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06-25-2022, 07:35 PM( This post was last modified: 06-26-2022, 07:25 AM by LonePredator )
(06-25-2022, 07:05 PM)Pckts Wrote:
(06-25-2022, 07:03 PM)LonePredator Wrote:
(06-25-2022, 06:57 PM)Pckts Wrote:
(06-25-2022, 06:16 PM)LonePredator Wrote:
(06-25-2022, 05:51 PM)Pckts Wrote:
(06-25-2022, 05:24 PM)LonePredator Wrote:
(06-25-2022, 05:09 PM)LandSeaLion Wrote:
(06-25-2022, 12:22 PM)Roflcopters Wrote: I can’t believe this is even a debate, it’s always some bear fan in the mix that thinks these bears are some invincible creatures walking freely in paradise without ever getting touched but reality is far different than what some fanboys like to believe. for starters, sloth bears and tigers generally avoid each other and in a serious encounter between the two. sloth bears are nothing more than a food source for the tigers that specialize in bear killing. Ravan, Kala Pahad male of Pench, Charger (Pench), Wagdoh, Jabbar and countless Kanha males have been observed killing and eating sloth bears and this is just the tip of the iceberg, let’s say i’m reaching. just this month alone, T-120 of Ranthambore and the dominant male of Chuka beach in Pilibhit were both observed killing and feasting on sloth bears. so how rare is this occurrence, who’s dominant over what? pretty one sided debate if i’m being realistic. pardon the tone.
I don't think this contradicts anything that Pckts said, to be honest. Some tigers do specialise in killing sloth bears, and are incredibly good at it. Generally speaking though, sloth bears are only a minor component of a tiger's diet, and not because they are too small to be worth bothering with (after all, tigers are opportunistic predators that will hunt monkeys, birds and porcupines, and also love to prey on wild boar, which are roughly the size of a male sloth bear). Sloth bears can be extremely aggressive in their own right, making them a tough prey to take on - especially when they are mothers defending their young. Faced with this aggression, many tigers will simply back off.
(06-25-2022, 02:09 PM)LonePredator Wrote:
(06-25-2022, 12:35 AM)Ashutosh Wrote: Just like there are Gaur specialists amongst tigers, there are certain sloth bear specialists as well. One of the current ones is Ravan 1.0 from Satpura. The forest guards at Satpura said his territory used to be littered with sloth bear fur. Sloth bears are rarely present in high density where tigers are present (this was corroborated by a study). But, Ravan went out of his way to hunt them.
Another one was Charger of Pench (father of the famous Mataram). Apparently, he had an appetite for the furry bear. Sloth bears have insanely long claws (longer than tiger’s claws) that they use for digging and as a defence mechanism. One slash would leave a tiger incapacitated which would very well mean death. So, I am guessing they are only a certain number of tigers which view them as prey (mothers protecting cubs not withstanding).
Bear claws don’t work like that. Bear claws are extremely blunt to such an extent that Bears rarely even use claw strikes in a fight unlike Tigers and Lions.
A claw strike from a Sloth Bear is unlikely to cause any serious damage to a Tiger.
Sloth bear claws are long and scimitar-shaped, like those of a sloth (which, funnily enough, is partly why they're called sloth bears). Their primary purpose is to split rocky termite mounds open; however, they are certainly long and strong enough to be able to inflict serious injury.
Quote:BAREILLY: A tiger found dead in a water hole in Dudhwa range of Dudwha National Park on Sunday may have been killed by a sloth bear, suspect Dudwha officials. While no pugmarks of another tiger were found around the water hole, images of a huge sloth bear have been captured by camera traps set 150 metres from the spot. The bear had a few scraches on its face and seemed to be moving about with difficulty.
"The nature of injuries on the neck and head of the tiger suggest they may have been caused during an attack by a sloth bear," said DTR field director Ramesh Pandey. The autopsy report submitted on Monday had said the tiger was killed by a "large carnivore" but did not specifically say it was another tiger.
Though a tiger being attacked by a bear is rare, Panday recalled an incident reported from Tadoba National Park in Maharashtra in 2018 when a male tiger, 'Matkasur', had picked up a fight with a sloth bear near a water hole. The fight was captured on camera by a tourist.
"The video showed the tiger was resting in the water when the sloth bear arrived with its cub. It fought with the bear possibly trying to defend its territory. But Matkasur lost the fight as it struggled to grip the bear's thick fur. Fortunately, the tiger survived," the field director said.
Pandey suspects that in Dudhwa, too, a similar situation arose. But in this case, the tiger was aged as it was over 12 years old. Such tigers are often thrown out of their territory and sometimes reside around water holes due to easy availability of prey. "This tiger may have fought with the sloth bear for dominance over the water hole as in Tadoba. However, this is not the final conclusion. We have also sought pictures captured by camera traps in Dudwha range during tiger census of 2018. This will help us in identifying if any other tiger is in this area.
"A bear is quite a powerful animal and its claws may cause deep wounds on the tiger's body," Pandey said.
Daksh Gangwar of Wildlife Trust of India, who was part of the veterinary team that conducted the autopsy, said, "The injuries were caused by a large powerful animal, possibly a carnivore. Such injuries can also be caused by a sloth bear because it has strong claws and can inflict serious injuries on a tiger."
(Side note: why are people so fixated on "vs" fights between tigers and bears? It feels like this topic has dominated most conversations about tigers on the board, including the "Premier" thread in the Edge of Extinction section.)
Scimitar shaped but not scimitar sharp. Their claws are extremely blunt and have a rounded end unlike felid claws which are sharp and have a pointy end.
Bears rarely even use their claws in a fight which tells those claws have little to no use for the purpose of fighting.
A slash from a Bear’s claws are not going to cause much damage to a Tiger but I doubt a Bear would even think of striking a Tiger with its claws because Bears simply don’t fight like that.
Their claws are still sharp and definitely cause damage. Hence why the small female was able to turtle up, get to her back and use her claws to get at Matkasurs face and get him to disengage his hold.
I’m not sure if you have dogs but I do, and they’re big, they’ve gashed me pretty good with their claws and those are nothing compared to sloth Bear. Victims of sloth Bear attacks are mutilated from their claws and teeth, you can bet both do serious damage.
What claw strikes?? I saw the fight and the Bear didn’t use any claw strikes. Why don’t you show a video of the Bear using claw strikes??
The Bear did nothing to Matkasur. Matkasur disengaged from the fight on his own. Stop saying the Bear ‘defeated’ him.
Matkasur already had the Bear by the nape and the Tiger had put the Bear in the killing position 3 times during the fight but chose not to kill it for some reason.
There’s nothing the Bear did to ‘make’ Matkasur disengage. And Tiger coat is very different from human skin, it’s not as fragile even with less fur.
Claw strikes from a Bear would do little to no damage to a Tiger. Can you even show me where the Bear used its claws to ‘get at’ Matkasur’s face? I saw the fight but I didn’t notice anything like that so show me what you’re talking about.
And of all the Bear fights I’ve seen, I’ve never seen Bears fighting with paw strikes like Lions and Tigers do. Bears don’t even use paw strikes in the first place.
Have you not seen the video?
See the bear turtle up and use her hind claws to rake the Matkasurs face to get him to release, she does this maneuver numerous times throughout the grappling. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xca4uX2N3Uk
Bears don’t swipe with the speed a big cat does, that’s not how they prefer to fight, they grapple and rake with their claws. Still effective and deadly in their own way.
What is the timestamp??
Starts at 1:44
Where??? All I see is the Bear trying to push away the Tiger to avoid getting bitten.
Can you show me any instance where the Bear is using its claws??
Quote:At the end of the day anyone who thinks a Tiger is going to easily dominate a Big male Sloth Bear is wrong. Can a Tiger kill one, absolutely but is that going to happen every time? Not a chance, the bear will also defeat the Tiger as well. Tigers being a solitary predator make them quicker to disengage when not fighting for mating rights, which again favor the bolder Bear.
most tigers don’t pay attention to sloth bears, they have a pretty good relationship for the most part. any bear that can bluff his way out of a serious mauling is usually a lucky bear. if a big male tiger is determined to kill a sloth bear. the sloth bear will pay with his/her life.
Quote:There’s been 1 documented encounter of a Tiger killing a sloth Bear in Kanha that I’m aware of
i read in a study on prey selection a while back, it mentioned sloth bears making the diet of some of the tigers in Kanha.
Quote:And of all the male tigers mentioned none of the Bears were male or particularly large except for possibly T-120s
that’s a big statement, prove it since you mentioned they weren’t males. male sloth bears are not invincible. they are nothing more than a food source. sure they can fend off attacks, they have driven off females/males at times but in a real fight to death. there is no saving a sloth bear. a male tiger is simply too strong.
i’m done with these fanatical debates that serve no real purpose, my opinion will never change. it is what it is.
If an adult tiger wants to kill a sloth bear, there will be a dead bear.
Sloth bears are no match for adult tigers, simply put tigers are too powerful.
But said that, tigers don't regularly hunt sloth bears. There is a peaceful co-existence between the two.
Its easier for tigers to hunt its regular prey than going for sloth bears, since there are chances for injuries, may be they don't taste that good and they do put up a good bluff when threatened.
There are several videos showing young and subadult tigers play fighting or being curious around sloth bears and then just simply running off.
There are videos of adult tigers trying fight or maul (not going for the kill) a sloth bear but then running off.
Here is an old video from Kanha NP, I forgot the name of the tiger but he killed the dominant male tiger of that territory a few days before this incident and wanted to assert is dominance over the territory.
The female sloth bear with her cub encountered the male tiger. She stood the ground (mama bear with her cub is the most aggressive bear) but the tiger killed her.
Later this male tiger developed a taste for sloth bear and hunted some.
Ranthambore zone 3, T120 feeding on sloth bear kill. Seems like an adult bear.
Here is Matkasur fighting with female bear with her subadult.
We can clearly see that Matkasur pinned the bear several times and if he had wanted to go for the kill, he could have killed her but he didn't.
Later when the tiger was tired, he ran off to the waterhole.
Kudos to mama bear for standing the ground and fighting.
Ill post more tiger and sloth bear interaction videos on my next post.
(06-25-2022, 12:22 PM)Roflcopters Wrote: I can’t believe this is even a debate, it’s always some bear fan in the mix that thinks these bears are some invincible creatures walking freely in paradise without ever getting touched but reality is far different than what some fanboys like to believe. for starters, sloth bears and tigers generally avoid each other and in a serious encounter between the two. sloth bears are nothing more than a food source for the tigers that specialize in bear killing. Ravan, Kala Pahad male of Pench, Charger (Pench), Wagdoh, Jabbar and countless Kanha males have been observed killing and eating sloth bears and this is just the tip of the iceberg, let’s say i’m reaching. just this month alone, T-120 of Ranthambore and the dominant male of Chuka beach in Pilibhit were both observed killing and feasting on sloth bears. so how rare is this occurrence, who’s dominant over what? pretty one sided debate if i’m being realistic. pardon the tone.
I don't think this contradicts anything that Pckts said, to be honest. Some tigers do specialise in killing sloth bears, and are incredibly good at it. Generally speaking though, sloth bears are only a minor component of a tiger's diet, and not because they are too small to be worth bothering with (after all, tigers are opportunistic predators that will hunt monkeys, birds and porcupines, and also love to prey on wild boar, which are roughly the size of a male sloth bear). Sloth bears can be extremely aggressive in their own right, making them a tough prey to take on - especially when they are mothers defending their young. Faced with this aggression, many tigers will simply back off.
(06-25-2022, 02:09 PM)LonePredator Wrote:
(06-25-2022, 12:35 AM)Ashutosh Wrote: Just like there are Gaur specialists amongst tigers, there are certain sloth bear specialists as well. One of the current ones is Ravan 1.0 from Satpura. The forest guards at Satpura said his territory used to be littered with sloth bear fur. Sloth bears are rarely present in high density where tigers are present (this was corroborated by a study). But, Ravan went out of his way to hunt them.
Another one was Charger of Pench (father of the famous Mataram). Apparently, he had an appetite for the furry bear. Sloth bears have insanely long claws (longer than tiger’s claws) that they use for digging and as a defence mechanism. One slash would leave a tiger incapacitated which would very well mean death. So, I am guessing they are only a certain number of tigers which view them as prey (mothers protecting cubs not withstanding).
Bear claws don’t work like that. Bear claws are extremely blunt to such an extent that Bears rarely even use claw strikes in a fight unlike Tigers and Lions.
A claw strike from a Sloth Bear is unlikely to cause any serious damage to a Tiger.
Sloth bear claws are long and scimitar-shaped, like those of a sloth (which, funnily enough, is partly why they're called sloth bears). Their primary purpose is to split rocky termite mounds open; however, they are certainly long and strong enough to be able to inflict serious injury.
Quote:BAREILLY: A tiger found dead in a water hole in Dudhwa range of Dudwha National Park on Sunday may have been killed by a sloth bear, suspect Dudwha officials. While no pugmarks of another tiger were found around the water hole, images of a huge sloth bear have been captured by camera traps set 150 metres from the spot. The bear had a few scraches on its face and seemed to be moving about with difficulty.
"The nature of injuries on the neck and head of the tiger suggest they may have been caused during an attack by a sloth bear," said DTR field director Ramesh Pandey. The autopsy report submitted on Monday had said the tiger was killed by a "large carnivore" but did not specifically say it was another tiger.
Though a tiger being attacked by a bear is rare, Panday recalled an incident reported from Tadoba National Park in Maharashtra in 2018 when a male tiger, 'Matkasur', had picked up a fight with a sloth bear near a water hole. The fight was captured on camera by a tourist.
"The video showed the tiger was resting in the water when the sloth bear arrived with its cub. It fought with the bear possibly trying to defend its territory. But Matkasur lost the fight as it struggled to grip the bear's thick fur. Fortunately, the tiger survived," the field director said.
Pandey suspects that in Dudhwa, too, a similar situation arose. But in this case, the tiger was aged as it was over 12 years old. Such tigers are often thrown out of their territory and sometimes reside around water holes due to easy availability of prey. "This tiger may have fought with the sloth bear for dominance over the water hole as in Tadoba. However, this is not the final conclusion. We have also sought pictures captured by camera traps in Dudwha range during tiger census of 2018. This will help us in identifying if any other tiger is in this area.
"A bear is quite a powerful animal and its claws may cause deep wounds on the tiger's body," Pandey said.
Daksh Gangwar of Wildlife Trust of India, who was part of the veterinary team that conducted the autopsy, said, "The injuries were caused by a large powerful animal, possibly a carnivore. Such injuries can also be caused by a sloth bear because it has strong claws and can inflict serious injuries on a tiger."
(Side note: why are people so fixated on "vs" fights between tigers and bears? It feels like this topic has dominated most conversations about tigers on the board, including the "Premier" thread in the Edge of Extinction section.)
Scimitar shaped but not scimitar sharp. Their claws are extremely blunt and have a rounded end unlike felid claws which are sharp and have a pointy end.
Bears rarely even use their claws in a fight which tells those claws have little to no use for the purpose of fighting.
A slash from a Bear’s claws are not going to cause much damage to a Tiger but I doubt a Bear would even think of striking a Tiger with its claws because Bears simply don’t fight like that.
Firstly: they don’t need to be scimitar sharp to do damage. Did you not read the link I posted? A veterinary team that conducted an autopsy on a dead tiger in Dudwha said that it was very likely the injuries could have been caused by a large sloth bear’s claws (and such a sloth bear was seen on a camera trap nearby, with its own set of injuries).
Secondly: yes, bears absolutely can and do attack like that. There are reports in the medical literature of the damage that sloth bears do with their claws when they attack unfortunate people, whom they perceive as a potential threat:
Quote:Most of the patients were middle-aged males [Table 1]. Only sloth bears were involved in all attacks. The mechanism of bear attack was mostly from the front with clawing in a high velocity swinging motion. The majority patients were referred to us after 24-48 h [Table 2].
Quote:Three species of bear are found in India, the Himalayan black bear, the brown bear and the sloth bear. Nagpur, which is surrounded by large number of forests, is a habitat only for sloth bears (Melursus ursus ursinus). They are medium-sized bears, with an average weight of 130 kg, 2-3 ft high at the shoulder and a body length of 4.6-6.3 ft. They are primarily nocturnal in nature and hunt for the food during the night. Their ideal habitat is a forested area with rocky outcrops. They mainly eat fruits, tubers and insects with special liking for Mahua flowers. Sloth bears probably view humans as potential predators, as their reactions to them (roaring, followed by retreat or charging) are similar to those evoked by the presence of tigers and leopards. The female sloth bear is most dangerous when she has babies with her and can attack immediately without provocation.[3,4]
Here’s an extremely graphic example of the damage inflicted by a paw swipe between two larger bears (this was an encounter between bears “Ted” and “Ugly” in 2007):
(06-26-2022, 11:12 AM)Apollo Wrote: When it comes to sloth bears and tigers.
If an adult tiger wants to kill a sloth bear, there will be a dead bear.
Sloth bears are no match for adult tigers, simply put tigers are too powerful.
But said that, tigers don't regularly hunt sloth bears. There is a peaceful co-existence between the two.
Its easier for tigers to hunt its regular prey than going for sloth bears, since there are chances for injuries, may be they don't taste that good and they do put up a good bluff when threatened.
There are several videos showing young and subadult tigers play fighting or being curious around sloth bears and then just simply running off.
There are videos of adult tigers trying fight or maul (not going for the kill) a sloth bear but then running off.
I think we all agree on basically 90% of this. It’s only the idea about sloth bears posing no threat whatsoever to tigers that’s under any contention.
06-26-2022, 11:43 AM( This post was last modified: 06-26-2022, 11:51 AM by LonePredator )
(06-26-2022, 11:28 AM)LandSeaLion Wrote:
(06-25-2022, 05:24 PM)LonePredator Wrote:
(06-25-2022, 05:09 PM)LandSeaLion Wrote:
(06-25-2022, 12:22 PM)Roflcopters Wrote: I can’t believe this is even a debate, it’s always some bear fan in the mix that thinks these bears are some invincible creatures walking freely in paradise without ever getting touched but reality is far different than what some fanboys like to believe. for starters, sloth bears and tigers generally avoid each other and in a serious encounter between the two. sloth bears are nothing more than a food source for the tigers that specialize in bear killing. Ravan, Kala Pahad male of Pench, Charger (Pench), Wagdoh, Jabbar and countless Kanha males have been observed killing and eating sloth bears and this is just the tip of the iceberg, let’s say i’m reaching. just this month alone, T-120 of Ranthambore and the dominant male of Chuka beach in Pilibhit were both observed killing and feasting on sloth bears. so how rare is this occurrence, who’s dominant over what? pretty one sided debate if i’m being realistic. pardon the tone.
I don't think this contradicts anything that Pckts said, to be honest. Some tigers do specialise in killing sloth bears, and are incredibly good at it. Generally speaking though, sloth bears are only a minor component of a tiger's diet, and not because they are too small to be worth bothering with (after all, tigers are opportunistic predators that will hunt monkeys, birds and porcupines, and also love to prey on wild boar, which are roughly the size of a male sloth bear). Sloth bears can be extremely aggressive in their own right, making them a tough prey to take on - especially when they are mothers defending their young. Faced with this aggression, many tigers will simply back off.
(06-25-2022, 02:09 PM)LonePredator Wrote:
(06-25-2022, 12:35 AM)Ashutosh Wrote: Just like there are Gaur specialists amongst tigers, there are certain sloth bear specialists as well. One of the current ones is Ravan 1.0 from Satpura. The forest guards at Satpura said his territory used to be littered with sloth bear fur. Sloth bears are rarely present in high density where tigers are present (this was corroborated by a study). But, Ravan went out of his way to hunt them.
Another one was Charger of Pench (father of the famous Mataram). Apparently, he had an appetite for the furry bear. Sloth bears have insanely long claws (longer than tiger’s claws) that they use for digging and as a defence mechanism. One slash would leave a tiger incapacitated which would very well mean death. So, I am guessing they are only a certain number of tigers which view them as prey (mothers protecting cubs not withstanding).
Bear claws don’t work like that. Bear claws are extremely blunt to such an extent that Bears rarely even use claw strikes in a fight unlike Tigers and Lions.
A claw strike from a Sloth Bear is unlikely to cause any serious damage to a Tiger.
Sloth bear claws are long and scimitar-shaped, like those of a sloth (which, funnily enough, is partly why they're called sloth bears). Their primary purpose is to split rocky termite mounds open; however, they are certainly long and strong enough to be able to inflict serious injury.
Quote:BAREILLY: A tiger found dead in a water hole in Dudhwa range of Dudwha National Park on Sunday may have been killed by a sloth bear, suspect Dudwha officials. While no pugmarks of another tiger were found around the water hole, images of a huge sloth bear have been captured by camera traps set 150 metres from the spot. The bear had a few scraches on its face and seemed to be moving about with difficulty.
"The nature of injuries on the neck and head of the tiger suggest they may have been caused during an attack by a sloth bear," said DTR field director Ramesh Pandey. The autopsy report submitted on Monday had said the tiger was killed by a "large carnivore" but did not specifically say it was another tiger.
Though a tiger being attacked by a bear is rare, Panday recalled an incident reported from Tadoba National Park in Maharashtra in 2018 when a male tiger, 'Matkasur', had picked up a fight with a sloth bear near a water hole. The fight was captured on camera by a tourist.
"The video showed the tiger was resting in the water when the sloth bear arrived with its cub. It fought with the bear possibly trying to defend its territory. But Matkasur lost the fight as it struggled to grip the bear's thick fur. Fortunately, the tiger survived," the field director said.
Pandey suspects that in Dudhwa, too, a similar situation arose. But in this case, the tiger was aged as it was over 12 years old. Such tigers are often thrown out of their territory and sometimes reside around water holes due to easy availability of prey. "This tiger may have fought with the sloth bear for dominance over the water hole as in Tadoba. However, this is not the final conclusion. We have also sought pictures captured by camera traps in Dudwha range during tiger census of 2018. This will help us in identifying if any other tiger is in this area.
"A bear is quite a powerful animal and its claws may cause deep wounds on the tiger's body," Pandey said.
Daksh Gangwar of Wildlife Trust of India, who was part of the veterinary team that conducted the autopsy, said, "The injuries were caused by a large powerful animal, possibly a carnivore. Such injuries can also be caused by a sloth bear because it has strong claws and can inflict serious injuries on a tiger."
(Side note: why are people so fixated on "vs" fights between tigers and bears? It feels like this topic has dominated most conversations about tigers on the board, including the "Premier" thread in the Edge of Extinction section.)
Scimitar shaped but not scimitar sharp. Their claws are extremely blunt and have a rounded end unlike felid claws which are sharp and have a pointy end.
Bears rarely even use their claws in a fight which tells those claws have little to no use for the purpose of fighting.
A slash from a Bear’s claws are not going to cause much damage to a Tiger but I doubt a Bear would even think of striking a Tiger with its claws because Bears simply don’t fight like that.
Firstly: they don’t need to be scimitar sharp to do damage. Did you not read the link I posted? A veterinary team that conducted an autopsy on a dead tiger in Dudwha said that it was very likely the injuries could have been caused by a large sloth bear’s claws (and such a sloth bear was seen on a camera trap nearby, with its own set of injuries).
Secondly: yes, bears absolutely can and do attack like that. There are reports in the medical literature of the damage that sloth bears do with their claws when they attack unfortunate people, whom they perceive as a potential threat:
Quote:Most of the patients were middle-aged males [Table 1]. Only sloth bears were involved in all attacks. The mechanism of bear attack was mostly from the front with clawing in a high velocity swinging motion. The majority patients were referred to us after 24-48 h [Table 2].
Quote:Three species of bear are found in India, the Himalayan black bear, the brown bear and the sloth bear. Nagpur, which is surrounded by large number of forests, is a habitat only for sloth bears (Melursus ursus ursinus). They are medium-sized bears, with an average weight of 130 kg, 2-3 ft high at the shoulder and a body length of 4.6-6.3 ft. They are primarily nocturnal in nature and hunt for the food during the night. Their ideal habitat is a forested area with rocky outcrops. They mainly eat fruits, tubers and insects with special liking for Mahua flowers. Sloth bears probably view humans as potential predators, as their reactions to them (roaring, followed by retreat or charging) are similar to those evoked by the presence of tigers and leopards. The female sloth bear is most dangerous when she has babies with her and can attack immediately without provocation.[3,4]
Here’s an extremely graphic example of the damage inflicted by a paw swipe between two larger bears (this was an encounter between bears “Ted” and “Ugly” in 2007):
*This image is copyright of its original author
Stop twisting the words. The autopsy report did NOT mention Sloth Bears. The autopsy report simply said that the Tiger was killed by a very large carnivore. And that could very likely be another Tiger.
This news article says that Sloth Bear would have killed the Tiger. Again, those are the words of this news article NOT of the official autopsy report. The autopsy report only said that the Tiger was killed by a ‘large carnivore’.
When people present similar cases of Tigers killing Brown Bears (such as the one from Batalov where Batalov EXPLICITLY stated that the Tiger killed the Bear unlike in this case) then you are quick to deny those, but you don’t do the same when it happens the other way around.
Why do you quickly accept the case that the Sloth Bear killed the Tiger but you quickly deny the case when an Amur Tiger killed a large male Brown Bear?? This means you’re being biased.
And just because Bears rake humans with their claws doesn’t mean they can do the same with a Tiger. An unarmed human is simply a powerless toy before these Bears which is why the Bears do this with humans.
Bear claws can’t cause much damage with quick slashes, and a Bear can only use quick claw slashes against a Tiger because obviously a Tiger wouldn’t let the Bear pin him to the ground and dig his claws in.
A Bear simply can’t do that with a Tiger, only with a human.
Can you show me any video footage of Bears fighting with paw swipes?? You can see tons of footages where Lions and Tigers fight with paw swipes while Bears don’t even use paw swipes 99% of the time so why do you think that is the case??
This is simply because a slash from a Bear’s claw would not do enough damage.
(06-25-2022, 12:22 PM)Roflcopters Wrote: I can’t believe this is even a debate, it’s always some bear fan in the mix that thinks these bears are some invincible creatures walking freely in paradise without ever getting touched but reality is far different than what some fanboys like to believe. for starters, sloth bears and tigers generally avoid each other and in a serious encounter between the two. sloth bears are nothing more than a food source for the tigers that specialize in bear killing. Ravan, Kala Pahad male of Pench, Charger (Pench), Wagdoh, Jabbar and countless Kanha males have been observed killing and eating sloth bears and this is just the tip of the iceberg, let’s say i’m reaching. just this month alone, T-120 of Ranthambore and the dominant male of Chuka beach in Pilibhit were both observed killing and feasting on sloth bears. so how rare is this occurrence, who’s dominant over what? pretty one sided debate if i’m being realistic. pardon the tone.
I don't think this contradicts anything that Pckts said, to be honest. Some tigers do specialise in killing sloth bears, and are incredibly good at it. Generally speaking though, sloth bears are only a minor component of a tiger's diet, and not because they are too small to be worth bothering with (after all, tigers are opportunistic predators that will hunt monkeys, birds and porcupines, and also love to prey on wild boar, which are roughly the size of a male sloth bear). Sloth bears can be extremely aggressive in their own right, making them a tough prey to take on - especially when they are mothers defending their young. Faced with this aggression, many tigers will simply back off.
(06-25-2022, 02:09 PM)LonePredator Wrote:
(06-25-2022, 12:35 AM)Ashutosh Wrote: Just like there are Gaur specialists amongst tigers, there are certain sloth bear specialists as well. One of the current ones is Ravan 1.0 from Satpura. The forest guards at Satpura said his territory used to be littered with sloth bear fur. Sloth bears are rarely present in high density where tigers are present (this was corroborated by a study). But, Ravan went out of his way to hunt them.
Another one was Charger of Pench (father of the famous Mataram). Apparently, he had an appetite for the furry bear. Sloth bears have insanely long claws (longer than tiger’s claws) that they use for digging and as a defence mechanism. One slash would leave a tiger incapacitated which would very well mean death. So, I am guessing they are only a certain number of tigers which view them as prey (mothers protecting cubs not withstanding).
Bear claws don’t work like that. Bear claws are extremely blunt to such an extent that Bears rarely even use claw strikes in a fight unlike Tigers and Lions.
A claw strike from a Sloth Bear is unlikely to cause any serious damage to a Tiger.
Sloth bear claws are long and scimitar-shaped, like those of a sloth (which, funnily enough, is partly why they're called sloth bears). Their primary purpose is to split rocky termite mounds open; however, they are certainly long and strong enough to be able to inflict serious injury.
Quote:BAREILLY: A tiger found dead in a water hole in Dudhwa range of Dudwha National Park on Sunday may have been killed by a sloth bear, suspect Dudwha officials. While no pugmarks of another tiger were found around the water hole, images of a huge sloth bear have been captured by camera traps set 150 metres from the spot. The bear had a few scraches on its face and seemed to be moving about with difficulty.
"The nature of injuries on the neck and head of the tiger suggest they may have been caused during an attack by a sloth bear," said DTR field director Ramesh Pandey. The autopsy report submitted on Monday had said the tiger was killed by a "large carnivore" but did not specifically say it was another tiger.
Though a tiger being attacked by a bear is rare, Panday recalled an incident reported from Tadoba National Park in Maharashtra in 2018 when a male tiger, 'Matkasur', had picked up a fight with a sloth bear near a water hole. The fight was captured on camera by a tourist.
"The video showed the tiger was resting in the water when the sloth bear arrived with its cub. It fought with the bear possibly trying to defend its territory. But Matkasur lost the fight as it struggled to grip the bear's thick fur. Fortunately, the tiger survived," the field director said.
Pandey suspects that in Dudhwa, too, a similar situation arose. But in this case, the tiger was aged as it was over 12 years old. Such tigers are often thrown out of their territory and sometimes reside around water holes due to easy availability of prey. "This tiger may have fought with the sloth bear for dominance over the water hole as in Tadoba. However, this is not the final conclusion. We have also sought pictures captured by camera traps in Dudwha range during tiger census of 2018. This will help us in identifying if any other tiger is in this area.
"A bear is quite a powerful animal and its claws may cause deep wounds on the tiger's body," Pandey said.
Daksh Gangwar of Wildlife Trust of India, who was part of the veterinary team that conducted the autopsy, said, "The injuries were caused by a large powerful animal, possibly a carnivore. Such injuries can also be caused by a sloth bear because it has strong claws and can inflict serious injuries on a tiger."
(Side note: why are people so fixated on "vs" fights between tigers and bears? It feels like this topic has dominated most conversations about tigers on the board, including the "Premier" thread in the Edge of Extinction section.)
Scimitar shaped but not scimitar sharp. Their claws are extremely blunt and have a rounded end unlike felid claws which are sharp and have a pointy end.
Bears rarely even use their claws in a fight which tells those claws have little to no use for the purpose of fighting.
A slash from a Bear’s claws are not going to cause much damage to a Tiger but I doubt a Bear would even think of striking a Tiger with its claws because Bears simply don’t fight like that.
Firstly: they don’t need to be scimitar sharp to do damage. Did you not read the link I posted? A veterinary team that conducted an autopsy on a dead tiger in Dudwha said that it was very likely the injuries could have been caused by a large sloth bear’s claws (and such a sloth bear was seen on a camera trap nearby, with its own set of injuries).
Secondly: yes, bears absolutely can and do attack like that. There are reports in the medical literature of the damage that sloth bears do with their claws when they attack unfortunate people, whom they perceive as a potential threat:
Quote:Most of the patients were middle-aged males [Table 1]. Only sloth bears were involved in all attacks. The mechanism of bear attack was mostly from the front with clawing in a high velocity swinging motion. The majority patients were referred to us after 24-48 h [Table 2].
Quote:Three species of bear are found in India, the Himalayan black bear, the brown bear and the sloth bear. Nagpur, which is surrounded by large number of forests, is a habitat only for sloth bears (Melursus ursus ursinus). They are medium-sized bears, with an average weight of 130 kg, 2-3 ft high at the shoulder and a body length of 4.6-6.3 ft. They are primarily nocturnal in nature and hunt for the food during the night. Their ideal habitat is a forested area with rocky outcrops. They mainly eat fruits, tubers and insects with special liking for Mahua flowers. Sloth bears probably view humans as potential predators, as their reactions to them (roaring, followed by retreat or charging) are similar to those evoked by the presence of tigers and leopards. The female sloth bear is most dangerous when she has babies with her and can attack immediately without provocation.[3,4]
Here’s an extremely graphic example of the damage inflicted by a paw swipe between two larger bears (this was an encounter between bears “Ted” and “Ugly” in 2007):
*This image is copyright of its original author
Stop twisting the words. The autopsy report did NOT even mention Sloth Bears. The autopsy report simply said that the Tiger was killed by a very large carnivore. And that could only be another Tiger.
Only this news article says that Sloth Bear would have killed the Tiger. Again, those are the words of this news article NOT of the autopsy report. The autopsy report only said that the Tiger was killed by a ‘large carnivore’.
Oh you are hopeless.
For the benefit of others reading this thread, here is the quote I was referring to:
Quote:Daksh Gangwar of Wildlife Trust of India, who was part of the veterinary team that conducted the autopsy, said: "The injuries were caused by a large powerful animal, possibly a carnivore. Such injuries can also be caused by a sloth bear because it has strong claws and can inflict serious injuries on a tiger."
Quote:When people present similar cases of Tigers killing Brown Bears (such as the one from Batalov where Batalov EXPLICITLY stated that the Tiger killed the Bear unlike in this case) then you are quick to deny those, but you don’t do the same when it happens the other way around.
Why do you quickly accept the case that the Sloth Bear killed the Tiger but you quickly deny the case when an Amur Tiger killed a large male Brown Bear?? This means you’re being biased.
What are you even talking about? You mean this post of mine in the Amur Tiger thread? The one where I was skeptical of the details of a fireside story told by a hunter/trapper with a very fantastical description and no evidence other than his words? And where I concluded:
Quote:(I’m not actually denying that a tiger could ambush and kill a bear, incidentally. I also think these stories are fascinating in the sense that they give an insight into how strongly the hunter/trapper living in the area feels about tigers (though also unpleasant to read, given that he describes hating and killing them mercilessly), which is why they’re included in the book. I just wouldn’t place as much credibility in them as I would a scientific report or paper!)
Gosh, how silly of me...
As for the rest, I'm not going to bother. This is a tiger predation thread, not a "tiger vs bear" thread, and this has already gone far enough off topic.
You are also a highly aggressive, combative and rude individual, as demonstrated at numerous points in time against multiple people.
06-26-2022, 03:03 PM( This post was last modified: 06-26-2022, 05:59 PM by LonePredator )
(06-26-2022, 12:23 PM)LandSeaLion Wrote:
(06-26-2022, 11:43 AM)LonePredator Wrote:
(06-26-2022, 11:28 AM)LandSeaLion Wrote:
(06-25-2022, 05:24 PM)LonePredator Wrote:
(06-25-2022, 05:09 PM)LandSeaLion Wrote:
(06-25-2022, 12:22 PM)Roflcopters Wrote: I can’t believe this is even a debate, it’s always some bear fan in the mix that thinks these bears are some invincible creatures walking freely in paradise without ever getting touched but reality is far different than what some fanboys like to believe. for starters, sloth bears and tigers generally avoid each other and in a serious encounter between the two. sloth bears are nothing more than a food source for the tigers that specialize in bear killing. Ravan, Kala Pahad male of Pench, Charger (Pench), Wagdoh, Jabbar and countless Kanha males have been observed killing and eating sloth bears and this is just the tip of the iceberg, let’s say i’m reaching. just this month alone, T-120 of Ranthambore and the dominant male of Chuka beach in Pilibhit were both observed killing and feasting on sloth bears. so how rare is this occurrence, who’s dominant over what? pretty one sided debate if i’m being realistic. pardon the tone.
I don't think this contradicts anything that Pckts said, to be honest. Some tigers do specialise in killing sloth bears, and are incredibly good at it. Generally speaking though, sloth bears are only a minor component of a tiger's diet, and not because they are too small to be worth bothering with (after all, tigers are opportunistic predators that will hunt monkeys, birds and porcupines, and also love to prey on wild boar, which are roughly the size of a male sloth bear). Sloth bears can be extremely aggressive in their own right, making them a tough prey to take on - especially when they are mothers defending their young. Faced with this aggression, many tigers will simply back off.
(06-25-2022, 02:09 PM)LonePredator Wrote:
(06-25-2022, 12:35 AM)Ashutosh Wrote: Just like there are Gaur specialists amongst tigers, there are certain sloth bear specialists as well. One of the current ones is Ravan 1.0 from Satpura. The forest guards at Satpura said his territory used to be littered with sloth bear fur. Sloth bears are rarely present in high density where tigers are present (this was corroborated by a study). But, Ravan went out of his way to hunt them.
Another one was Charger of Pench (father of the famous Mataram). Apparently, he had an appetite for the furry bear. Sloth bears have insanely long claws (longer than tiger’s claws) that they use for digging and as a defence mechanism. One slash would leave a tiger incapacitated which would very well mean death. So, I am guessing they are only a certain number of tigers which view them as prey (mothers protecting cubs not withstanding).
Bear claws don’t work like that. Bear claws are extremely blunt to such an extent that Bears rarely even use claw strikes in a fight unlike Tigers and Lions.
A claw strike from a Sloth Bear is unlikely to cause any serious damage to a Tiger.
Sloth bear claws are long and scimitar-shaped, like those of a sloth (which, funnily enough, is partly why they're called sloth bears). Their primary purpose is to split rocky termite mounds open; however, they are certainly long and strong enough to be able to inflict serious injury.
Quote:BAREILLY: A tiger found dead in a water hole in Dudhwa range of Dudwha National Park on Sunday may have been killed by a sloth bear, suspect Dudwha officials. While no pugmarks of another tiger were found around the water hole, images of a huge sloth bear have been captured by camera traps set 150 metres from the spot. The bear had a few scraches on its face and seemed to be moving about with difficulty.
"The nature of injuries on the neck and head of the tiger suggest they may have been caused during an attack by a sloth bear," said DTR field director Ramesh Pandey. The autopsy report submitted on Monday had said the tiger was killed by a "large carnivore" but did not specifically say it was another tiger.
Though a tiger being attacked by a bear is rare, Panday recalled an incident reported from Tadoba National Park in Maharashtra in 2018 when a male tiger, 'Matkasur', had picked up a fight with a sloth bear near a water hole. The fight was captured on camera by a tourist.
"The video showed the tiger was resting in the water when the sloth bear arrived with its cub. It fought with the bear possibly trying to defend its territory. But Matkasur lost the fight as it struggled to grip the bear's thick fur. Fortunately, the tiger survived," the field director said.
Pandey suspects that in Dudhwa, too, a similar situation arose. But in this case, the tiger was aged as it was over 12 years old. Such tigers are often thrown out of their territory and sometimes reside around water holes due to easy availability of prey. "This tiger may have fought with the sloth bear for dominance over the water hole as in Tadoba. However, this is not the final conclusion. We have also sought pictures captured by camera traps in Dudwha range during tiger census of 2018. This will help us in identifying if any other tiger is in this area.
"A bear is quite a powerful animal and its claws may cause deep wounds on the tiger's body," Pandey said.
Daksh Gangwar of Wildlife Trust of India, who was part of the veterinary team that conducted the autopsy, said, "The injuries were caused by a large powerful animal, possibly a carnivore. Such injuries can also be caused by a sloth bear because it has strong claws and can inflict serious injuries on a tiger."
(Side note: why are people so fixated on "vs" fights between tigers and bears? It feels like this topic has dominated most conversations about tigers on the board, including the "Premier" thread in the Edge of Extinction section.)
Scimitar shaped but not scimitar sharp. Their claws are extremely blunt and have a rounded end unlike felid claws which are sharp and have a pointy end.
Bears rarely even use their claws in a fight which tells those claws have little to no use for the purpose of fighting.
A slash from a Bear’s claws are not going to cause much damage to a Tiger but I doubt a Bear would even think of striking a Tiger with its claws because Bears simply don’t fight like that.
Firstly: they don’t need to be scimitar sharp to do damage. Did you not read the link I posted? A veterinary team that conducted an autopsy on a dead tiger in Dudwha said that it was very likely the injuries could have been caused by a large sloth bear’s claws (and such a sloth bear was seen on a camera trap nearby, with its own set of injuries).
Secondly: yes, bears absolutely can and do attack like that. There are reports in the medical literature of the damage that sloth bears do with their claws when they attack unfortunate people, whom they perceive as a potential threat:
Quote:Most of the patients were middle-aged males [Table 1]. Only sloth bears were involved in all attacks. The mechanism of bear attack was mostly from the front with clawing in a high velocity swinging motion. The majority patients were referred to us after 24-48 h [Table 2].
Quote:Three species of bear are found in India, the Himalayan black bear, the brown bear and the sloth bear. Nagpur, which is surrounded by large number of forests, is a habitat only for sloth bears (Melursus ursus ursinus). They are medium-sized bears, with an average weight of 130 kg, 2-3 ft high at the shoulder and a body length of 4.6-6.3 ft. They are primarily nocturnal in nature and hunt for the food during the night. Their ideal habitat is a forested area with rocky outcrops. They mainly eat fruits, tubers and insects with special liking for Mahua flowers. Sloth bears probably view humans as potential predators, as their reactions to them (roaring, followed by retreat or charging) are similar to those evoked by the presence of tigers and leopards. The female sloth bear is most dangerous when she has babies with her and can attack immediately without provocation.[3,4]
Here’s an extremely graphic example of the damage inflicted by a paw swipe between two larger bears (this was an encounter between bears “Ted” and “Ugly” in 2007):
*This image is copyright of its original author
Stop twisting the words. The autopsy report did NOT even mention Sloth Bears. The autopsy report simply said that the Tiger was killed by a very large carnivore. And that could only be another Tiger.
Only this news article says that Sloth Bear would have killed the Tiger. Again, those are the words of this news article NOT of the autopsy report. The autopsy report only said that the Tiger was killed by a ‘large carnivore’.
Oh you are hopeless.
For the benefit of others reading this thread, here is the quote I was referring to:
Quote:Daksh Gangwar of Wildlife Trust of India, who was part of the veterinary team that conducted the autopsy, said: "The injuries were caused by a large powerful animal, possibly a carnivore. Such injuries can also be caused by a sloth bear because it has strong claws and can inflict serious injuries on a tiger."
Quote:When people present similar cases of Tigers killing Brown Bears (such as the one from Batalov where Batalov EXPLICITLY stated that the Tiger killed the Bear unlike in this case) then you are quick to deny those, but you don’t do the same when it happens the other way around.
Why do you quickly accept the case that the Sloth Bear killed the Tiger but you quickly deny the case when an Amur Tiger killed a large male Brown Bear?? This means you’re being biased.
What are you even talking about? You mean this post of mine in the Amur Tiger thread? The one where I was skeptical of the details of a fireside story told by a hunter/trapper with a very fantastical description and no evidence other than his words? And where I concluded:
Quote:(I’m not actually denying that a tiger could ambush and kill a bear, incidentally. I also think these stories are fascinating in the sense that they give an insight into how strongly the hunter/trapper living in the area feels about tigers (though also unpleasant to read, given that he describes hating and killing them mercilessly), which is why they’re included in the book. I just wouldn’t place as much credibility in them as I would a scientific report or paper!)
Gosh, how silly of me...
As for the rest, I'm not going to bother. This is a tiger predation thread, not a "tiger vs bear" thread, and this has already gone far enough off topic.
You are also a highly aggressive, combative and rude individual, as demonstrated at numerous points in time against multiple people.
No, that wasn’t the incident I was referring to. I was referring to the report by Alexander Batalov of an Amur Tiger killing a large male Brown Bear. You should check that report.
And like I said the official report never mentioned a Sloth Bear. Even the individual did not explicitly state that the Tiger was killed by the Bear. No one claimed with any certainty that the Tiger was killed by the Bear and it’s very likely that another Tiger was involved.
06-27-2022, 05:47 AM( This post was last modified: 06-27-2022, 05:48 AM by Roflcopters )
Quote:I don't think this contradicts anything that Pckts said, to be honest. Some tigers do specialise in killing sloth bears, and are incredibly good at it. Generally speaking though, sloth bears are only a minor component of a tiger's diet, and not because they are too small to be worth bothering with (after all, tigers are opportunistic predators that will hunt monkeys, birds and porcupines, and also love to prey on wild boar, which are roughly the size of a male sloth bear). Sloth bears can be extremely aggressive in their own right, making them a tough prey to take on - especially when they are mothers defending their young. Faced with this aggression, many tigers will simply back off.
@LandSeaLion Agreed. they make up a small part of a tiger’s true diet. like i mentioned. for the majority of times. tigers and sloth bears generally co-exist without much conflict but the predator-prey relation is certainly there and something that can’t be denied.
Quote:This idea that because the Tiger hunts an animal also means that they dominate it is wrong. Lions hunt Cape Buffalo but you can bet a male Cape will dominate a Lion more often than not and the same holds true with a Gaur and Tiger.
Next is @apex titan posted an Amur Tiger study with the mention of Bear appearing more during the spring months. The problem is that if you actually read that study you find out it’s only in regards to scat sample which again doesn’t segregate age/sex/health or how the incident occurs or if the prey was even alive when the predator happened upon it. Scats can also be bias towards larger prey since they stay in the system longer and cluster together over an extended period of time. Meaning larger prey items tend to show up more than smaller ones that are out of the system fast and tougher to track. Also noted in the study is the vulnerability of young during those months which could also contribute to predation bias. Some people like to lump all kills into healthy adults but like with most other dangerous game, a big cat will generally prefer a weaker individual of that species.
The study shows that bears make up a large significant portion of the tigers diet in summer, not spring. And it also clearly states: "Although tigers prey on adult bears". Thats exactly how biologists accurately determine what a tiger is regularly hunting, by examining scat samples. If wild boar remains are regularly found in tiger scats, that means that tigers are regularly hunting and killing wild boar, if deer remains are regularly found in tiger scats, then that means that tigers are regularly hunting deer. And the fact that numerous biologists regularly find the remains of bears (claws, fur, bone fragments) in tigers excrements, confirmsand clearly indicates that tigers are regularly hunting bears.
And the fact that claws of adult bears are often found in tiger scats, means that tigers are regularly hunting and killing adult bears. Plain and simple.
According to the Siberian Tiger Project study, tigers primarily hunted bears (brown & black) in the fall. And most of the bears hunted and killed by tigers were ADULT bears. Biologists found at least 6 bears killed by the tiger Dima. He (with only 3 canines!) killed 4 adult female brown bears, one adult male black bear and a young brown bear. The rest of the many bears he killed throughout his lifetime, their remains were found in his scats. Bears made up over 80% of his diet.
Tkachenko, a biologist & senior researcher, also observed that tigers regularly prey on adult bears; His studies show that tigers readily prey on Himalayan black bears of all ages and genders and regularly hunt and kill adult bears of both sexes (Same as Sergey Kolchin's field observations).
Specific Features of Feeding of the Amur Tiger Panthera tigris altaica (Carnivora, Felidae) in a Densely Populated Locality (with Reference to Bol’shekhekhtsirskii Reserve and Its Environs). K.N. Tkachenko, 2012
"Himalayan black bears (individuals of any age and sex) were more frequently attacked by tigers (Tkachenko, 2008). Two Himalayan bears—tiger’s prey—found in the reserve appeared to be adult (one of them male, the other, presumably, female). Claws of adult bears were also found repeatedly in the excreta of tigers.According to observations in Bol’shekhekhtsirskii Reserve, the tiger successfully hunted the Himalayan black bear at any time of the year."
"The suggestion that the tigers attack bears only when there is an insufficient amount of its usual food—boar and Manchurian wapiti—(Rukovsky, 1968) is not quite correct since attacks take place also at their high numbers. Male tiger A specialized on hunting Himalayan black bear. The remains of two bears of this species found by us are its prey. In excreta (n = 56) of this individual collected from 1992 to 2000, bear remains comprised 31.6%, in particular, that of the Himalayan black bear, 22.8%; that of BROWN BEAR, 7%; and that of bear not determined up to species, 1.7%."
"From November to March, the occurrence of the Himalayan black bear in the feeding of tiger was 22.7% and from April to October, slightly lower, 16.7%. Brown bear, on the contrary, in the cold time of the year was recorded much more rarely (2.7%) than in the warm time ( 16.7% )."
"In Lazovsky Reserve in the feeding of the tiger, only Himalayan black bear was recorded (Zhivotchenko, 1981; Khramtsov, 1993). According to other studies performed in middle Sikhote-Alin, it attacks this species more seldom than the brown bear (Bromlei, 1965; Kostoglod, 1977; Seryodkin et al., 2005). Apparently, such a contradiction is explained by the difference of individual ecological conditions in areas where studies were performed. However, the fact that the Himalayan black bear of any sex and age is a typical prey of the tiger is obvious (Sysoev, 1960, 1966; Gorokhov, 1973; Kostoglod, 1977, 1981; Khramtsov,1993; Seryodkin et al., 2005; Yudin and Yudina, 2009; author’s unpublished data)."
V.G. Yudin, Batalov, Kolchin, Fomenko, Miquelle, Kerley, Matiukhina, Kucherenko, as well as many other biologists and researchers all have observed and documented that bears are common prey for tigers, especially in summer and autumn.
The fact that Amur tigers regularly prey on adult bears primarily during the summer and fall, when bears are in peak condition and full strength, just goes to show that even the larger bear subspecies like Ussuri brown bears and black bears (bigger than sloth bears) do not pose any serious threat to tigers, hence why bears are frequently killed and eaten, and hence why some tigers even prefer hunting (habitually) and eating bears instead of ungulate prey animals.
Wherever tigers and bears co-exist, bears are food for tigers. - An established scientific fact. And that is clear dominance, how can you deny that? One carnivore regularly murdering and eating another carnivore is pure dominance. Not to mention that tigers regulate bear populations in Russia and Northeast China (Taipinggou Reserve).
And Yoganand did observe and report that sloth bears actively avoid tigers.
Quote:At the end of the day anyone who thinks a Tiger is going to easily dominate a Big male Sloth Bear is wrong. Can a Tiger kill one, absolutely but is that going to happen every time? Not a chance, the bear will also defeat the Tiger as well. Tigers being a solitary predator make them quicker to disengage when not fighting for mating rights, which again favor the bolder Bear.
What do you mean by "defeat" ?? You mean "kill" the tiger? A tiger holds every single physical advantage over a big male sloth bear. (i.e. size, weight, strength, power, speed, weaponry, biteforce, killing abilities). Its a complete mismatchin clear favour of the tiger.
At best, a big male sloth bear can sometimes fend off an undetermined tigers attack, but in a serious fight to the death, the bear will always end up being the tigers dinner.
And like I said before, if the sloth bear posed any "threat" to a tiger, then there simply wouldn't be TONS of accounts throughout the history of tigers slaughtering and eating sloth bears. Going by your logic and arguments, these cases would be very rare, but there not, they've happened countless times and continue to happen today. Your grossly over-exaggerating the sloth bears capabilities.
06-27-2022, 06:57 PM( This post was last modified: 06-27-2022, 07:19 PM by Apex Titan )
Here's a scientific study indicating that tigers in southeast Asia commonly prey on bears (sun bears & Asiatic black bears) and are major predators of bears throughout their entire distribution in the wild.
"In both sites bears were common food of tigers, whereas they were rarely if ever consumed by dholes."
"This indicates that, even when exposed to the same availability of bears, tigers consume significantly more bears than do dholes. This also suggests that consumption of bears by tigers was due to predation instead of scavenging, because both tigers and dholes would have been expected to consume bears in similar amounts if bear carcasses had been available on the sites."
"Tigers, in particular, might be the most important predator of sun bears on mainland Southeast Asia and Sumatra, given that bear remains were found in all sites within Southeast Asia where their diet was determined, and in 2 of those sites bears were common prey items."
Indo-chinese tigers and Sumatran tigers also regularly prey on bears (Sun bears & Asiatic black bears). Amur tigers regularly prey on brown bears and black bears. And sloth bears are hunted, killed and eaten by Bengal tigers too. Which clearly shows and proves that the tiger and bear co-existence is a clear predator-prey relation.
Six sloth bears killed and eaten by one tiger:
*This image is copyright of its original author
There are several instances of tigers predating on sloth bears. A full-grown Malayan sun bear was killed and devoured by a tiger. Some of these authors were told by their guides and locals, that these incidences are NOT uncommon:
