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The Great Apes
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Just a side note about the post of @Spalea (an impresive picture, by the way), but not related to the picture but to the myth of Kronos.
Many people have the idea that Kronos devored his sons like in the paint of Goya, eating them part by part, but that is not the case. Kronos swallow them completelly, and they continue growing in his stomach until Zeus release them, so no mutilation. Now, let's continue with the topic. 
 (02-11-2020, 11:21 PM)GuateGojira Wrote: Just a side note about the post of @Spalea (an impresive picture, by the way), but not related to the picture but to the myth of Kronos.@GuateGojira Have you seen my reply to you right before Spalea's post? If so I hope it made things clearer.  (02-11-2020, 11:21 PM)GuateGojira Wrote: Just a side note about the post of @Spalea (an impresive picture, by the way), but not related to the picture but to the myth of Kronos. As concerns your knowledges about the mythology, I just say one word: great ! 
Humanity from an ape: An orangutan reaches out to a guard (from the Borneo Orangutan Survival Foundation) in a snake-infested river, but the guard refuses, with the excuse that since it's a wild animal, he doesn't know what it would do: https://edition.cnn.com/2020/02/07/asia/...index.html, https://www.mnn.com/earth-matters/animal...man-snakes, https://www.thejakartapost.com/life/2020...o-man.html
Silverback mountain gorilla in the chilly misty forest.
 *This image is copyright of its original author
 (02-14-2020, 05:40 PM)johnny rex Wrote:It's a Virunga male, from the DRC and Rwanda type. They tend to have thicker fur than their Bwindi cousins, due to colder temperatures at even higher altitudes. They also tend to have thick fur on their eyebrows, which Bwindi mountain gorillas seem to lack on average. Virunga mountain gorillas are typically around 8500 to 10000 ft in altitude, but they've been known to roam the very cold and frosty alpine tundras at 13000 to 14000 ft. It can also snow at anytime of the year in the alpine tundra, so it's pretty harsh up there. Bwindi gorillas tend to be around 6000 ft and probably max at around 8000 ft. So that explains why Virunga gorillas are even shaggier than their close relatives in Bwindi Uganda.(02-14-2020, 05:25 PM)The Panther Wrote: Silverback mountain gorilla in the chilly misty forest. (02-14-2020, 09:41 PM)The Panther Wrote:(02-14-2020, 05:40 PM)johnny rex Wrote:It's a Virunga male, from the DRC and Rwanda type. They tend to have thicker fur than their Bwindi cousins, due to colder temperatures at even higher altitudes. They also tend to have thick fur on their eyebrows, which Bwindi mountain gorillas seem to lack on average. Virunga mountain gorillas are typically around 8500 to 10000 ft in altitude, but they've been known to roam the very cold and frosty alpine tundras at 13000 to 14000 ft. It can also snow at anytime of the year in the alpine tundra, so it's pretty harsh up there. Bwindi gorillas tend to be around 6000 ft and probably max at around 8000 ft. So that explains why Virunga gorillas are even shaggier than their close relatives in Bwindi Uganda.(02-14-2020, 05:25 PM)The Panther Wrote: Silverback mountain gorilla in the chilly misty forest. This one is in the open grassland, where lions would be present: Credit: Innocent Mburanumwe  *This image is copyright of its original author Static Panoramio:  *This image is copyright of its original author
(02-14-2020, 10:05 PM)BorneanTiger Wrote:Actually, that mountain gorilla is near a human settlement, which is close to his forest home, so it's not in a wild open grassland. Virunga Mountain gorillas live exclusively in the high Virunga mountains at 8500 ft to 14000 ft, where lions have never lived. Though lions do live within the Virunga National Park, they're still far away from gorillas and live in the warm savanna at lower altitudes. Virunga mountain gorilla habitat is mostly cold, damp forests to the freezing alpine tundra, where it occasionally snows.(02-14-2020, 09:41 PM)The Panther Wrote:(02-14-2020, 05:40 PM)johnny rex Wrote:It's a Virunga male, from the DRC and Rwanda type. They tend to have thicker fur than their Bwindi cousins, due to colder temperatures at even higher altitudes. They also tend to have thick fur on their eyebrows, which Bwindi mountain gorillas seem to lack on average. Virunga mountain gorillas are typically around 8500 to 10000 ft in altitude, but they've been known to roam the very cold and frosty alpine tundras at 13000 to 14000 ft. It can also snow at anytime of the year in the alpine tundra, so it's pretty harsh up there. Bwindi gorillas tend to be around 6000 ft and probably max at around 8000 ft. So that explains why Virunga gorillas are even shaggier than their close relatives in Bwindi Uganda.(02-14-2020, 05:25 PM)The Panther Wrote: Silverback mountain gorilla in the chilly misty forest. I do find it interesting how lions would look in mountain gorilla climate. They would likely have thick fur and huge manes due to adaptation to a colder environment, especially a cold and wet environment like this. (02-15-2020, 08:31 PM)The Panther Wrote:(02-14-2020, 10:05 PM)BorneanTiger Wrote:Actually, that mountain gorilla is near a human settlement, which is close to his forest home, so it's not in a wild open grassland. Virunga Mountain gorillas live exclusively in the high Virunga mountains at 8500 ft to 14000 ft, where lions have never lived. Though lions do live within the Virunga National Park, they're still far away from gorillas and live in the warm savanna at low altitudes, not the high mountains where it's mostly cold, damp forests and alpine tundra.(02-14-2020, 09:41 PM)The Panther Wrote:(02-14-2020, 05:40 PM)johnny rex Wrote:It's a Virunga male, from the DRC and Rwanda type. They tend to have thicker fur than their Bwindi cousins, due to colder temperatures at even higher altitudes. They also tend to have thick fur on their eyebrows, which Bwindi mountain gorillas seem to lack on average. Virunga mountain gorillas are typically around 8500 to 10000 ft in altitude, but they've been known to roam the very cold and frosty alpine tundras at 13000 to 14000 ft. It can also snow at anytime of the year in the alpine tundra, so it's pretty harsh up there. Bwindi gorillas tend to be around 6000 ft and probably max at around 8000 ft. So that explains why Virunga gorillas are even shaggier than their close relatives in Bwindi Uganda.(02-14-2020, 05:25 PM)The Panther Wrote: Silverback mountain gorilla in the chilly misty forest. It can be seen in zoos, which are located in northern countries. They tend to have, just like you think, big manes. This was Mohan in Korkeasaari zoo, Asiatic lion, trying to find one looking like him in India might be challenging....  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author
Munyinya showing his impressive beard.
 *This image is copyright of its original author
I found lately one interesting book with a good description showing how easily nonsense can start to spread and easy to see how it could be soon "true story" in conversations, something like "safari guide told me and those guys for sure know what they talk about, they know the forests and animals...."
They for sure can know forests and a lot of animals, but... they can also talk a lot of nonsense. And still they can be professional guides. I put here two photos from screenshots. This is about gorillas and lions. There are some imaginary stories concerning gorillas and big cats, with descriptions from fairy tales, not from this world. When reading this text it´s easy to see how easily exciting stories can start to live just like in the past. Many hunters and animals trainers for sure knew a lot, but with more and more real information nowadays, we can see where they added some "extra" to things :) From: Last Chance to See, authors: Douglas Adams, Mark Carwadine (02-12-2020, 04:01 PM)Spalea Wrote: As concerns your knowledges about the mythology, I just say one word: great ! Thanks! Actually I love the Mythology but more about the Greeks, specially because I am a fan of Saint Seiya! So yes, I read a lot of those stories and also from other cultures and countries. (02-12-2020, 02:16 PM)The Panther Wrote: Have you seen my reply to you right before Spalea's post? If so I hope it made things clearer. Yes I saw it, and no they are not clear. I am not convinced at all about the size of those male gorillas. If there is something that I have learn is that we need solid evidence to state things and in this moment there is no evidence of the size and weight of those male gorillas. An "eye" estimation is not valid at all, I have saw it so many times in great cats that I can apply the same situation to these great apes. Until someone can actually weight those animals and prove that those gorillas are at least over 230 kg, the figure of 180-190 kg on average and up to 219 kg from the wild is still valid, anything else is speculation. (02-17-2020, 09:20 PM)GuateGojira Wrote:@GuateGojira this is quite a long read, so forgive me.(02-12-2020, 02:16 PM)The Panther Wrote: Have you seen my reply to you right before Spalea's post? If so I hope it made things clearer. I never once said my estimates were completely valid, I simply highlighted the potential weight range of the absolute biggest Eastern gorillas from the comparisons, so this has nothing to do with the average young males nor did I claim to know their exact weights either. Your opinion is based solely on a small sample, so why should it be unlikely for Eastern gorillas to surpass that? There is no definitive proof that 219 or 220 kg (482 or 485 lbs) is the absolute biggest attainable weight, it's only the biggest weight on a small sample, which is still impressive. So I know those weights are valid, but where's the proof that it ends there? How many exceptionally large males like Guhonda did they weigh? That's what I'm really interested in. In my comparisons with Guhonda specifically, I highlighted how similar in build he was to the 296 kg (652 lbs) Samson, so I estimated the absolute biggest males to possibly be within 45 kg (100 lbs) of Samson's weight, which is still a substantial difference. I could've easily looked at their similarities and claim they were only 5 to10 kg in difference (11 to 22 lbs), but I knew that was unrealistic and acknowledged that Samson was still substantially flabbier despite their similar body type. Other than the biggest captive males like Samson, I also compared with a male who's said to weigh 190 kg (418 lbs) called Shabani, and I noticed how males like Guhonda were significantly bulkier than him despite his size. We could talk about belly gas all day, but gas only adds some bloating, so the majority of that great bulk is most likely their natural size, unless there's scientific proof otherwise. I estimated that silverback Eastern gorillas could possibly gain up to 100 kg (220 lbs) of weight from the age of 13 to 35+ (over 22 years), which makes a lot of sense when you think of their mostly relaxed and relatively sedentary lifestyle, where they spend hours foraging all day. Males are said to eat up to 34 kg (75 lbs) of vegetation daily, so wouldn't it make sense for them to gain significant amounts of weight after 20+ years of this habit? Like I said before, there are gluttonous humans that can gain more than 100 kg in less than 10 years, other large herbivores can gain more than that in a short amount of time too. So why should it be impossible for the very well fed Eastern gorillas to gain up to 100 kg in over 20 years? This is a long time, so unless there's a scientific reason as to why it can't happen, then I don't see why we should completely dismiss these possibilities, which is my main point. |
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