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White, Black & Golden Tigers
White, Black & Golden Tigers
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White, Black & Golden Tigers
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 (07-15-2014, 11:23 PM)'Pckts' Wrote: Also Gaute, here is info on Ranthambhore baby boomThose were NOT my words, but if you like it, then YES, I still consider it. All these reports are just bubbles of soap. Don't you found "curious" that even when all the "official" reports of the parks shows that the tiger populations are growing, the true figures of tiger population never grow, and in the best case, they are only stable? How many of those cubs actually survive? How many of them actually reach adulthood? How many of them manage to reproduce? A baby boom is good, but is not the savior note at all. Taking in count the cases of Sariska and Panna, I still can't believe, at the first moment at least, in the reports of park rangers and park administrators. In the best case, most of the parks in India have only 30 to 40 specimens and from them, maybe half are breeding adults. We need more than just some "baby booms" here and there, we need a higher surviving rate of the tigers. Besides, inter-species conflict is not direct evidence of a higher population. Lack of prey and human population increase can cause this too. (07-15-2014, 11:12 PM)'Pckts' Wrote: Its the same pictures as Gaute posted, so i guess no clear image exists from that expedition. I am curious about the video if it exists, as well as if Sundquist saw any white tigers.You are assuming that the digital version is the same than the physical version and that is not the case. Check that all the pictures in the digital version of the book are black and blurry. However, when Peter posted his versions, scanned from the physical book, the images were very clear and clean. So, there is a better picture of the white tigress in the physical book. In that case, your assumption that there are no clear images of the white tigress is incorrect. If you don't believe in me, check the difference: 1. The picture in the digital version (online).  *This image is copyright of its original author 2. The picture scanned from the physical book (thanks to Peter).  *This image is copyright of its original author Did you see how different they are? [img]images/smilies/sleepy.gif[/img] Search the physical book and you will see the beautiful picture of the wild white tigress with her "new arrival" (her cubs). Again, Dr Sunquist never saw a white tiger in the wild, that was just an example, not an account or a report. About the video, I am downloading the documentary "Tiger of India in IMAX". This show was about Jim Corbett and his accounts. I hope that maybe this video have the white tigress on it.
Here are the four photographs taken by Jim Corbett, from the digital version of his book:
 *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author This last one is the white tigress. This is the best that I can do, with the digital version. If you want a better image, ask it to Peter or search it in a library. I can't do anything more. Finally, again, the page where Jim Corbett states that it was a full grow wild white tigress:  *This image is copyright of its original author  (07-16-2014, 11:09 AM)'GuateGojira' Wrote:"All these reports are just bubbles of soap. Don't you found "curious" that even when all the "official" reports of the parks shows that the tiger populations are growing, the true figures of tiger population never grow, and in the best case, they are only stable?"(07-15-2014, 11:23 PM)'Pckts' Wrote: Also Gaute, here is info on Ranthambhore baby boomThose were NOT my words, but if you like it, then YES, I still consider it. All these reports are just bubbles of soap. Don't you found "curious" that even when all the "official" reports of the parks shows that the tiger populations are growing, the true figures of tiger population never grow, and in the best case, they are only stable? Tiger numbers have grown, sightings have grown, new tigers are popping up everywhere. "Bubbles and soap"? I don't agree with you here gaute, Im curious to why you have such skepticism toward these confirmed sightings, images, and eye witness accounts, compared to my skepticism from a blurry image with no clear colors from a hunter who has claimed a couple of questionable accounts? Then you posted the image and said that this was deffinitive proof of the white tigress, but these actual accounts and images are not? (07-16-2014, 11:46 AM)'GuateGojira' Wrote:(07-15-2014, 11:12 PM)'Pckts' Wrote: Its the same pictures as Gaute posted, so i guess no clear image exists from that expedition. I am curious about the video if it exists, as well as if Sundquist saw any white tigers.You are assuming that the digital version is the same than the physical version and that is not the case. And yet either image is 100 times more clear than the image claimed by Corbett. Which looks like it was taken out of night vision googles in black and white. It's not comparable, the only image that is even viewable is the one of the tigers side profile. Once again, I already admitted that white tigers most likely can survive till adulthood in the wild, still skeptical until i see actual proof, but theres enough accounts for me to consider it. But this image is certainly not proof of anything, and I would hope you would admit it. I understand you think Corbett wouldn't deceive and I am not saying he would or wouldn't, but this image is definitely not conclusive in any sense of the word. (07-16-2014, 10:59 AM)'GuateGojira' Wrote:(07-15-2014, 09:27 PM)'Pckts' Wrote: Im not sure how you rebutted my position?Pckts, you are scaring me. You are acting like... Asad! I thought you quoted Sundquist as seeing white tigers, I guess not. Now, don't ever compare me to Asad! Because you are acting like Bold, by denying the idea of tiger populations growing in Ranthambhore, saying a blurry image is conclusive evidence, saying Corbett is the most reliable source, considering he is a hunter, that alone makes him slightly less reliable, you saying animals aren't making a comeback?If there's one thing above all to celebrate in the wild, it's nature's resilience. At times, the deck may seem stacked against the world's animals — according to the International Union for Conservation of Nature, the danger of disappearing species is worse than the ongoing financial meltdown — but even a stint on the doomed endangered species list may not be the sealed fate it used to be.Remarkably, several once-threatened species are actually making a comeback these days, resisting extinction and growing in numbers once again. Here are a few animals that, in spite of nearly being wiped out, are enjoying a revival in the wild. http://lifestyle.ca.msn.com/earth-month/...d=28092503 http://www.discovery.com/tv-shows/curios...s-quiz.htm http://teachingkidsnews.com/2014/01/06/4...ck-canada/ I can go on and on, you'll try and scew this and say this wouldn't happen with out humans, and I say, yet again.... the only help they need is protection from other humans. All human beings have to do protect them from us, that is it. So, that means, leave them alone and nature will take care of it self. Like the tons of species that are already coming back. Gaute, you and I have had civil debates, don't call me Asad again. That is BS and you know it
A little more proof on why these "conservation efforts" are bs, and why the only thing we should "conserve" is the earth and all its creatures. Every animal, plant and eco sytem needs to be maintained and kept healthy.
"Okay, so why don’t we all know that tigers are slipping towards the edge? Part of the reason might be because we see them all the time in zoos and at the circus. But captive tigers don’t count: they’re gone from the wild gene pool and even if they could be released, they wouldn’t know how to hunt or survive outside of an enclosure and their familiarity with people would make them dangerous. And it’s nearly impossible to move a new individual into a place where tigers live. These cats are incredibly territorial and will fight to the death over their carefully delineated home territory.Another big reason that many of us don’t realize there are so few tigers is that for the last 40 years or so, conservation organizations have loudly claimed that they’re saving them. It’s a way to keep donations rolling in. But the fact is, only a few of them are making headway in a few locations. Billions of dollars have been fundraised and spent, yet tiger numbers continue to plummet.To save the tiger, protecting those 42 precious source sites is critical. In 2010, fully protecting those sites was estimated at a cost of $82 million a year.Though tigers are in the emergency room, they’re a resilient species. They were nearly annihilated 73,000 years ago when a massive volcanic eruption at Sumatra’s Lake Toba plunged the planet into volcanic winter, wiping out scores of Asian mammals. The species rebounded from just a few individuals to repopulate Asia.The good news: A female can birth 15 cubs in her lifetime, and there’s still enough habitat to support healthy populations. If both the cats and their prey are given boots-on-the-ground protection, there’s hope, they’ll bounce back. But it will take committed, targeted action and creative strategies." http://newswatch.nationalgeographic.com/...ld-tigers/ Tigers and every other animal will come back the minute people protect them from people. Imagine every freeway has massive land bridges for animals to cross safely, every sky scrapper has huge trees surrounding it, every car admitted no C02, all energy was derived from solar or reusable, gas was done away with, no more draining and mining of natural resources. Humans don't need diamonds or fossil fuel, they haven't for over 100s of years. There where guys in the 1800 and before who already successfully developed solar power but where shunned because fossil fuel was so much easier to use and cheaper. So while you say they need "conservation" I say they need "protection" and the world needs "conservation. " I hope that is clear when I say that humans need to stay out of the way and a white tiger will occur naturally in the wild, if it did once, it will again.
Hello Pckts, I have not leave the debate yet, just that I have little time right now.
Of course, I disagree with you in many points, but I will like to apologize to call you "Asad", that was too extreme, I think that the worst garbage in the world is 100% better than that poster. Sorry for the comparison, ok? [img]images/smilies/wink.gif[/img] Now, about the baby boom, I sustain my point, those are just soap bubbles. They say that all the time, but I don't see the number of tigers increasing dramatically, only in the government papers, at least. Tiger conservation is making great efforts, of course, but with the high levels of poaching and human conflict, all those "baby booms" have only a medium effect in the population. Many of them (over 50%) actually don't even reach the adulthood and those that do it, most face a hard time finding a territory, remember that a tiger can't breed without a territory for its own, and this is exactly what tigers don't have in India. Remember "Broken tail", that young male managed to survive up to its independence and traveled a huge distance just to be killed by a train! Baby booms are good (check that I have NOT denied its existence), but they are irrelevant until the Indian government provide good protection for them. This is another example of direct human intervention, tigers need it desperately! The figure of about 3,200 tigers in the wild is the high side, only half of it is breeding adults, which at the end, are the important ones.
By the way, did you remember when you tell me that I can’t prove that all American white tigers are hybrids between Amur and Bengal tiger and that there are no accounts of wild white tigers in India?
Well, check this out:  *This image is copyright of its original author Check that the message of “zero value” applies to American White tigers, and although Indian white ones are also inbreed, they can be "saved" through genetic management. In a next post, evidence that Indian white tigers are still 100% Panthera tigris tigris and that there are not a single pure Bengal tiger in any part of the world, captive or wild, except in India.
Ohhh, what the hell, here is the table of Pure captive tigers in the world, in the managed zoos:
 *This image is copyright of its original author This is also evidence that all the tigers in America AND Australia that claim to have Bengal tigers are wrong. It is also interesting to know that all the "Indochinese" tigers in zoos are in fact Malayan ones, this explain the very low weight figures for this tiger group in Slaght et al. (2005). This other table show that only 8 specimens, apart from the 195 animals in managed zoos, are in other facilities, talking of the Bengal tigers of course:  *This image is copyright of its original author All these tables came from the great book "Tigers of the World", version of 2010. It is available in Google Books, although only in a preview. (07-20-2014, 09:24 AM)'GuateGojira' Wrote: Hello Pckts, I have not leave the debate yet, just that I have little time right now. A baby boom is good. Humans over stepping their boundries and killing animals is not. But these are two different things, regardless if they make it to adulthood, it's good to see a increase in cubs, it means the eco system is in good condition. I agree, whether these cubs make it till adulthood is a completely different story.
Disgusting how many privately owned tigers there are. Even more disgusting that there is not a single pure bred bengal left in north america. All those wild cats brought here from the circus era and not a single one kept pure. Nice job on "conservation" N. America. lol
Sometimes I don't understand how people can be so naive. They go to these zoos and learn about tigers yet don't understand how absurd the idea is, the only place tigers belong is in the wild. Tfs Gaute
Tigerwalah shared Sariska Tiger Reserve's status.12 hours agoexcellent news......Some good news to share, Sariska blessed with more cubs.....ST2 sighted with 2 cubs....total count increases to 11. #tigercubs #sariska #tiger#tigerpopulation.
Great News from Similipal, the forest officials claiming to have spotted 25 tigers including 3 "black tigers".
This is indeed a great news as Similipal is the only place in the world where "black tigers" (actually tigers with very intensive, thick stripes) are known to have occured. Similipal Counts 25 Royal Bengal Tigers  *This image is copyright of its original author BALASORE : Speculations regarding the number of Royal Bengal Tiger (RBT) in Similipal Tiger Reserve (STR), the second largest in the country, have been put to rest with forest officials claiming to have spotted at least 25 tigers, including three melanistic (black) tigers, in the recently concluded survey. The forest officials indicated that the population may be more as the census was conducted only in 400 sq km of 1,200-sq km core area. Earlier, the STR authorities had drawn flak from various quarters for declining number of RBTs. Using pug-mark method, the STR had counted 101 tigers in 2004 and 61 in 2009. The number was challenged by National Tiger Conservation Authority (NTCA) and Wildlife Institution of India (WII). The two organisations had estimated 23 (12-34) tigers by camera trapping method in 2010 which the forest officials had refused to buy. Regional Chief Conservator of Forest (RCCF) Anup Nayak admitted that there was a dispute over the figure which was calculated in pug mark method that was objected by NTCA. “There is no dispute now as the census has been carried out through camera taping procedure as recommended. Altogether 126 cameras were fixed at 63 points and the population was counted as per the core within the core principle,” he said. Sources said most of the big cats were spotted in Na’ana South and North, Meghasan, Manchabank, STR 60, STR 9, Chahala and Upper Barhakamuda ranges, which are completely restricted for the people. What has brought cheers for the forest officials is that the big cats were only counted in one third area of the tiger reserve. Efforts were on to count the tigers in other areas too where their scats were found. The RCCF said signs and scats of the RBTs were also spotted in Kendumundi, Satkosia, Joranda, Mukabadi, Jodapal and Khadkei areas. The census was started in January 2012 and so far five sign surveys have been completed, while the last one will be held in December after which the final report would be published. “The prey base has also increased over the years in the tiger reserve which is altogether a different terrain. The prey population has increased to 28 per sq km from 7 per sq km. There are 500 water bodies and seven rivers passing through the forest. There is no shortage of food or water in the forest, which has become a good habitation for the big cats,” he said. In 2009, the Comptroller and Auditor General of India (CAG), after reviewing the functioning of the STR, had cast doubt over the tiger census figures presented by the then State forest authorities alleging that the pug mark method was not considered a fool proof methodology by experts. http://www.newindianexpress.com/states/o...423728.ece http://odishasuntimes.com/85319/tiger-po...r-reserve/ Some 'black tigers' photos :  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author look at him, he is a really cool guy isn't he? Similipal tiger sighting, but no black tiger in this vid 
WOW........ Can't belive.. Black tiger, Never heard and never seen. Big Thanks Phatio
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