3 tigers are male bengals, they look to be some smaller subspecies.
I also dont think they are fully grown males, because they look the same size as the female
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United States Pckts Offline
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The only female is the one on the far left next to Caesar and she is the same family as the other 3 males, they where his first tigers and bought at the same time. The bengals may or may not be full grown, but the siberians are younger than they are. I believe the siberians are age of 3 or so when first introduced to the bengals.
The 3rd tiger from the left is Prince and the 2nd tiger from the right is Cambodge (largest siberian) and also the tiger that attempted to attack prince for many days until finally taught not to.
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United States Pckts Offline
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Also one note, he says that the bengals where brought from "Bengal"
So he doesn't know what type of sub species they are, obviously. This could also be the reason that the popular beliefe that the Siberian is the largest cat, because most of these circus trainers probably never had a Pure wild bengal from somewhere like Assam or Panna etc.... As well as siberians being able to put fat on easier than bengals and their massive furry coats all lead to the old popular idea that siberians are larger than bengals, which after lots of research seems to be the opposite.
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Richardrli Offline
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( This post was last modified: 05-15-2014, 09:20 AM by Richardrli )

(05-14-2014, 10:12 PM)'Pckts' Wrote: Also one note, he says that the bengals where brought from "Bengal"
So he doesn't know what type of sub species they are, obviously. This could also be the reason that the popular beliefe that the Siberian is the largest cat, because most of these circus trainers probably never had a Pure wild bengal from somewhere like Assam or Panna etc.... As well as siberians being able to put fat on easier than bengals and their massive furry coats all lead to the old popular idea that siberians are larger than bengals, which after lots of research seems to be the opposite.

 
But on the flip side it's also true that Amurs are not smaller than Bengals, expecially in captive environments as we all know by now. So your last sentence isn't exactly accurate. A tiger from Tamil Nadu is just as "Bengal" as a tiger from Assam, so why the emphasis on the latter?
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GuateGojira Offline
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I think is fair to say that there is more intraespecific variation between the Bengal population than between the Amur population.

The smallest Amur specimens (Korea?) that I know are no smaller than the Indochinese tigers, while the smallest Bengal specimens (The Sundarbans) are of the same size than the small Balinese tigers.

In captivity, it seems that Amur tigers are in fact the largest cats overall in all the senses, but in the wild, Bengal reach the same sizes (length and height) and now even a much higher body mass.
 
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Sri Lanka Apollo Offline
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(05-14-2014, 10:08 PM)'Pckts' Wrote: The only female is the one on the far left next to Caesar and she is the same family as the other 3 males, they where his first tigers and bought at the same time. The bengals may or may not be full grown, but the siberians are younger than they are. I believe the siberians are age of 3 or so when first introduced to the bengals.
The 3rd tiger from the left is Prince and the 2nd tiger from the right is Cambodge (largest siberian) and also the tiger that attempted to attack prince for many days until finally taught not to.


 



If the amurs are 3 years old and the Bengals are older than that (so the 4 bengal tigers should be adults or closer to adulthood), then there should be a greater sexual dimorphism in size between the 3 male and 1 female bengal tigers. But it is not the case when you see the picture.
Since those 4 tigers are adults and the 3 males and 1 female are closer in size to each other. I think its highly possible that these tigers are either smaller subspecies or the unique sunderbans tigers (smaller tigers show lesser sexual dimorphism in size)


*This image is copyright of its original author



(05-14-2014, 10:12 PM)'Pckts' Wrote: Also one note, he says that the bengals where brought from "Bengal"
So he doesn't know what type of sub species they are, obviously. This could also be the reason that the popular beliefe that the Siberian is the largest cat, because most of these circus trainers probably never had a Pure wild bengal from somewhere like Assam or Panna etc.... As well as siberians being able to put fat on easier than bengals and their massive furry coats all lead to the old popular idea that siberians are larger than bengals, which after lots of research seems to be the opposite.


 



Since he says "BENGAL"

Bengal is a geographical and ethno-linguistic region in South Asia. It lies in the eastern region of the Indian subcontinent, at the apex of the Bay of Bengal, and is dominated by the fertile Bengal delta. The region was politically divided in 1947 and today comprises the nation of Bangladesh and the Indian state of West Bengal.

This is exactly the Bengal region

*This image is copyright of its original author


This is nothing but Sunderbans fertile plains and mangrove forests.
So these 4 Bengals could be sunderbans tigers (bengal tigers from sunderbans).
This could explain the size difference between those bengals and amurs.

 

 
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