The Matimba coalition

[Pckts]

"4. I won't let anyone "post in peace" as long as he's posting wrong info and I can prove this with documents. "

You have no say over what someone posts, you're not a mod.
 
His post seems to be backed by people in the know, they look pretty legitimate to me. Reply

[Georgel]

(01-05-2017, 01:52 AM)Pckts Wrote: "4. I won't let anyone "post in peace" as long as he's posting wrong info and I can prove this with documents. "

You have no say over what someone posts, you're not a mod.
 
His post seems to be backed by people in the know, they look pretty legitimate to me.

I can say over anyone post if I have something to say. Before concluding that "His post seems to be backed by people in the know, they look pretty legitimate to me." try to read my post. I claimed that no one can deny a fight who took place on June 19th by showing photos from June 18th. I hope you can agree with this.

Anyway, if you have time can also read the post #260. Reply

[Georgel]

(01-04-2017, 11:09 PM)Fredymrt Wrote:

(01-04-2017, 08:49 PM)Georgel Wrote: 1. Why do you use caps lock? This is extremely impolite (in case you didn't know this is time to find out).

2. The supposed fight between Mapogos and Matimbas has been discussed in detail in the Mapogos dedicated thread. Anyway, you missed something: it is assumed to has taken place on June 19th 2011.

3. Nice pictures of the Matimbas.

4. Last but not least, in order to be credible it's good to post the source of the information.

For more details see here:
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=...cation=ufi

For more details see here

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

It's good to see that you are supporting your point of view with some more reliable evidence. Let's agree that a fight who took place on June 19th can't be denied by some photos taken on June 18th.

Moreover, if you check my last posts in the Mapogos' thread (#800 and #802) can see that I didn't mention any fight between the Mapogos and Matimbas. Just posted a photo of Khimbini.

It's pretty clear the Mapogos had a fight on June 19th. Not clear with whom. (But to suppose that they fought with their two Ottawa sons, 3 vs 2, and look so beaten is surreal.) Reply

[Georgel]

(01-04-2017, 07:07 PM)Fredymrt Wrote:

*This image is copyright of its original author

Then the discussion of a massive fight between the matimba and mapogos erupted.  have a look at the above pictures  and you tell me if there are any battle wounds on hb and his brother?
There was no fight between matimbas and mapogos

If I understand well, among so many photos and a far from clear video, you want to say that the two coalitions, that is, Mapogos and Matimbas, where too far one from the other on June 18th, making impossible an encounter on June 19th. Maybe you are right (although the info you posted has no clear source; why should we trust you that the photos have been taken on June 18th?). I have no idea how many miles are between Ottawa and Djuma, but I also know that lions travel a lot, covering huge distances in short time. Reply

[Tshokwane]

Credits to James Tyrrell.

The dark-maned Matimba male moves under moody skies.

*This image is copyright of its original author

Reply

[Georgel]

(11-02-2016, 02:39 PM)fursan syed Wrote: - 3 Mapogos versus 3 Matimbas -
Mak,T and PB vs. HB, Ginger and the oldest Matimba
The mystery night June 19th 2011

(by Mark Broodryk, Head Guide, Singita Sabi Sand June - 22 - 2011)
"Forty-eight hours ago we located 3 adult male lions just north of the lodge (presumed to be the ones people refer to as “the Mapogos”). We found them by responding to vocalization; it sounded like a massive fight between adult male lions. On locating these three, we noticed that they had been badly beaten, were bloodied and received massive fresh scars from the ensuing morning battle. The three of them walked off with a very determined striding pace and didn’t even stop or look back to the area where the battle took place and continued south and west across the Sand river into the western Sabi Sand and we haven’t seen them since. Meanwhile south of the river, roughly around the same time, some new male lions killed a younger male from the southern pride. We presumed the murderers to be the so called “Majingilanes". We haven’t had too much exposure to these individuals and thus will be trying to put together some photo identity kits of these individuals. What is important to note, is that these were not necessarily the same individuals involved in the skirmish north of the river! We never located the individuals that ousted the “Mapogos” and thus could well have been other individuals. Unfortunately this is all we have at this stage, but will keep you posted should we have a more accurate assessment as to what is currently happening amongst the territorial males in the area."

by Khimbini Hlongwane
"Last the three mapogo were very vocal north of inyati lodge I then visited Singita and again on North of ebony lodge there male lions roaring the whole night. This morning I tracked three mapogo from inyati airstrip all the way east and they crossed ottawa corseway in the direction where the other lions were roaring. They ran straight into *matimbas. They got into a serious battle but when the Singita Guides got to the area they saw the mapogos running back west carrying few bloody wounds. We are still not sure status of the *matimbas because they won't come out of one the thick blocks on north eastern part of ottawa."

*Mistakenly Khimbini thought it would be the Majingilanes.

by Mele Andru
"Khimbi it seems 3 Majingi were not involved in this battle beeing too busy to mating with 2 Sparta lionesses in Mala Mala ( and that for 3 days ) . It could be simply another coalition , less probably to be young males because you herd many roarings during night . I hope this informations will help . Keep in touch !"

by Kyaw Soe Win
"No, it was 3 Matimba males known also as Sava males. Sava = shy , Matimba = stronge.
Now they are not shy anymore, Even bigger and stronger.
They are 6 brothers.
5 are 5 years and 1 is 7 years old.
Last week they probably injured one of Majingilanes with dark means seriously.
I got this information in a email from photographer who has taken many pictures of Matimba/Sava males. I am sure the rangers from Singita can confirm it."

by Chris O'Neil
"It does indeed look like it may have been 3 of the Matimbas. And the Majingis have also been around Matimba territory too apparently. I heard from Singita that they killed a young Southern Pride (Selati) male recently."

Singita rangers had no idea with whom fought the Mapogos.

Khimbini erroneously thought they fought with the Majingilanes. (Using quotation marks and changing his writing isn't fair I guess.) 

The comments under Khimbini facebook post
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=...cation=ufi
are only suppositions.

I've looked around about this event and it seems no one can make a definite statement. Reply

[Georgel]

For those who still think the Mapogos fought with Ottawa Boys on June 19th, 2011 I repost this (see also the post #678 from Mapogos thread):

Wildlife Journal June 2011

by Khimbini Hlongwane

The three members of the Mapogo coalition, have had a difficult time this month, they have had at least two fights excluding the interaction they had with the Ottawa young males, where the young males were badly wounded and one almost had his spine broken.

Note how alert they become every time the bush moves and look at all the scares on them. A week later after the first fight one of the males, Mr T went to get his face ‘redone’ in another fight (see claw marks on his face).

Photo credit: Khimbini Hlongwane

*This image is copyright of its original author

Reply

[Georgel]

(10-27-2016, 07:29 PM)Majingilane Wrote:

(10-27-2016, 04:17 PM)Georgel Wrote: I never heard of Dark Mane Majingilane badly injured by the Matimbas.

That is because it didn't happen. There was no physical confrontation. If you keep reading the blog's updates, you will see that there's a couple of mentions of the Matimba males, and then they keep seeing the Majingilane males, who obviously came back to ensure the dominance over the area, and then the mentions of the Matimbas stop.

Quote:we can assume that the Majingilanes left some areas because they had to, pushed out by other coalitions, not because they get bored by the lionesses of some prides.

More than "pushed out" it may be "pressured". But they weren't pushed out by the Matimbas, certainly.

When they lost interest on the Styx pride and stayed south with the other prides, it wasn't the Matimbas who became dominant over this pride, but the Nkuhuma males.

Matimbas pushed the Majingilanes south
Mala Mala report, August 2011

"They have been spending less and less time in the northern parts of the Mlowathi, which at the beginning of the year was where we’d always find them. This could be due to them spending most of the month with the Eyrefield pride, but it’s more likely due to pressure coming from the north in the form of six young males. Reports are that these males are about 18 months younger and looking for territory. There have been a few skirmishes between the two coalitions already, and it looks like the lines have been drawn along our northern boundary. It is going to be interesting to see what happens in the next few months, and where that is going to leave the prides."

http://www.malamala.com/wp-content/uploa...t-2011.pdf Reply

[LionKiss]

#324

therefore, the rumor that the Majingilane were forced out of NorthEast SS by the Matimbas is a reality Reply

[Georgel]

(01-08-2017, 12:44 PM)LionKiss Wrote: #324

therefore, the rumor that the Majingilane were forced out of NorthEast SS by the Matimbas is a reality

It seems so. After failing west with the Mapogos they turned south, and by the end of 2011 the northern SS was lost for the Majingilanes.

Reply

[Georgel]

On a facebook page which I'm unable to locate (most likely The Mapogos - Lions of Sabi Sand) Colleen Holland posted the following comment:

"There were 5 unknown males in Western Gowrie on Saturday June 18th but only two were seen by the Wildearth presenter on live drive as apparently the 5 had split up. They were thought to be the Matimbas but never confirmed. Also, in the weeks prior to the fight, there had been 4 unknown males seen crossing over into Nkorho from Kruger, and 3 or so unidentified males in Western Gowrie crossing back into Manyeleti. Many possibilities, but the Matimba/Sava males had been venturing into Northern SS more frequently around that time. Since no one saw the fight, one can only speculate who it could have been. Personally, I thought it was most likely some of the Matimbas but how people come to the conclusion on who won is beyond me."

I don't know if the Mapogos won that fight (definitely didn't lose!), but since then the Matimbas stopped showing up on western SS and turned south. Reply

[Tshokwane]

(01-08-2017, 12:44 PM)LionKiss Wrote: the rumor that the Majingilane were forced out of NorthEast SS by the Matimbas is a reality

It is just that, a rumor.

The only reality is that the Majingilane simply left Nkorho. In fact, Karin van der Merwe once said that she was somewhat angry because after all that happened with tha Mapogos, the Majingilane didn't say there, but they went south.

Why did they went south? Simple. To takeover new territories, new prides. 

The Matimbas merely took something that was left all alone, as they did last year.

http://www.malamala.com/wp-content/uploa...y-2012.pdf:

The six young males that the four brothers had a run in with last year haven’t tried to venture in from the north again since their last failed attempt.

@Georgel, the link worked just fine, the embedding didn't, for some reason. 

But the whole report is unneccesary, just the bit concerning the Matimbas. It's their thread, after all. Reply

[LionKiss]

I don't take this @Majingilane,
lions don't abandon Prides and land unless they are forced to.

They already had serious presence in Malamala but after the advent of the Matimbas they became less frequent even in the Mlowathi area which is the Northern part of MM Reply

[Tshokwane]

(01-08-2017, 06:18 PM)LionKiss Wrote: I don't take this, lions don't abandon Prides and land unless they are forced to.

That is simply not true.

Two examples I'll give.

1- The very same Majingilane when they expelled the Selati males in 2014. No one, and I mean this, no one "forced them out" of Mala mala and Londolozi, and the respective prides they controlled in that huge territory, being the Tsalala pride and the Sparta pride. 

And prior to that, they had controlled the Styx and Fourways prides, before leaving these and going to the Sparta and Tsalala prides.

2- The Notch males. They have an extensive history of conquering territories and prides, mating with them, raising offspring and then moving off to conquer new ones. Reply

[LionKiss]

(01-08-2017, 08:22 PM)Majingilane Wrote: 1- The very same Majingilane when they expelled the Selati males in 2014. No one, and I mean this, no one "forced them out" of Mala mala and Londolozi, and the respective prides they controlled in that huge territory, being the Tsalala pride and the Sparta pride. 

And prior to that, they had controlled the Styx and Fourways prides, before leaving these and going to the Sparta and Tsalala prides.

The Majingilane were forced out of MM by the Matshapiri and out of Londolozi by the Matimbas (12 months ago)
nevertheless they still pay some infrequent visits in those areas, but they are dominant in either of them Reply