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Which one is the top prey hunted by the Apex Predator's?
Which one is the top prey hunted by the Apex Predator's?
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Which one is the top prey hunted by the Apex Predator's?
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So, we have a thread about the top predator's behind big cat's and bear's, i think we could also add a thread about the toughest and most dangerous prey hunted by the world's most domiant predator's - also by those from the second row.
2 rules: - please add only terrestrian or half terrestrian mammals - only use prey, which is hunted at least by a significant amount of frequency (means, no elephants or rhino's), otherwise the dicussion would be over too fast I start with the obvious candidate's:  *This image is copyright of its original author Gaur (Bos Gaurus) The world's largest and most powerfull bovines. Despite their huge size, they are surprisingly fast and agile. Adult animals are hunted by Tiger's only, calves are occasionally also taken by leopard's or dhole's.  *This image is copyright of its original author Wild Water Buffalo (Bubalus Arnee) Slightly smaller than Gaur's, but equipped with more devastating horn's with a wide range. One of the rare'st wild bovine's in present days. Adult specimen also hunted by tiger's only througout their distribution range.  *This image is copyright of its original author The cape buffalo (Syncerus Caffer) Africa's so called "black death", responsible for (rumored) hundred's of human death's yearly and feared for its aggresiveness. Is hunted mostly by lion's, but also spotted hyena's do hunt them occasionally.  *This image is copyright of its original author American Bison (Bison Bison) America's biggest mammal, has no reason to hide behind his tropical counterparts. Subadult's and calves are hunted by wolves and sometimes also by brown bear's, while adult bull's rarely fell victim to predator's.  *This image is copyright of its original author Walrus (Odobenus Rosmarus) Living in the northern polar and pacific region's. Protected by a huge amount of fat and blubber + impressive tusks. Preyed by Polar Bear's.  *This image is copyright of its original author Wild boar (sus scrofa) Almost present in every continent. Huge male boar's can reach size's of respective dimensions. Even if hunted frequently by tiger's and wolve's (and some other's from time to time), there are documented case's, where wild boar's killed their attacker's - even tiger's. Feel free to add some more if you want and tell your choice and reason about it - a top 3 would be also nice. 
This topic seems interesting. My proposal is to present information about these large mammals, use this topic to know the prey instead of ony the predator. Avoid comparison between predators (which is useless) and let's focus in the anti-predator behavior of the prey.
I am going to put comparative images of some of those animals, like the Asian and African buffalo, the sambar deer and the wild boar, among others. Let's share our data, remember to put the source of each information. Cheers. [img]images/smilies/smile.gif[/img] 
@"Brehmji" Great thread Idea.
Well, You have said not to include Animal like elephant, Rhino. But i think Hippo and Giraffe can be added among big prey list which is hunted by Lions. Let me know if you want them to be removed. 1. Hippos can not be hunted by any single predator on earth under ordinary condition. Though now a days photographer and ranger are seeing lot of hippos are hunted by large lion coalition, for example the famous notch boys are killing hippo regularly.  *This image is copyright of its original author 2. Giraffe is also considered as one of the largest prey. Adults often neglected by predators most of time but when there is no other prey option or place like desert they fall as main prey source for big lion prides. they are very dangerous animal for any prey including Male Lion. They hit with their legs, If executed properly it can be fatal for predators. Infact many lions have died due to this.  *This image is copyright of its original author 3. I think Adult Moose (Elk) is formidable prey even for big adult grizzly bear. Males weighs about 320 to 475 kg  *This image is copyright of its original author One thing very interesting about these large prey is that predators use clever tactics to hunt these animals. Generally lions hunt these large animal in group but some time some single Lion or Lioness kills cape buffalo using suffocating technique While Tiger still use their strength and bite force to bring them down. I am very impressed by the Lion different hunting techniques. 
I would suggest also, those huge herbivores of which no verifiable recorded killing are on record; or at least so few as to seperate these animals from the 'prey list'. I have in mind the bull African elephant, ( perhaps ) the bull Indian elephant, the bull hippopotamus, and the various species of bull rhinoceros.
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Though I have added Hippo because I think from recent study Hippo are part of regular diet for Large Lion Coalition . But It is bhremji thread and he has rights to decide the things in this thread. If he want I will remove Hippo from my post. 
Moose... Although very rare adultsof even these animals are taken by Cougars.
 *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author Reindeer..... Apart from Moose.. these are the largewr animals the Cougar preys on  *This image is copyright of its original author White tailed Buck.... These are pretty decent in the size department ( i saw a video of a Buck man-handlng a hunter )  *This image is copyright of its original author 
I almost have the tendency to lean towards the Walrus.
Being so massive, no real weakness (aka limbs to break or give way) Huge amount of blubber to protect its organs and massive tusks that if they penetrate you, its over. Also the fact that they are never far away from water and usually can retreat there fairly easily, it all leads towards an extremely hard animal to kill.
@sanjay: Hmmm, well, i think we can keep Hippo's and Giraffe's, but just barely
 About hippo's, i have a slightly different opinion. I agree that hippo's are close to unvulnerability in water or very close to water, but once their place in their water hole become's sparse in hot days and they are forced to walk a bit further due to those circumstances, it look's like they fell prey to lion's rather easily. Throughout the whole year, i find the "black death" more difficult to take on, while it depend's more on the season for hippo's. At the moment, i also slightly tend to walrus like Pckts. Till we analyze other's a bit more  Some information about Walrus - polar bear relationship: From "Interactions between Polar Bears and Overwintering Walruses in the Central Canadian High Arctic" by Wendy Calvert and Ian Stirling. I found this while looking for information about walrus - ice bar interaction, the first site where i found this article was the "shaggygod" board. Some interesting quotes from the article: "Abstract:There are few records of predation by polar bears( Ursusm aritimus) on walruses( Odobenusr osmarus), a though their distributions overlap extensively. During the late winter and early spring from 1981 through 1989, we recorded interactions between polar bears and walruses in the central Canadian High Arctic, where walrus movements are severely restricted in the winter by limited areas of open water for breathing and haulout holes. Predatory behaviour of bears and anti-predator behaviour of walruses were observed. We found evidence that polar bears made wounding but non-fatal attacks on 3 walruses, killed 3 walruses, and probably killed 4 others. One walrus was frozen out of its breathing hole and vulnerable to predation. Although the vulnerability of walruses to polar bear predation would vary with habitats and seasons, it is clear that polar bears are important predators of walruses in the central Canadian High Arctic in late winter-early spring" The time of observation is already 2 decade's in the past, but still representative. Today there are luckily some short clip's showing ice bear's predating and killing adult walruses, even though this is of course not an indicator for higher frequency. "Polar bears are powerful predators, capable of taking large prey such as bearded seals (Erignathus barbatus) (Stirlinga ndA rchibald1 977) and belugas( Delphinapterus leucas) (Lowry et al. 1987), but walruses are the largest of the polar bear's possible prey, and they are able to use their tusks for defence. Loughrey (1959) felt there was little doubt polar bears prey on calves and subadults, but found factual accounts scarce. Fay (1982) stated that he knew of no confirmed records of predation by bears on walruses. He concluded that contact between polar bears and walruses occurred mainly in summer and that only younger walruses are really vulnerable to predation. Although Fay (1985) listed predation by polar bears as 1 of 3 primary causes of mortality among walrus calves (along with predation by killer whales [Orcinus orca] and crushing), he noted that Mansfield (1958) has calculated that total mortality of walrus calves is low compared to otherpinnipeds. It is hard to assess if this predation would be significant to the population." "Females and calves usually hauled out in groups of 4 or more, were more vigilant than all-male groups, and were easily disturbed. We sometimes saw them rush into the water even when we could see no cause for the disturbance. In groups of females and young, the calves were as near, or nearer, the water than the adults. Although calves often slept, the females remained alert. In contrast, adult male walruses were much less easily disturbed when hauled out and more reluctant to enter the water. People or bears could often approach to within a few metres. When approached closely, large male walruses often backed into the water slowly, ready to fight with their tusks if necessary. Bears are able to use rough ice for cover to get close to a walrus before charging, which could be particularly dangerous to subadult animals that are less capable of fending off a bear. Smaller walruses hauled up alone often entered the water head-first shortly after a human, or in some observed instances, a bear, was detected. If several male walruses were hauled out together, the largest males tended to lie furthest from the hole, with the subadults nearest. The subadults were more restless and possibly more observant of predators. The combination of being watchful and nearest the water probably increased their chances of escaping safely from a charging bear that must first face the tusks of the larger male walruses." "Between 1981 and 1989, we found evidence of 10 walruses that we believe were wounded or killed by polar bears (Fig. 1). The date of death is known only for the kill at site 2 where the bear was observed killing a large adult male walrus and pulling it from its haulout hole (D. Grant, pers. commun.). All the other carcasses were frozen and partially eaten when found. Wind-blown snow often obscured the bear tracks in the area, making it difficult to reconstruct the attack, but the presence of bear claw marks, blood smears, and scratching marks made by walrusf lippersi ndicateda n interactionh ad occurred. In 2 cases, the haulout hole near the carcass was still unfrozen, suggesting the walruses were killed on the ice before they could escape, and that freezing-out was not a factor. There was blood soaked into the snow beneath the head of the adult male found dead in February 1987 at the shoreline tidal cracks below our camp (site 11), suggesting that a bear killed him, though possibly only after the ice shifted and he was frozen out. At 6 of 7 sites of kills or probable kills, polar bears were feeding on the carcass when it was sighted, but we did not know if they were predators or scavengers." "Although walruses hit each other on the neck and shoulder with their tusks when fighting, they are protected by a thick skin. Most wounds are superficial and bleeding is limited".[/i] "Although encounter and predation rates likely vary among different habitats, we suggest that polar bears are important predators of walruses in our study area. The data also suggest that subadult walruses are most vulnerable, but that large male bears are capable of also killing adult male walruses. Polar bears may also kill more walruses in pack ice situations than has been reported previously." According to this, it can be concluded that bulls become extremely rarely victims to ice bear's, for good reason. Full article: http://www.bearbiology.com/fileadmin/tpl...ling_8.pdf Some clips about polar bear - walrus interaction: Walruses are not only prey, but also competitor's over food to polar bear's. Enemies: Most bears have few natural enemies except for humans and the human impact on bear habitat. An exception to this is threat walruses pose to polar bears. Polar bears and adult walruses are rivals, occasionally coming into contact while feeding on whale carcasses or in the process of killing seals. On land, a polar bear has the edge over a walrus, but once in the water, the walrus has the edge. It can grab the polar bear from below, stab the bear with its tusks, and repeat this resulting in serious if not fatal injury to the bear (Brown 1993, p 108-109). From: http://www.bear.org/website/bear-pages/p...facts.html That surprised me, till i saw one encounter over food in a highly recommended documentary yesterday: "Heavyweights with unexpected skills" - a walrus documentary with deep insights about this strange looking creatures.
Walrus are very nasty animals, they are extremely equipped to do immense damage and as durable as they come.
They are like the Rhino of the ocean IMO.
A few weeks ago i found an interesting article which compare's the hunting of cape and water buffalo's. It's from a hunter's magazine called sportsafield. Even though it is from the perspective of human hunter's, i think the experiences described in the article are usefull for clearing up with some cliche's.
Some quotes from the article: "The Cape buffalo of Africa is genus and species Syncerus caffer; and the water buffalo, native to Asia, is Bos bubalus. We call them both “buffalo” (as we do the American bison, which is yet another genus and species), which is confusing. The Cape buffalo is a signature African animal, but for some reason, many people refer to Cape buffalo as “water buffalo.” While this mistake is common and adds to the confusion, for totally unknown reasons I have never heard anyone refer to a water buffalo as a “Cape buffalo.” As hunters, I think it’s important to understand that water buffalo and Cape buffalo are significantly different animals. In biological terms, they are not as close as white-tailed deer and mule deer (which do share the same genus), and thus might be considered as disparate as sheep and goats or even elk and mule deer. They do have similarities. Both are cloven-hoofed ungulates; both are primarily grazers. There are also significant differences. In appearance they are both big, black bovines—but even this is an oversimplification. There are numerous races of African buffalo, and the western varieties are usually shades of red and brown rather than black. Water buffalo, though predominantly black, often have pale foreleg markings and a white throat patch—which you will never see in African buffalo—and I have seen mature individuals that are brown and even tan. The most numerous and widespread African buffalo, the southern or Cape buffalo, has horns that almost grow together in the center to form the distinctive “boss.” Water buffalo grow horns that are separated on the forehead…but the westernmost races of African buffalo also have separated horns, and rarely grow the distinctive boss. The horns of water buffalo may grow out into an incredibly wide spread, may grow upward in a gentle curve, or may curl around radically. Unlike the Cape buffalo, the water buffalo was domesticated many centuries ago, and have been moved around so much that it’s pretty hard to sort them out. There are obviously different gene pools; Australian water buffalo have horns that are almost triangular in cross-section, curving out and up. The water buffalo so widespread in Argentina and the few herds I’ve seen in the United States have horns that are more oval in cross section, and tend to curl around close to the skull. The wide-horned Australian stock was almost certainly brought in from Indonesia, which lies just north of Australia, while I’m told the curl-horned stock came from India. In any case, at some point in the distant past there was probably more than one race of water buffalo, but they have been moved around for so long to plow fields and provide alternative meat and milk sources that nobody really tries to keep them separate. They are all “water buffalo”—but some look quite different from others. True wild populations still exist here and there, from India southeast to Vietnam and Indonesia, with the only current hunting opportunity I’m aware of in the Philippines. Australia has arguably the best water buffalo hunting today, a vast free-range population introduced in the 1830s and long since established across a huge expanse of the Northern Territories. In Argentina, water buffalo are hunted in both free-range and feral populations, and in the USA there are huntable herds in Texas and Florida, and perhaps elsewhere. As mentioned, African buffalo also vary regionally in horn configuration, but African buffalo are hunted in Africa, period. I am not implying that they couldn’t be, but they were never domesticated, and with the exception of a few captive disease-free breeding programs, they are pretty much found and hunted on native range. Despite the fact that both are animals we call “buffalo” with many shared characteristics, there are strong differences. African buffalo are extremely gregarious herd animals, with herds often running into the hundreds and I suppose, in bygone days, sometimes into the thousands. Water buffalo tend to roam in small family groups. In good country in Australia I’ve counted hundreds of buffalo on a single plain—but they were spread out over a vast area, in smaller groups here and there. Even where the population is extremely dense, I’ve never seen a herd larger than possibly twenty; family groups of less than ten seem much more common." Till here common things are described, in a detailed way. "Although my Australian friends don’t like to hear this, I’ve messed with water buffalo on three continents and I find them considerably less wary than African buffalo. I’m not sure if this is natural (like American bison), or if it has something to do with eons of domestication. Both are possible, but I personally believe it’s because the majority of African buffalo still coexist with lions, and spend much of their lives on the run from the great cats. I have no experience with wild water buffalo that still coexist with tigers. Australian buffalo, for instance, have lived absent predators for a dozen bovine generations. They are more approachable than any African buffalo I’ve ever seen. Note that the words I’ve used are “wary” and “approachable.” “Aggressive” is an altogether different matter. In general it doesn’t apply to either buffalo unless you hurt one of them. African buffalo are legendary for their ferocity—but a serious charge from an unwounded buffalo is a very rare event. In this year 2012 alone, three hunters that I know of have been killed by African buffalo…but all three buffalo were wounded. With modern communications and air evacuation, human death from buffalo is also rare, so this is a bad year. However, a wounded buffalo is unquestionably dangerous, and if you wound one I think instincts take over and the situation is much the same between the two varieties. Some years back, American Jay Carlson, outfitting in the Philippines, was badly gored by a wounded water buffalo. He hunts in heavy jungle, which is somewhat unusual with water buffalo hunting today. Australian outfitter Greg Pennicott, hunting primarily floodplains and semi-open eucalyptus forest, has seen hundreds of water buffalo taken. Although he has seen dangerous situations, he maintains he has never seen a full-out charge. On the other hand, I’ve shot dozens of African buffalo, and I’ve never seen a full-out charge, either. It can happen with any large bovine, but I believe the type of cover may be a major influence on the danger level. Water buffalo are considerably bigger; the largest African buffalo bulls rarely weigh more than 1,500 pounds, while a big water buffalo bull will weigh a ton. Both are incredibly strong. I’ve seen water buffalo taken easily with fairly light rifles but, once adrenaline is up, I’ve also seen them take multiple good hits from heavy calibers. Cape buffalo, of course, are notorious for being tough—but I don’t think there’s much difference there, except that the water buffalo, whether he’s as tough or not, is a whole lot bigger—and that does make a difference." Full article: http://www.sportsafield.com/content/cape...er-buffalo The interesting parts have been described here. The almost legendary aggressiveness of the cape buffalo, which brought him the reputation as "black death", is according to the mentioned experiences from the article and from my point of view perhaps more likely a result of unawarness/provocation of hunters, farmers etc. It is doubtfull, that there is really a significant difference of aggresiveness in the cape buffalo compared to other bovines, as often believed. The fact, that cape's haven't been effectively domesticated yet, could be also just a result of the history of local civilization and/or the missing experiences with domestication in some areas. The now extinct wild Auerochs (Bos primigenius) for example was known for its aggresiveness (described by Gaius Julius Caeser), but still it has been domesticated throughout its distribution range. However, the first reaction of all bovine's is mostly the same, if a predator appears: Flee due to herd instinct. Sometimes they turn around and decide to fight back, this has been observed even in enwildered domestic water buffalo's. In summary, i believe it can be concluded, that both species -also Gaur's and Bison's- present a unique and dangerous challenge for the apex predator's in their environment. With their own difficulties (the smaller size of the cape buffalo's is "compensated" by larger herd's). Even though the largest individum's of Gaur's and Water Buffalo's, in my opinion, are somehow in their own league for solitary hunter's because of their size.  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author
I remember this account, I wish that he had expierenced water buffalo in india that coexist with tigers though.
Australian water buffalo have no natural predators or competitors when adults so they really have nothing to fear.  (06-15-2015, 07:08 AM)Brehmji Wrote: So, we have a thread about the top predator's behind big cat's and bear's, i think we could also add a thread about the toughest and most dangerous prey hunted by the world's most domiant predator's - also by those from the second row. Wow what a lineup of terror!! First it was wise to exclude all mega fauna since their size protects against most predation except the most specialized lion prides in rare cases. If we measure the danger of the prey by its ability to repel attack and hurt the predator I will bet my bottom dollar on the Cape buffalo, in many parts of Africa buffalo is the chief contributor to the biomass eaten by lions and buffalo are the third reason of violent deaths of lions ( after humans and other lions)...none of the other prey counter attacks the predator with a herd of 1500 animals , other bovines live in smaller herds less than twenty ( yet I have seen gaur chase tigers away, and read that water buffalo can do that as well but not hundreds of counter attackers ) and there is no recorded systemic communal defence with walruses nor wild boar . Cape buffalo also systematically attempt to kill lion cubs eliminating future danger a behaviour unique to them and elephants. Bison will follow, they too live in large herds and may have limited communal defence, they shelter the calves but rarely return to help a fallen adult or subadult to a wolf pack. Gaur will be my third choice. If we choose an individual animal I will pick the walrus, big, strong, well armed, intelligent, and an amazing swimmer.
Agree with everything stated.
I have said it for ever, the walrus is a such a monster, its massive, armored with huge amounts of blubber and weaponized perfectly to inflict death if they strike correctly. |
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