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Where is the biggest bengal tigers?

Norway Pantherinae Offline
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( This post was last modified: 03-24-2017, 08:28 PM by Pantherinae )

for long I have wondered where do you the biggest bengal tigers? Assam, terrai, Central India, Ranthambore etc? 
I'm not going to hide that I love South India's Tigers! And that they can reach massive sizes, but I would still say that they can't reach the absolute monstrous sizes of the others mentioned above. 

I know the popular belief that the North Indian and Nepalese tigers are the biggest, but I'm not sure I agree.. they for sure look to have a larger skulls (at least longer) and a more impressive upper-body with arms that are just mind blowing, but I'm I crazy if I say that the Central Indian looks just as big, If not bigger? They to me looks just as impressive in their upper body and their hind quarters looks even more robust. Especially Kanha and Pench seem to have males that match up well to the Terrai and Assam males.

My opinion: I think the biggest Nepalese, Central and Northern Indian males would max out very evenly.. and can all have super specimen that can reach weights over 300 kg.

but I really want a discussion about this to learn and listen to people's view and opinion's about who they think possesses the biggest cat in the world.
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Norway Pantherinae Offline
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Huge Central Indian males 

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Norway Pantherinae Offline
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Kaziranga tigers 

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United States Roflcopters Offline
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( This post was last modified: 03-25-2017, 02:20 AM by Roflcopters )

Quote:I'm not going to hide that I love South India's Tigers! And that they can reach massive sizes, but I would still say that they can't reach the absolute monstrous sizes of the others mentioned above. 

why can't they reach the absolute "monstrous" sizes of the others mentioned above?
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Norway Pantherinae Offline
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(03-25-2017, 02:16 AM)Roflcopters Wrote:
Quote:I'm not going to hide that I love South India's Tigers! And that they can reach massive sizes, but I would still say that they can't reach the absolute monstrous sizes of the others mentioned above. 

why can't they reach the absolute "monstrous" sizes of the others mentioned above?

I don't know exactly why, but IMO they do seem a little smaller, usually with a more narrow head. 
I have no doubt that they to can have individuals that are gigantic, take Raja for example who might be the biggest South Indian tiger I've seen. Still I don't find him as big as some Central Indian males. 

But this is just me sating my opinion. That's why it's here hopefully debated, and I wan't to hear you're opinion too.
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India sanjay Offline
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I agree, Bengal Tigers, to my surprise seems to be getting bigger. First I thought Tigers from Kaziranaga and Nepal are bigger But now I think Central India are getting bigger.

To be honest, I think Wagdoh at his prime is biggest tiger and most dominating. His success of raising cub is exceptional
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United States Polar Offline
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(03-25-2017, 10:19 AM)sanjay Wrote: I agree, Bengal Tigers, to my surprise seems to be getting bigger. First I thought Tigers from Kaziranaga and Nepal are bigger But now I think Central India are getting bigger.

To be honest, I think Wagdoh at his prime is biggest tiger and most dominating. His success of raising cub is exceptional

I agree, and Waghdoh is my favorite Bengal Tiger!

Lol
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Norway Pantherinae Offline
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( This post was last modified: 03-25-2017, 12:06 PM by Pantherinae )

(03-25-2017, 10:41 AM)Polar Wrote:
(03-25-2017, 10:19 AM)sanjay Wrote: I agree, Bengal Tigers, to my surprise seems to be getting bigger. First I thought Tigers from Kaziranaga and Nepal are bigger But now I think Central India are getting bigger.

To be honest, I think Wagdoh at his prime is biggest tiger and most dominating. His success of raising cub is exceptional

I agree, and Waghdoh is my favorite Bengal Tiger!

Lol
He's probably my favorite tiger too, but IMO he's not even close to be the biggest tiger in Central India over the last years, the biggest Kanha and Pench males are a level above him in terms of length and weight for me, he maybe gives a bigger presence, but I can't see him being bigger than the likes BMW for instance, but he's huge for sure and the most iconic tiger I've ever seen.
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Canada Wolverine Offline
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If the Bengal tigers are really getting bigger there should be a reason for this. What could be the possible explanation?
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India sanjay Offline
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@Wolverine If we discuss according to science, I think good conservation effort by India has made it possible to have bigger prey base and this may be the one of small reason. I think there are many experts here who can give you more detailed reply
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India Rishi Offline
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(03-25-2017, 01:49 PM)sanjay Wrote: @Wolverine If we discuss according to science, I think good conservation effort by India has made it possible to have bigger prey base and this may be the one of small reason. I think there are many experts here who can give you more detailed reply

Maybe that...Or maybe now-a-days due to ecotourism we actually get to see the biggest ones regularly, who reside in the prime habitats that were otherwise rendered inaccessible!!!

Earlier (before '72) maximum contact of humanity were with the rogues ones, weaklings who got pushed outwards to the fringes & turned man-eater, getting itself killed in the process (note that even today, the village stranded tigers/maneaters/cattle-lifters are all mostly below par)...
"Everything not saved will be lost."

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United States Roflcopters Offline
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( This post was last modified: 03-25-2017, 07:10 PM by Roflcopters )

(03-25-2017, 02:31 AM)Pantherinae Wrote:
(03-25-2017, 02:16 AM)Roflcopters Wrote:
Quote:I'm not going to hide that I love South India's Tigers! And that they can reach massive sizes, but I would still say that they can't reach the absolute monstrous sizes of the others mentioned above. 

why can't they reach the absolute "monstrous" sizes of the others mentioned above?

I don't know exactly why, but IMO they do seem a little smaller, usually with a more narrow head. 
I have no doubt that they to can have individuals that are gigantic, take Raja for example who might be the biggest South Indian tiger I've seen. Still I don't find him as big as some Central Indian males. 

But this is just me sating my opinion. That's why it's here hopefully debated, and I wan't to hear you're opinion too.

fair enough, I don't think that's the case though. I feel like tourism is a big thing in Central India and we see a lot more tigers from Central India as compared to the South and North. there's plenty of huge males in the South as well. Torn Ears of Nagarhole was probably one of the biggest tiger i have ever seen in photographs. possibly bigger than majority of Central Indian males and when you look at average weights, they are very close. 


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big robust male with a very long body and muscular to the core, a fine specimen.


Quote:He's probably my favorite tiger too, but IMO he's not even close to be the biggest tiger in Central India over the last years, the biggest Kanha and Pench males are a level above him in terms of length and weight for me, he maybe gives a bigger presence, but I can't see him being bigger than the likes BMW for instance, but he's huge for sure and the most iconic tiger I've ever seen.

what makes you think that only Pench and Kanha have the biggest males, there's Bandhavgarh, Satpura, Melghat, Umred, Melghat, Nagzira, Tadoba etc etc and Wagdoh was indeed one of the heaviest male of his time. in the era of BMW, Bamera, Munna, Wagdoh and Shivaji. Wagdoh was considered the biggest of them all. if you ask the majority even now, they will tell you the same. prime Wagdoh was quite a force. personally here's my top 10 biggest in no order.

- Ravan (Satpura, MP)
- Wagdoh (Tadoba, MH)
- Jai (Umred/Nagzira, MH)
- BMW (Pench, MP)
- Kingfisher (Kanha, MP)
- Umarpani (Kanha, MP)
- Mukhtar (Pench, MH)
- Bamera (Bandhavgarh, MP)
- Khursapar male (Pench, MH)
- Samrat (Pench, MH)
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Norway Pantherinae Offline
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( This post was last modified: 03-25-2017, 08:15 PM by Pantherinae )

(03-25-2017, 06:41 PM)Roflcopters Wrote:
(03-25-2017, 02:31 AM)Pantherinae Wrote:
(03-25-2017, 02:16 AM)Roflcopters Wrote:
Quote:I'm not going to hide that I love South India's Tigers! And that they can reach massive sizes, but I would still say that they can't reach the absolute monstrous sizes of the others mentioned above. 

why can't they reach the absolute "monstrous" sizes of the others mentioned above?

I don't know exactly why, but IMO they do seem a little smaller, usually with a more narrow head. 
I have no doubt that they to can have individuals that are gigantic, take Raja for example who might be the biggest South Indian tiger I've seen. Still I don't find him as big as some Central Indian males. 

But this is just me sating my opinion. That's why it's here hopefully debated, and I wan't to hear you're opinion too.

fair enough, I don't think that's the case though. I feel like tourism is a big thing in Central India and we see a lot more tigers from Central India as compared to the South and North. there's plenty of huge males in the South as well. Torn Ears of Nagarhole was probably one of the biggest tiger i have ever seen in photographs. possibly bigger than majority of Central Indian males and when you look at average weights, they are very close. 


*This image is copyright of its original author


big robust male with a very long body and muscular to the core, a fine specimen.


Quote:He's probably my favorite tiger too, but IMO he's not even close to be the biggest tiger in Central India over the last years, the biggest Kanha and Pench males are a level above him in terms of length and weight for me, he maybe gives a bigger presence, but I can't see him being bigger than the likes BMW for instance, but he's huge for sure and the most iconic tiger I've ever seen.

what makes you think that only Pench and Kanha have the biggest males, there's Bandhavgarh, Satpura, Melghat, Umred, Melghat, Nagzira, Tadoba etc etc and Wagdoh was indeed one of the heaviest male of his time. in the era of BMW, Bamera, Munna, Wagdoh and Shivaji. Wagdoh was considered the biggest of them all. if you ask the majority even now, they will tell you the same. prime Wagdoh was quite a force. personally here's my top 10 biggest in no order.

- Ravan (Satpura, MP)
- Wagdoh (Tadoba, MH)
- Jai (Umred/Nagzira, MH)
- BMW (Pench, MP)
- Kingfisher (Kanha, MP)
- Umarpani (Kanha, MP)
- Mukhtar (Pench, MH)
- Bamera (Bandhavgarh, MP)
- Khursapar male (Pench, MH)
- Samrat (Pench, MH)

Well for me the Kanha and Pench tigers do look superior in size compared to Bandhavgarh and Tadoba ones. Bandhavgarh for instance: even the reserves biggest males, after watching pictures and videos of them, and compare that to Munna, Behma, Umarpani, KF etc from Kanha and the big males from Pench they look like a level or two below them tbh. 

This is such a proof that ones view can be totally different from another's. I could not have disagreed more with you right here. Torn ears from Nagarhole looks just a big tiger to me, not a giant.. he's got a solid build, but seems to be very well fed and his head looks a little small.. but this is again my view.  

Wagdoh for sure is big! huge actually. And I think he gives more of a giant presence and seems bigger than he actually are. Again I don't say he's an average tiger, but for me the big Kanha and Pench males looks bigger for sure. They look longer, taller and more muscular. And I've seen people say that Wagdoh looks like the biggest male in India, but I have also talked to people that says he's not that big, and far from the sizes others make him out to be.. so again there is the fact that people look at things very differently. 

So we can say what we want, but unless we had their weight we can only discuss it and say our opinion. The best evidence of this is Jai whom I thought was one of the biggest tigers arround, he only weighed 220 kg as an adult, bheema weighed 225 kg, and he was only 2,5 years old.. and he was killed by an even larger male as an adult, and who knows what he weighed then? We could expect maybe arround 280 kg at least in winter I've heard. And Umarpani and Kingfisher can maybe have reached 300 kg's at the same time, and Umarpani had an even larger brother who disappeared. I just can't see wagdoh in that category tbh. 

Great list for sure, but how can you put Jai above Umarpani and Kingfisher, when the smaller bheema out weighed him at the age of 2,5 years? Also Bamera is not even close to be a top 10 tiger imo..

Cheers :)
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United States Roflcopters Offline
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( This post was last modified: 03-25-2017, 09:03 PM by Roflcopters )

Quote:Well for me the Kanha and Pench tigers do look superior in size compared to Bandhavgarh and Tadoba ones. Bandhavgarh for instance: even the reserves biggest males, after watching pictures and videos of them, and compare that to Munna, Behma, Umarpani, KF etc from Kanha and the big males from Pench they look like a level or two below them tbh

can you elaborate further on what you mean by level? I think you're underestimating every tiger that's not from Kanha and Pench. that's how i see it at least.


Quote:Wagdoh for sure is big! huge actually. And I think he gives more of a giant presence and seems bigger than he actually are. Again I don't say he's an average tiger, but for me the big Kanha and Pench males looks bigger for sure. They look longer, taller and more muscular. And I've seen people say that Wagdoh looks like the biggest male in India, but I have also talked to people that says he's not that big, and far from the sizes others make him out to be.. so again there is the fact that people look at things very differently.

I could say the same but we're not really going to get anywhere unless we have signficant data on hand to come to this conclusion. 


Quote:This is such a proof that ones view can be totally different from another's. I could not have disagreed more with you right here. Torn ears from Nagarhole looks just a big tiger to me, not a giant.. he's got a solid build, but seems to be very well fed and his head looks a little small.. but this is again my view.  


Torn Ears from Nagarhole is believed to be one of the biggest male tiger from that reserve, again your lack of knowledge is evident.

Quote:The best evidence of this is Jai whom I thought was one of the biggest tigers arround, he only weighed 220 kg as an adult, bheema weighed 225 kg, and he was only 2,5 years old.. and he was killed by an even larger male as an adult, and who knows what he weighed then? We could expect maybe arround 280 kg at least in winter I've heard. And Umarpani and Kingfisher can maybe have reached 300 kg's at the same time, and Umarpani had an even larger brother who disappeared. I just can't see wagdoh in that category tbh.

can you tell me if Bheema had any stomach content? was he full stomach? let's hear some details. also if you're going to mention that, both of Jai's cubs weighed 230kg at 2.5 years old. this really proves nothing. 280kg in the winter and 300kg? that sounds fanatical to me. I don't think Central Indian tigers have that potential and looking at BMW, Wagdoh, Kingfisher, Umarpani. they are easily comparable and no such thing as levels. that just seems over-exaggerated to me. 


Quote:Great list for sure, but how can you put Jai above Umarpani and Kingfisher, when the smaller bheema out weighed him at the age of 2,5 years? Also Bamera is not even close to be a top 10 tiger imo..



You clearly didnt read the part where i said, top 10 biggest in no order. 

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Norway Pantherinae Offline
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(03-25-2017, 08:46 PM)Roflcopters Wrote:
Quote:Well for me the Kanha and Pench tigers do look superior in size compared to Bandhavgarh and Tadoba ones. Bandhavgarh for instance: even the reserves biggest males, after watching pictures and videos of them, and compare that to Munna, Behma, Umarpani, KF etc from Kanha and the big males from Pench they look like a level or two below them tbh

can you elaborate further on what you mean by level? I think you're underestimating every tiger that's not from Kanha and Pench. that's how i see it at least.


Quote:Wagdoh for sure is big! huge actually. And I think he gives more of a giant presence and seems bigger than he actually are. Again I don't say he's an average tiger, but for me the big Kanha and Pench males looks bigger for sure. They look longer, taller and more muscular. And I've seen people say that Wagdoh looks like the biggest male in India, but I have also talked to people that says he's not that big, and far from the sizes others make him out to be.. so again there is the fact that people look at things very differently.

I could say the same but we're not really going to get anywhere unless we have signficant data on hand to come to this conclusion. 


Quote:This is such a proof that ones view can be totally different from another's. I could not have disagreed more with you right here. Torn ears from Nagarhole looks just a big tiger to me, not a giant.. he's got a solid build, but seems to be very well fed and his head looks a little small.. but this is again my view.  


Torn Ears from Nagarhole is believed to be one of the biggest male tiger from that reserve, again your lack of knowledge is evident.

Quote:The best evidence of this is Jai whom I thought was one of the biggest tigers arround, he only weighed 220 kg as an adult, bheema weighed 225 kg, and he was only 2,5 years old.. and he was killed by an even larger male as an adult, and who knows what he weighed then? We could expect maybe arround 280 kg at least in winter I've heard. And Umarpani and Kingfisher can maybe have reached 300 kg's at the same time, and Umarpani had an even larger brother who disappeared. I just can't see wagdoh in that category tbh.

can you tell me if Bheema had any stomach content? was he full stomach? let's hear some details. also if you're going to mention that, both of Jai's cubs weighed 230kg at 2.5 years old. this really proves nothing. 280kg in the winter and 300kg? that sounds fanatical to me. I don't think Central Indian tigers have that potential and looking at BMW, Wagdoh, Kingfisher, Umarpani. they are easily comparable and no such thing as levels. that just seems over-exaggerated to me. 


Quote:Great list for sure, but how can you put Jai above Umarpani and Kingfisher, when the smaller bheema out weighed him at the age of 2,5 years? Also Bamera is not even close to be a top 10 tiger imo..



You clearly didnt read the part where i said, top 10 biggest in no order. 


What I mean about level is very simply that they are not as big. 

Well it has nothing to do with underestimating at all, I'm just saying that Pench and Kanha tigers looks bigger (for me) regardless of eyewitnesses or others opinion that's how I look at them. Eyewitnesses accounts are great to have don't get me wrong, but that's not what I'm saying, this is just purely based on what I think. And for me Wagdoh, Bamera etc looks quite a bit smaller.. 

Well you really can't say lack of knowledge to me, when you you're self have not even slightest more knowledge or fact on this particular subject as neither of us has any single proof, just eyewitness own opinion.. so that I thought was really unnecessary and childish to even bring up. I don't think he looked that big, I would personally rather use Raja as the example of huge southern tigers tbh. 

No, I'll check that up and ask arround about that for sure (if he had stomach content). I don't know what bheema had eaten, but I heard speculation that he maybe bottomed out that scale. Even still I don't know if, what or how much he had/ hadn't eaten, but he weighed more regardless of that and he would most certinly surpass Jai with ease when he was older no matter how much he had eaten, as I know he grew quite a-lot afterwards. And you had listed Jai not his sons, but sorry for not noticing that you didn't put them in order.  

The 280 claim I took from a guy who had experience of watching tigers in Central India for almost three decades (28 years), it was not my statement, but it actually makes sense to me if he weighed 225 kg empty at 2,5 years (we will hopefully get that straightened up) Over exaggerating that a Central Indian tiger can be 300 kg?? I don't think so at all. A very big male lion can be 250 kg, then a very big Central Tiger can be 300 kg that I'm quite sure of.
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