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Mountain gorilla census reveals further increase in numbers John C. Cannon 1 day ago
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
The outlook for eastern Africa’s mountain gorillas is growing brighter, as a recent census released on Dec. 16 shows that the subspecies’ numbers have risen since 2011. Scientists believe there are now at least 1,063 mountain gorillas living in the wild.
Tara Stoinski, the CEO and chief scientific officer of the Dian Fossey Gorilla Fund, said the results of the latest census were “incredible, given what’s happening to other wildlife populations, and given the high level of threats that they face.”
“It’s a real testament to the level of conservation action that’s happening for these populations,” Stoinski told Mongabay.
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
A team participates in a training for the census. Image by Winnie Eckardt/Dian Fossey Gorilla Fund.
In the 1980s, the known population of mountain gorillas (Gorilla beringei beringei) in the Virunga Mountains had dwindled to just 240 individuals, as lost habitat, hunting, disease and other threats had exacted a costly toll. By late 2018, though, more than three decades of “extreme conservation” involving the day-to-day protection of gorilla families appeared to be having an impact: A 2016 survey of the gorillas living in the Virungas revealed an increase to 604 animals.
At the time, scientists pegged the total number of individuals at more than 1,000, and the IUCN changed the ape’s status on the Red List from critically endangered to endangered.
But a census of the other mountain gorilla population, found further north in the Bwindi-Sarambwe ecosystem, hadn’t taken place since 2011, when researchers figured it held 400 gorillas.
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
A silverback mountain gorilla in Uganda. Image by Skyler Bishop/Gorilla Doctors.
The 2018 census of the Bwindi-Sarambwe population, which straddles the border between Uganda and the Democratic Republic of Congo, found evidence of at least 459 individuals. The 2011 census covered only Uganda’s gorillas. In 2018, however, improved local security allowed teams to include DRC’s Sarambwe Nature Reserve as well.
Mountain gorillas live in three different countries — Uganda, DRC and Rwanda. And the Virunga and Bwindi-Sarambwe populations aren’t connected to each other: Though just 50 kilometers (31 miles) separates the edges of the two ranges, the landscape between them no longer has forest that can support gorillas. The researchers and trackers involved in the census say that the disconnected populations and their transboundary ranges have made cooperation vital to both the protection of the animals and to monitoring efforts.
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
An infant mountain gorilla in Bwindi Impenetrable National Park, Uganda. Image courtesy of Gorilla Doctors.
The recent census was “a great example of collaboration between governments, conservation organizations like the Fossey Fund and local communities,” Felix Ndagijimana, who directs the Fossey Fund’s Rwanda programs and the Karisoke Research Center, said in a statement.
In addition to the DRC and Uganda governmental wildlife agencies, the effort, under the Greater Virunga Transboundary Collaboration, included support and funding from more than a dozen conservation NGOs and institutions as well as local communities.
To carry out the census, survey teams walked “reconnaissance” trails, scouring the ground for fecal samples in a “two-sweep” method — one between March and May 2018, and then again between October and December 2018.
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
Veterinarian Fred Nizeyimana performs an emergency snare removal from adult female mountain gorilla in Bwindi Impenetrable National Park, Uganda. Image courtesy of Gorilla Doctors.
Tromping through the gorilla’s habitat is not easy work, Stoinksi said. “It’s called the Bwindi impenetrable forest for a reason.”
“The census work is a tough job — physically demanding, with 12 hours each day of walking through the forest, crossing big ravines and climbing mountains,” Prosper Kaberabose, a Fossey Fund tracker, said in a statement. But by participating in the training before the survey, as well as the census itself, members of the team picked up valuable and marketable skills, Kaberabose said.
The fecal samples — about 2,000 of them — were then sent to the Veterinary Genetics Laboratory at the University of California, Davis. Analyses conducted there identified 459 individual gorillas.
“Given ongoing risks to mountain gorillas such as habitat encroachment, potential disease transmission, poaching and civil unrest, this increase should serve as both a celebration and a clarion call to all government, NGO and institutional partners to continue to collaborate in our work to ensure the survival of mountain gorillas,” Kirsten Gilardi, executive director of the Gorilla Doctors and a veterinarian at UC Davis, said in a statement.
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
An infant mountain gorilla standing on its mother’s back in Bwindi Impenetrable National Park, Uganda. Image courtesy of Gorilla Doctors.
The teams also noted signs of other animals, including chimpanzees and elephants. Though these mammal populations weren’t the focus of the study, they appear to be holding steady, in contrast to declines elsewhere.
It may be that the conservation efforts to protect gorillas are also helping to keep other species safe, Stoinski said.
But despite the success of the “extreme conservation” that’s gone into bringing mountain gorillas back from the edge of extinction, Stoinski echoed Gilardi’s call for continued action. Mountain gorillas are still “conservation-dependent,” she said.
“The really exciting news is that they’re increasing,” Stoinski said. “The other side of that is they still face a lot of challenges.”
(12-15-2019, 03:52 PM)Shadow Wrote: Yes, that photo is typical example how some animal can be made to look like much bigger than it is in reality. When people keep in mind, that gorillas are in average around 170 cm tall when standing, it´s easy to notice when something is not right in the photo. But of course, when a woman stands 5-20 meters behind a sitting gorilla, gorilla looks like to be huge. Put there an average male brown bear next to that gorilla and suddenly that "huge" gorilla looks like a child :)
@Shadow @Sully
The silverback in question Isabukuru was actually a pretty big male, in fact, people have mentioned his exceptional size for his young age. He unfortunately died at only 24 years old.
This is him from a different angle. He was 22 years old here.
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
https://gorillasafarisinuganda.blogspot.com/2017/04/a-tribute-to-silverback-isabukuru.html?mhim.
"Even as a young black back, he was famous because of his gigantic size despite his tender age and very popular among females which he broke away with from Cantsbee's group in 2007, and started his own group at just the age of 14 taking three females with him."
Last paragraph in the link.
It can be big what comes to gorillas, but that photo didn´t give realistic perspective. Typical photo exaggerating size of an animal. As I said, if there would be a brown bear right next to that gorilla, it would look more like child looks like right next to adult. 160-200 kg isn´t same as 300-400 kg. Just like some 50-60 kg woman 5-10 meters behind a silverback gorilla looks to be even smaller than she is. That was my point, not to say if that gorilla was small of big gorilla, when compared to other gorillas.
Yes, but no one even mentioned big 400 kg bears at all, it's a fact that he was a huge gorilla, and it's accepted by everyone who observed him throughout the years. No one here thinks 160-200 kg is the same as 300 kg or 400 kg, though I'm pretty sure he was a lot larger than 200 kg. Maybe the example Spalea used didn't do Justice to Isabukuru's great size, sure, but I just wanted to mention that he was indeed considered a very large male, especially for his age.
No, but it was for most people a random photo of a random gorilla and said, that huge gorilla. From that photo it wasn´t possible to know if that gorilla was average, big or huge. I pointed that out and also used bears as one example to remind what is reality. Many times silverback gorillas are in photos alone or with another gorilla(s). And they look massive. Of course an animal 160-200 kg is big. What comes to possible 250 kg gorillas, I do believe that some of the biggest ones can be when old and obese, but I don´t believe that it would be something we see in every photo. Even gorillas over 200 kg are usually considered as very big or exceptional individuals. There aren´t too many confirmed gorillas over 200 kg after all.
In many threads here have been said many times, from a random photo without anything good to compare with, it´s impossible to say how big some animal is. Any average gorilla can be made to look like a giant if that is wanted by the person taking photo. If it´s wanted to prove that some animal is really big or exceptional with a photo, then that photo should have something side by side with that animal. So many "huge" animals have been in reality normal sized, when more information have been found. We have had here many similar cases with photos of big cats.
I want to point out, that when some gorilla looks like huge, reality is with silverbacks 160-200 kg. And maybe in some rare cases more. And height in average, when standing somewhere around 170 cm, so a sitting gorilla isn´t taller than a woman standing. People who know animals and are objective of course know this, but there are always some people, who can be fooled. So it´s good to keep things realistic.
We've pretty much went over this before. There isn't enough information on all the populations of wild gorillas to conclude anything, but it's quite clear they vary greatly in size (mainly weight) depending on which population you look at. Eastern gorillas can greatly surpass Western gorillas in size, so 200 kg might be very large for your average Western gorilla population, but what says it's the same thing for Eastern gorillas? This is why I rely on comparisons like the ones I did before, because it at least gives me a good idea of a large gorilla's size range, which is very helpful when we have nothing to go on. So this is how I estimate, with comparisons. I think it's very dismissive to say anything over 200kg is rare, especially when there isn't enough information to go on, apart from small samples and measurements here and there. Who's to say that represents all populations.
I just say how I see it. I haven´t seen enough information to believe, that 200 kg would be something what gorillas would be all the time. I have seen only some possible cases in wild and that isn´t enough for me to make hasty conclusions, that it would happen all the time. If you believe that 200 kg is like nothing for gorillas, then we do disagree clearly.
It´s one thing to speculate and talk about possibilities, another to talk about confirmed and verified information. Multiple sources give for gorillas weight range 160-200 kg, when talking about males. Of course if you have some study giving different kind of figures, please post it here. New information is always welcome.
And when looking at main point in this. From photos we can´t give too good estimations, when there is nothing to compare with. Of course we can see if gorilla looks robust or obese and things like that. But when looking at photo of one gorilla, which is for instance known to be big and then looking a photo of another gorilla looking to be as big... it has to be remembered, that other one can be for instance shorter and much lighter in reality. And that height difference makes it look like to be as robust and big in photo. Photos are not good if wanting to prove something about size, when there is not something to compare with, which is there side by side.
I never stated 200 kg was nothing, though I do believe weights well over 200 kg are far more likely to occur in the Eastern populations than in Western populations. None of those sources mention how many individuals were measured in each and every population, nor do they mention the ages of the individuals in question. My problem is that they're not substantial enough to conclude anything, and they're hardly ever specific. To me it doesn't seem logical to limit the sizes of Eastern gorillas to just 200 kg max, especially considering how well fed and settled they are throughout their lives. For decades a silverback Eastern gorilla will consume huge quantities of vegetation daily, his life is generally relaxed and sedentary, which should definitely pile on the lbs, unless you believe Eastern males magically stay well under 200 kg for 20-30 years of their adult lives.
In my comparisons, I used gorillas that have been weighed, so it's a lot easier to estimate, I also made sure to use images of them in similar positions so it can help give you perspective. The gorillas I used were 602 lbs M'bongo (273 kg) and 652 lbs Samson (296 kg), so I wasn't using random gorillas in my comparisons. From there I estimated a size difference of 50 to less than 30 lbs (22 to 14 kg) between M'bongo and the largest wild males and 100 to less than 80 lbs with Samson (45 to 36 kg), so I was able to safely put them within a size range due to these comparisons, and i'm pretty satisfied with them. You can check them out if you want.
I have seen speculations here. I have speculated myself and I keep it possible, that some exceptional and somewhat obese gorillas can be even around 250 kg. But since experts say, that eastern populations can weight up to 220 kg and usually weight range in average has been said to be approximately 160-200 kg, I don´t see yet any reason to believe otherwise. Of course you and others can speculate, that´s ok. @Sully pointed out what was wrong in that one photo which was shared with words about huge gorilla. I replied to it because photos like that can fool some people, especially kids. Good to remind time to time, if a lot of speculation, that what experts say and in what way photos can exaggerate sizes.
Photos alone to use in comparisons, when different gorillas are in different places are very problematic for the reasons I already mentioned. That topic has been discussed, as said, countless times in different threads. How many 300 kg tigers and lions people have seen in photos during years... and then found out, that 220-250 kg in reality, it´s good to remember before seeing 250 kg gorillas here and there all the time. But here is no problem as long as speculations are clearly speculations and not trying to claim, that talking about confirmed facts, when speculating.
Sorry for the late response, but I needed some sleep.
OK, we're literally going in circles here. Like I said before, all I need is substantial evidence to show me how many gorillas were measured in each and every population, I also need the ages of the individuals in question for me to buy into a range of only 160-200 kg. I need more than just expert words, I need extensive evidence, otherwise we're just beating a dead horse with this conversation. My comparisons show me the size range of the biggest wild males due to how similar in build they are to the heaviest captive gorillas, and it makes sense, because 20-30 years as adults consuming large quantities of vegetation and living relatively sedentary lives, should be enough to make them similar to the biggest of captive gorillas, which should put them well above 200 kg in maximum sizes. To me limiting their size to a range of only 41 kg (160 to 200 kg) makes no sense, unless you believe they magically stay within that range after decades of living such a lifestyle.
Mountain gorillas unlike big cats don't starve (unless sick), they don't need to be successful to eat when their food is literally all around them. I can understand limiting lions within a 200 kg or less range because their lifestyle makes it almost impossible to be very well fed all the time, after all they need to hunt. Them being well fed requires constant success, and most of them are hardly that successful, hence why it limits their size. So again, mountain gorillas don't have this problem, so why are we even limiting them the same way we should limit a lion? Because it simply doesn't apply to them at all.
I understand you like to favor the words of experts, but I've seen experts claim lions casually weigh up to 250 kg, or Amur tigers routinely being 13 feet long even though they're pretty much the same length as Bengal tigers. This is why I want substantial evidence so it can prove these claims, not just what anyone said, unless it's someone who measured a bunch of gorillas from each and every population, and also got their ages too. So I get what you're saying, you're only going by what's out there, but I need more than just what experts say, especially when they don't show substantial evidence when they say it. Sorry for the long comment.
I don´t know which experts say, that lions would weigh up to 250 kg casually or that Amur tigers would be routinely 13 feet long. But I haven´t seen any gorilla experts to say, that gorillas would be up to 250 kg, even though I think, that some rare individuals might be that big.
I just reminded about confirmed facts and what experts say when looking at speculations. And about it, that photos are very unreliable to use when estimating weights, especially when there is nothing to compare with some individual. That has been seen so many times, that people make big mistakes and often exaggerate sizes and weights. My opinion is, that with gorillas that is very easy to happen too. Gorillas are robust, but often quite short. When we imagine a man 170 cm tall and 150 kg, he could be made look like a giant in a photo, easily. Just the same thing with a gorilla or any animal. There are photos taken from hunted wolves in which they look like 200-250 kg giants, same time we all know, that 70-80 kg wolf is huge already.
But as I have said, you are free to speculate and give reasoning why you estimate some gorillas to be very heavy. But since this is, as lately mentioned time to time, forum named wildfact, criticism is present here too. Now it was first about one photo, but since you wanted to discuss more, I mentioned some remarks I have made. I tend to be careful when discussions start to mention record breaking numbers, but there is not enough proof.
No need to go circles, people have seen what you write and what I write. Everyone can check studies for instance from researchgate and check other sources etc.
(12-17-2019, 06:09 PM)The Panther Wrote: @Shadow @Sully
The silverback in question Isabukuru was actually a pretty big male, in fact, people have mentioned his exceptional size for his young age. He unfortunately died at only 24 years old.
This is him from a different angle. He was 22 years old here.
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
https://gorillasafarisinuganda.blogspot.com/2017/04/a-tribute-to-silverback-isabukuru.html?mhim.
"Even as a young black back, he was famous because of his gigantic size despite his tender age and very popular among females which he broke away with from Cantsbee's group in 2007, and started his own group at just the age of 14 taking three females with him."
Last paragraph in the link.
It can be big what comes to gorillas, but that photo didn´t give realistic perspective. Typical photo exaggerating size of an animal. As I said, if there would be a brown bear right next to that gorilla, it would look more like child looks like right next to adult. 160-200 kg isn´t same as 300-400 kg. Just like some 50-60 kg woman 5-10 meters behind a silverback gorilla looks to be even smaller than she is. That was my point, not to say if that gorilla was small of big gorilla, when compared to other gorillas.
Yes, but no one even mentioned big 400 kg bears at all, it's a fact that he was a huge gorilla, and it's accepted by everyone who observed him throughout the years. No one here thinks 160-200 kg is the same as 300 kg or 400 kg, though I'm pretty sure he was a lot larger than 200 kg. Maybe the example Spalea used didn't do Justice to Isabukuru's great size, sure, but I just wanted to mention that he was indeed considered a very large male, especially for his age.
No, but it was for most people a random photo of a random gorilla and said, that huge gorilla. From that photo it wasn´t possible to know if that gorilla was average, big or huge. I pointed that out and also used bears as one example to remind what is reality. Many times silverback gorillas are in photos alone or with another gorilla(s). And they look massive. Of course an animal 160-200 kg is big. What comes to possible 250 kg gorillas, I do believe that some of the biggest ones can be when old and obese, but I don´t believe that it would be something we see in every photo. Even gorillas over 200 kg are usually considered as very big or exceptional individuals. There aren´t too many confirmed gorillas over 200 kg after all.
In many threads here have been said many times, from a random photo without anything good to compare with, it´s impossible to say how big some animal is. Any average gorilla can be made to look like a giant if that is wanted by the person taking photo. If it´s wanted to prove that some animal is really big or exceptional with a photo, then that photo should have something side by side with that animal. So many "huge" animals have been in reality normal sized, when more information have been found. We have had here many similar cases with photos of big cats.
I want to point out, that when some gorilla looks like huge, reality is with silverbacks 160-200 kg. And maybe in some rare cases more. And height in average, when standing somewhere around 170 cm, so a sitting gorilla isn´t taller than a woman standing. People who know animals and are objective of course know this, but there are always some people, who can be fooled. So it´s good to keep things realistic.
We've pretty much went over this before. There isn't enough information on all the populations of wild gorillas to conclude anything, but it's quite clear they vary greatly in size (mainly weight) depending on which population you look at. Eastern gorillas can greatly surpass Western gorillas in size, so 200 kg might be very large for your average Western gorilla population, but what says it's the same thing for Eastern gorillas? This is why I rely on comparisons like the ones I did before, because it at least gives me a good idea of a large gorilla's size range, which is very helpful when we have nothing to go on. So this is how I estimate, with comparisons. I think it's very dismissive to say anything over 200kg is rare, especially when there isn't enough information to go on, apart from small samples and measurements here and there. Who's to say that represents all populations.
I just say how I see it. I haven´t seen enough information to believe, that 200 kg would be something what gorillas would be all the time. I have seen only some possible cases in wild and that isn´t enough for me to make hasty conclusions, that it would happen all the time. If you believe that 200 kg is like nothing for gorillas, then we do disagree clearly.
It´s one thing to speculate and talk about possibilities, another to talk about confirmed and verified information. Multiple sources give for gorillas weight range 160-200 kg, when talking about males. Of course if you have some study giving different kind of figures, please post it here. New information is always welcome.
And when looking at main point in this. From photos we can´t give too good estimations, when there is nothing to compare with. Of course we can see if gorilla looks robust or obese and things like that. But when looking at photo of one gorilla, which is for instance known to be big and then looking a photo of another gorilla looking to be as big... it has to be remembered, that other one can be for instance shorter and much lighter in reality. And that height difference makes it look like to be as robust and big in photo. Photos are not good if wanting to prove something about size, when there is not something to compare with, which is there side by side.
I never stated 200 kg was nothing, though I do believe weights well over 200 kg are far more likely to occur in the Eastern populations than in Western populations. None of those sources mention how many individuals were measured in each and every population, nor do they mention the ages of the individuals in question. My problem is that they're not substantial enough to conclude anything, and they're hardly ever specific. To me it doesn't seem logical to limit the sizes of Eastern gorillas to just 200 kg max, especially considering how well fed and settled they are throughout their lives. For decades a silverback Eastern gorilla will consume huge quantities of vegetation daily, his life is generally relaxed and sedentary, which should definitely pile on the lbs, unless you believe Eastern males magically stay well under 200 kg for 20-30 years of their adult lives.
In my comparisons, I used gorillas that have been weighed, so it's a lot easier to estimate, I also made sure to use images of them in similar positions so it can help give you perspective. The gorillas I used were 602 lbs M'bongo (273 kg) and 652 lbs Samson (296 kg), so I wasn't using random gorillas in my comparisons. From there I estimated a size difference of 50 to less than 30 lbs (22 to 14 kg) between M'bongo and the largest wild males and 100 to less than 80 lbs with Samson (45 to 36 kg), so I was able to safely put them within a size range due to these comparisons, and i'm pretty satisfied with them. You can check them out if you want.
I have seen speculations here. I have speculated myself and I keep it possible, that some exceptional and somewhat obese gorillas can be even around 250 kg. But since experts say, that eastern populations can weight up to 220 kg and usually weight range in average has been said to be approximately 160-200 kg, I don´t see yet any reason to believe otherwise. Of course you and others can speculate, that´s ok. @Sully pointed out what was wrong in that one photo which was shared with words about huge gorilla. I replied to it because photos like that can fool some people, especially kids. Good to remind time to time, if a lot of speculation, that what experts say and in what way photos can exaggerate sizes.
Photos alone to use in comparisons, when different gorillas are in different places are very problematic for the reasons I already mentioned. That topic has been discussed, as said, countless times in different threads. How many 300 kg tigers and lions people have seen in photos during years... and then found out, that 220-250 kg in reality, it´s good to remember before seeing 250 kg gorillas here and there all the time. But here is no problem as long as speculations are clearly speculations and not trying to claim, that talking about confirmed facts, when speculating.
Sorry for the late response, but I needed some sleep.
OK, we're literally going in circles here. Like I said before, all I need is substantial evidence to show me how many gorillas were measured in each and every population, I also need the ages of the individuals in question for me to buy into a range of only 160-200 kg. I need more than just expert words, I need extensive evidence, otherwise we're just beating a dead horse with this conversation. My comparisons show me the size range of the biggest wild males due to how similar in build they are to the heaviest captive gorillas, and it makes sense, because 20-30 years as adults consuming large quantities of vegetation and living relatively sedentary lives, should be enough to make them similar to the biggest of captive gorillas, which should put them well above 200 kg in maximum sizes. To me limiting their size to a range of only 41 kg (160 to 200 kg) makes no sense, unless you believe they magically stay within that range after decades of living such a lifestyle.
Mountain gorillas unlike big cats don't starve (unless sick), they don't need to be successful to eat when their food is literally all around them. I can understand limiting lions within a 200 kg or less range because their lifestyle makes it almost impossible to be very well fed all the time, after all they need to hunt. Them being well fed requires constant success, and most of them are hardly that successful, hence why it limits their size. So again, mountain gorillas don't have this problem, so why are we even limiting them the same way we should limit a lion? Because it simply doesn't apply to them at all.
I understand you like to favor the words of experts, but I've seen experts claim lions casually weigh up to 250 kg, or Amur tigers routinely being 13 feet long even though they're pretty much the same length as Bengal tigers. This is why I want substantial evidence so it can prove these claims, not just what anyone said, unless it's someone who measured a bunch of gorillas from each and every population, and also got their ages too. So I get what you're saying, you're only going by what's out there, but I need more than just what experts say, especially when they don't show substantial evidence when they say it. Sorry for the long comment.
I don´t know which experts say, that lions would weigh up to 250 kg casually or that Amur tigers would be routinely 13 feet long. But I haven´t seen any gorilla experts to say, that gorillas would be up to 250 kg, even though I think, that some rare individuals might be that big.
I just reminded about confirmed facts and what experts say when looking at speculations. And about it, that photos are very unreliable to use when estimating weights, especially when there is nothing to compare with some individual. That has been seen so many times, that people make big mistakes and often exaggerate sizes and weights. My opinion is, that with gorillas that is very easy to happen too. Gorillas are robust, but often quite short. When we imagine a man 170 cm tall and 150 kg, he could be made look like a giant in a photo, easily. Just the same thing with a gorilla or any animal. There are photos taken from hunted wolves in which they look like 200-250 kg giants, same time we all know, that 70-80 kg wolf is huge already.
But as I have said, you are free to speculate and give reasoning why you estimate some gorillas to be very heavy. But since this is, as lately mentioned time to time, forum named wildfact, criticism is present here too. Now it was first about one photo, but since you wanted to discuss more, I mentioned some remarks I have made. I tend to be careful when discussions start to mention record breaking numbers, but there is not enough proof.
No need to go circles, people have seen what you write and what I write. Everyone can check studies for instance from researchgate and check other sources etc.
I understand what you're saying, that's why I was careful with my comparisons and estimations. Those rare over 250 kg individuals would mainly be old silverbacks, though there are some potential young ones too, like Isabukuru for example, he was built more like the big old males than a typical male his age. So males like Isabukuru are definitely exceptional young silverbacks to say the least. I understand that people make mistakes when scaling, but trust me, I did try to be extra careful when doing this, because I don't like far fetched estimates either.
The massive Kahungye silverback in Bwindi impenetrable national park, Uganda.
*This image is copyright of its original author
This is a different type of mountain gorilla from the ones we usually post here. This is the Bwindi mountain gorillas, the ones we normally see are the Virunga mountain gorillas.
(12-19-2019, 05:23 PM)The Panther Wrote: The massive Kahungye silverback in Bwindi impenetrable national park, Uganda.
*This image is copyright of its original author
This is a different type of mountain gorilla from the ones we usually post here. This is the Bwindi mountain gorillas, the ones we normally see are the Virunga mountain gorillas.
Ugandan gorillas somehow look closer to eastern lowland gorillas.
Nelis Wolmarans:" This giant of a Mountain Gorilla Silverback is still leading the Kwitonda Family and his strong leadership skills has seen this family grow to an amazing 44 members. Meet dominant Silverback, Akarevuro... "
12-23-2019, 04:00 PM( This post was last modified: 12-23-2019, 10:24 PM by The Panther )
Big Chimanuka showing his huge fingers while eating.
*This image is copyright of its original author
A silverback's hands almost remind me of something fictional, like an orc or an ogre for example, even their features and body type reminds me of those fictional creatures.
12-26-2019, 09:12 PM( This post was last modified: 12-26-2019, 09:13 PM by The Panther )
(12-19-2019, 06:47 PM)johnny rex Wrote:
(12-19-2019, 05:23 PM)The Panther Wrote: The massive Kahungye silverback in Bwindi impenetrable national park, Uganda.
*This image is copyright of its original author
This is a different type of mountain gorilla from the ones we usually post here. This is the Bwindi mountain gorillas, the ones we normally see are the Virunga mountain gorillas.
Ugandan gorillas somehow look closer to eastern lowland gorillas.
Kingo the Western lowland gorilla.
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
@johnny rex
It's funny how despite being over 40 years old, he's nowhere near as big as the old Eastern gorillas we've seen, even young males look larger. This seems to prove our point that Eastern gorillas greatly surpass Western gorillas, even at similar age groups they still surpass them.
(12-19-2019, 05:23 PM)The Panther Wrote: The massive Kahungye silverback in Bwindi impenetrable national park, Uganda.
*This image is copyright of its original author
This is a different type of mountain gorilla from the ones we usually post here. This is the Bwindi mountain gorillas, the ones we normally see are the Virunga mountain gorillas.
Ugandan gorillas somehow look closer to eastern lowland gorillas.
Kingo the Western lowland gorilla.
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
@johnny rex
It's funny how despite being over 40 years old, he's nowhere near as big as the old Eastern gorillas we've seen, even young males look larger. This seems to prove our point that Eastern gorillas greatly surpass Western gorillas, even at similar age groups they still surpass them.
I always thought of Western gorillas having much more gracile build compared to the Eastern gorillas.
(12-19-2019, 05:23 PM)The Panther Wrote: The massive Kahungye silverback in Bwindi impenetrable national park, Uganda.
*This image is copyright of its original author
This is a different type of mountain gorilla from the ones we usually post here. This is the Bwindi mountain gorillas, the ones we normally see are the Virunga mountain gorillas.
Ugandan gorillas somehow look closer to eastern lowland gorillas.
Kingo the Western lowland gorilla.
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
@johnny rex
It's funny how despite being over 40 years old, he's nowhere near as big as the old Eastern gorillas we've seen, even young males look larger. This seems to prove our point that Eastern gorillas greatly surpass Western gorillas, even at similar age groups they still surpass them.
I always thought of Western gorillas having much more gracile build compared to the Eastern gorillas.
Indeed, even the young Isabukuru male dwarfs 40 year old Kingo, despite only being in his early 20's. Imagine how big Isabukuru would've gotten if he lived longer, he would likely be up there with Guhonda, maybe even surpass Guhonda if lucky.
Research on captive and wild great apes has established that they employ large repertoires of intentional gestural signals to achieve desired goals. However, gestural research has focused on African great apes, with orang-utan data limited to a few captive studies. We address this gap by describing gesture use in wild Southwest Bornean orang-utan (Pongo pygmaeus wurmbii) mother and offspring pairs. We conducted focal follows on 16 individuals in the Sabangau peat-swamp forest in Borneo, Indonesia. The resulting 681 h of video footage yielded 1299 communicative signals: 858 vocal signals and 441 gestural signals. Eleven vocal signal types and 21 gesture types met the criteria for inclusion in the repertoire; however, the gestural repertoire did not approach asymptote and further gesture types will likely be identified in the future. Signalers used gestures of any modality in higher frequency when the recipient was paying visual attention, and took the recipient’s visual attention into account when selecting gesture modalities. Orang-utans employed hands and arms more than legs and feet in gesturing, but were more flexible in their choice of limb than chimpanzees using the same gestures. Orang-utans were highly responsive to gestural requests, using them to achieve eight goals and, where successful, responding either before gesturing ended or in <1 s in 90% of communications. Our findings on the range of gesture types and impact of visual attention support findings from captive orang-utans; and those on responsiveness and limb use highlight the importance of studying ape communication in the social and ecological context to which it is adapted.
