There is a world somewhere between reality and fiction. Although ignored by many, it is very real and so are those living in it. This forum is about the natural world. Here, wild animals will be heard and respected. The forum offers a glimpse into an unknown world as well as a room with a view on the present and the future. Anyone able to speak on behalf of those living in the emerald forest and the deep blue sea is invited to join.
(11-01-2017, 09:20 PM)Rishi Wrote: This animal was shot somewhere in Northeastern Congo (then Zaire)..
*This image is copyright of its original author
Actually it was the Belgian Congo when that photo was taken in 1912. After independence from Belgium, the dictator Mobutu renamed it Zaire in the 1970s and then when he was overthrown in the late 90s the name was changed to the Democratic Republic of Congo. Mobutu (a brutal ruler) was brought into power by the Belgians with the help of the Americans - they conspired against Patrice Lumumba who was on his way to becoming the first leader of this newly independent country and probably would've gone on to be a good leader. But the Americans and their allies would rather have puppet rulers in these countries so they can basically just pay them off and take whatever resources they want. As a result the DR Congo has pretty much been a mess since, both for its people and its wildlife. This was probably one of the most spectacular game rich areas of Africa, right in the heart of the continent, but now its mostly poached out.
Anyway, that photo shows an adult male lion killed in a place called Vankerekhovenville in north eastern DRC (near Garamba NP). This lion measured 286cm in total length and 183cm in head and body length. Its skull measured 375mm in greatest length and 245mm in zygomatic breadth. So a big, good sized lion. Information as well as that photo are from the paper, "Carnivora collected by the American Museum Congo Expedition" 1924 by JA Allen.
The political history of Congo-Kinshasa is more complicated than that. Lumumba as Congolese PM faced a revolt from secessionists from Katanga Province (from where Einar Lönnberg described the Katanga lion or Southwest African lion Panthera leo bleyenberghi in 1914), so he appealed to the UN & USA for help, but they refused, and since he was a Communist, he then turned to the USA's arch-rival, the USSR (Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, or simply "Soviet Union", a now-defunct federation that included Russia, Kazakhstan, Georgia and Ukraine, and was founded on the Communist ideology), and this was opposed not just by the Americans and Belgians, but also then-chief-of-staff Mobutu and President Joseph Kasa-Vubu, and so Mobutu apparently conspired with the Katangans and Belgians to eliminate him, and even then, it's not as simple as that. Lumumba as the Communist PM did have his own failings, and after imposing a state of emergency, a journalist who criticised the government got arrested, and there was a rebellion in South Kasai that he ordered troops under Mobutu to put down, but that led to a massacre of civilians in Luba, from what I see.
I'm sure it was much more complicated than I could summarize in a single paragraph. But the point is the US and the Belgians backed the assassination of the first democratically elected leader of a newly independent DR Congo and backed a corrupt dictator to preserve their business interests. They did not let the people of the Congo have their freedom and choose their future. For this they should be condemned and held responsible (especially since the Americans have done this in numerous countries).
(11-01-2017, 09:20 PM)Rishi Wrote: This animal was shot somewhere in Northeastern Congo (then Zaire)..
*This image is copyright of its original author
Actually it was the Belgian Congo when that photo was taken in 1912. After independence from Belgium, the dictator Mobutu renamed it Zaire in the 1970s and then when he was overthrown in the late 90s the name was changed to the Democratic Republic of Congo. Mobutu (a brutal ruler) was brought into power by the Belgians with the help of the Americans - they conspired against Patrice Lumumba who was on his way to becoming the first leader of this newly independent country and probably would've gone on to be a good leader. But the Americans and their allies would rather have puppet rulers in these countries so they can basically just pay them off and take whatever resources they want. As a result the DR Congo has pretty much been a mess since, both for its people and its wildlife. This was probably one of the most spectacular game rich areas of Africa, right in the heart of the continent, but now its mostly poached out.
Anyway, that photo shows an adult male lion killed in a place called Vankerekhovenville in north eastern DRC (near Garamba NP). This lion measured 286cm in total length and 183cm in head and body length. Its skull measured 375mm in greatest length and 245mm in zygomatic breadth. So a big, good sized lion. Information as well as that photo are from the paper, "Carnivora collected by the American Museum Congo Expedition" 1924 by JA Allen.
The political history of Congo-Kinshasa is more complicated than that. Lumumba as Congolese PM faced a revolt from secessionists from Katanga Province (from where Einar Lönnberg described the Katanga lion or Southwest African lion Panthera leo bleyenberghi in 1914), so he appealed to the UN & USA for help, but they refused, and since he was a Communist, he then turned to the USA's arch-rival, the USSR (Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, or simply "Soviet Union", a now-defunct federation that included Russia, Kazakhstan, Georgia and Ukraine, and was founded on the Communist ideology), and this was opposed not just by the Americans and Belgians, but also then-chief-of-staff Mobutu and President Joseph Kasa-Vubu, and so Mobutu apparently conspired with the Katangans and Belgians to eliminate him, and even then, it's not as simple as that. Lumumba as the Communist PM did have his own failings, and after imposing a state of emergency, a journalist who criticised the government got arrested, and there was a rebellion in South Kasai that he ordered troops under Mobutu to put down, but that led to a massacre of civilians in Luba, from what I see.
I'm sure it was much more complicated than I could summarize in a single paragraph. But the point is the US and the Belgians backed the assassination of the first democratically elected leader of a newly independent DR Congo and backed a corrupt dictator to preserve their business interests. They did not let the people of the Congo have their freedom and choose their future. For this they should be condemned and held responsible (especially since the Americans have done this in numerous countries).
Belgium was much worse. They are whining of Germany for WW2 to make them innocent, but they are like "Oh well, it's the past" whenever they speak about what they did in Congo, caused Rwanda genocide, and made all of conflicts in Congo. There are so many interesting animals in Congo, but it's very dangerous to go and study these days. Belgium don't even feel guilty about it. The relations between central African countries and Belgium are still very bad. It's karma. Belgian need to stop whining.
This link will teach anyone in the Wildfact that Belgium was uncivilized country. The same for France, British, Spain, and Portugal. What can we do? That is just way of this world. Person or country that have power will do anything as they want.
(11-01-2017, 09:20 PM)Rishi Wrote: This animal was shot somewhere in Northeastern Congo (then Zaire)..
*This image is copyright of its original author
Actually it was the Belgian Congo when that photo was taken in 1912. After independence from Belgium, the dictator Mobutu renamed it Zaire in the 1970s and then when he was overthrown in the late 90s the name was changed to the Democratic Republic of Congo. Mobutu (a brutal ruler) was brought into power by the Belgians with the help of the Americans - they conspired against Patrice Lumumba who was on his way to becoming the first leader of this newly independent country and probably would've gone on to be a good leader. But the Americans and their allies would rather have puppet rulers in these countries so they can basically just pay them off and take whatever resources they want. As a result the DR Congo has pretty much been a mess since, both for its people and its wildlife. This was probably one of the most spectacular game rich areas of Africa, right in the heart of the continent, but now its mostly poached out.
Anyway, that photo shows an adult male lion killed in a place called Vankerekhovenville in north eastern DRC (near Garamba NP). This lion measured 286cm in total length and 183cm in head and body length. Its skull measured 375mm in greatest length and 245mm in zygomatic breadth. So a big, good sized lion. Information as well as that photo are from the paper, "Carnivora collected by the American Museum Congo Expedition" 1924 by JA Allen.
The political history of Congo-Kinshasa is more complicated than that. Lumumba as Congolese PM faced a revolt from secessionists from Katanga Province (from where Einar Lönnberg described the Katanga lion or Southwest African lion Panthera leo bleyenberghi in 1914), so he appealed to the UN & USA for help, but they refused, and since he was a Communist, he then turned to the USA's arch-rival, the USSR (Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, or simply "Soviet Union", a now-defunct federation that included Russia, Kazakhstan, Georgia and Ukraine, and was founded on the Communist ideology), and this was opposed not just by the Americans and Belgians, but also then-chief-of-staff Mobutu and President Joseph Kasa-Vubu, and so Mobutu apparently conspired with the Katangans and Belgians to eliminate him, and even then, it's not as simple as that. Lumumba as the Communist PM did have his own failings, and after imposing a state of emergency, a journalist who criticised the government got arrested, and there was a rebellion in South Kasai that he ordered troops under Mobutu to put down, but that led to a massacre of civilians in Luba, from what I see.
I'm sure it was much more complicated than I could summarize in a single paragraph. But the point is the US and the Belgians backed the assassination of the first democratically elected leader of a newly independent DR Congo and backed a corrupt dictator to preserve their business interests. They did not let the people of the Congo have their freedom and choose their future. For this they should be condemned and held responsible (especially since the Americans have done this in numerous countries).
Belgium was much worse. They are whining of Germany for WW2 to make them innocent, but they are like "Oh well, it's the past" whenever they speak about what they did in Congo, caused Rwanda genocide, and made all of conflicts in Congo. There are so many interesting animals in Congo, but it's very dangerous to go and study these days. Belgium don't even feel guilty about it. The relations between central African countries and Belgium are still very bad. It's karma. Belgian need to stop whining.
This link will teach anyone in the Wildfact that Belgium was uncivilized country. The same for France, British, Spain, and Portugal. What can we do? That is just way of this world. Person or country that have power will do anything as they want.
... In recent years, Belgium been showing remorse for its crimes in what is now D. R. Congo, so apparently the Europeans are accepting responsibility for that they did to their colonies, even if step by step, so what we should now concentrate on is ensuring both the welfare of people in the developed and under-developed worlds, and the environment.
10-13-2019, 12:32 AM( This post was last modified: 10-13-2019, 12:45 AM by lionjaguar )
(10-12-2019, 11:17 PM)BorneanTiger Wrote:
(10-12-2019, 10:08 PM)lionjaguar Wrote:
(09-01-2019, 04:35 PM)chui_ Wrote:
(09-01-2019, 03:24 PM)BorneanTiger Wrote:
(08-31-2019, 11:27 PM)chui_ Wrote:
(11-01-2017, 09:20 PM)Rishi Wrote: This animal was shot somewhere in Northeastern Congo (then Zaire)..
*This image is copyright of its original author
Actually it was the Belgian Congo when that photo was taken in 1912. After independence from Belgium, the dictator Mobutu renamed it Zaire in the 1970s and then when he was overthrown in the late 90s the name was changed to the Democratic Republic of Congo. Mobutu (a brutal ruler) was brought into power by the Belgians with the help of the Americans - they conspired against Patrice Lumumba who was on his way to becoming the first leader of this newly independent country and probably would've gone on to be a good leader. But the Americans and their allies would rather have puppet rulers in these countries so they can basically just pay them off and take whatever resources they want. As a result the DR Congo has pretty much been a mess since, both for its people and its wildlife. This was probably one of the most spectacular game rich areas of Africa, right in the heart of the continent, but now its mostly poached out.
Anyway, that photo shows an adult male lion killed in a place called Vankerekhovenville in north eastern DRC (near Garamba NP). This lion measured 286cm in total length and 183cm in head and body length. Its skull measured 375mm in greatest length and 245mm in zygomatic breadth. So a big, good sized lion. Information as well as that photo are from the paper, "Carnivora collected by the American Museum Congo Expedition" 1924 by JA Allen.
The political history of Congo-Kinshasa is more complicated than that. Lumumba as Congolese PM faced a revolt from secessionists from Katanga Province (from where Einar Lönnberg described the Katanga lion or Southwest African lion Panthera leo bleyenberghi in 1914), so he appealed to the UN & USA for help, but they refused, and since he was a Communist, he then turned to the USA's arch-rival, the USSR (Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, or simply "Soviet Union", a now-defunct federation that included Russia, Kazakhstan, Georgia and Ukraine, and was founded on the Communist ideology), and this was opposed not just by the Americans and Belgians, but also then-chief-of-staff Mobutu and President Joseph Kasa-Vubu, and so Mobutu apparently conspired with the Katangans and Belgians to eliminate him, and even then, it's not as simple as that. Lumumba as the Communist PM did have his own failings, and after imposing a state of emergency, a journalist who criticised the government got arrested, and there was a rebellion in South Kasai that he ordered troops under Mobutu to put down, but that led to a massacre of civilians in Luba, from what I see.
I'm sure it was much more complicated than I could summarize in a single paragraph. But the point is the US and the Belgians backed the assassination of the first democratically elected leader of a newly independent DR Congo and backed a corrupt dictator to preserve their business interests. They did not let the people of the Congo have their freedom and choose their future. For this they should be condemned and held responsible (especially since the Americans have done this in numerous countries).
Belgium was much worse. They are whining of Germany for WW2 to make them innocent, but they are like "Oh well, it's the past" whenever they speak about what they did in Congo, caused Rwanda genocide, and made all of conflicts in Congo. There are so many interesting animals in Congo, but it's very dangerous to go and study these days. Belgium don't even feel guilty about it. The relations between central African countries and Belgium are still very bad. It's karma. Belgian need to stop whining.
This link will teach anyone in the Wildfact that Belgium was uncivilized country. The same for France, British, Spain, and Portugal. What can we do? That is just way of this world. Person or country that have power will do anything as they want.
... In recent years, Belgium been showing remorse for its crimes in what is now D. R. Congo, so apparently the Europeans are accepting responsibility for that they did to their colonies, even if step by step, so what we should now concentrate on is ensuring both the welfare of people in the developed and under-developed worlds, and the environment.
I don't think that's true. The most Europeans don't feel guilty about what they've done in the past. Even Germany almost never care about what they did it to Gaboon, Namibia, and Cameron compared to they are apologizing so much to other Europeans to maintain EU. Even in trade law, the most laws are normally benefits to Europe. What does British feels guilty about it after they caused Isarel vs Palestine? They are blaming everything to the USA for today's problem.I think Japan also don't care about what they did in the past. There is no point of whining since it is the past. We can't lie what Westerners had done caused so many problems in many countries.
10-13-2019, 03:20 AM( This post was last modified: 10-15-2019, 09:17 PM by peter )
(10-13-2019, 12:32 AM)lionjaguar Wrote:
(10-12-2019, 11:17 PM)BorneanTiger Wrote:
(10-12-2019, 10:08 PM)lionjaguar Wrote:
(09-01-2019, 04:35 PM)chui_ Wrote:
(09-01-2019, 03:24 PM)BorneanTiger Wrote:
(08-31-2019, 11:27 PM)chui_ Wrote:
(11-01-2017, 09:20 PM)Rishi Wrote: This animal was shot somewhere in Northeastern Congo (then Zaire)..
*This image is copyright of its original author
Actually it was the Belgian Congo when that photo was taken in 1912. After independence from Belgium, the dictator Mobutu renamed it Zaire in the 1970s and then when he was overthrown in the late 90s the name was changed to the Democratic Republic of Congo. Mobutu (a brutal ruler) was brought into power by the Belgians with the help of the Americans - they conspired against Patrice Lumumba who was on his way to becoming the first leader of this newly independent country and probably would've gone on to be a good leader. But the Americans and their allies would rather have puppet rulers in these countries so they can basically just pay them off and take whatever resources they want. As a result the DR Congo has pretty much been a mess since, both for its people and its wildlife. This was probably one of the most spectacular game rich areas of Africa, right in the heart of the continent, but now its mostly poached out.
Anyway, that photo shows an adult male lion killed in a place called Vankerekhovenville in north eastern DRC (near Garamba NP). This lion measured 286cm in total length and 183cm in head and body length. Its skull measured 375mm in greatest length and 245mm in zygomatic breadth. So a big, good sized lion. Information as well as that photo are from the paper, "Carnivora collected by the American Museum Congo Expedition" 1924 by JA Allen.
The political history of Congo-Kinshasa is more complicated than that. Lumumba as Congolese PM faced a revolt from secessionists from Katanga Province (from where Einar Lönnberg described the Katanga lion or Southwest African lion Panthera leo bleyenberghi in 1914), so he appealed to the UN & USA for help, but they refused, and since he was a Communist, he then turned to the USA's arch-rival, the USSR (Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, or simply "Soviet Union", a now-defunct federation that included Russia, Kazakhstan, Georgia and Ukraine, and was founded on the Communist ideology), and this was opposed not just by the Americans and Belgians, but also then-chief-of-staff Mobutu and President Joseph Kasa-Vubu, and so Mobutu apparently conspired with the Katangans and Belgians to eliminate him, and even then, it's not as simple as that. Lumumba as the Communist PM did have his own failings, and after imposing a state of emergency, a journalist who criticised the government got arrested, and there was a rebellion in South Kasai that he ordered troops under Mobutu to put down, but that led to a massacre of civilians in Luba, from what I see.
I'm sure it was much more complicated than I could summarize in a single paragraph. But the point is the US and the Belgians backed the assassination of the first democratically elected leader of a newly independent DR Congo and backed a corrupt dictator to preserve their business interests. They did not let the people of the Congo have their freedom and choose their future. For this they should be condemned and held responsible (especially since the Americans have done this in numerous countries).
Belgium was much worse. They are whining of Germany for WW2 to make them innocent, but they are like "Oh well, it's the past" whenever they speak about what they did in Congo, caused Rwanda genocide, and made all of conflicts in Congo. There are so many interesting animals in Congo, but it's very dangerous to go and study these days. Belgium don't even feel guilty about it. The relations between central African countries and Belgium are still very bad. It's karma. Belgian need to stop whining.
This link will teach anyone in the Wildfact that Belgium was uncivilized country. The same for France, British, Spain, and Portugal. What can we do? That is just way of this world. Person or country that have power will do anything as they want.
... In recent years, Belgium been showing remorse for its crimes in what is now D. R. Congo, so apparently the Europeans are accepting responsibility for that they did to their colonies, even if step by step, so what we should now concentrate on is ensuring both the welfare of people in the developed and under-developed worlds, and the environment.
I don't think that's true. The most Europeans don't feel guilty about what they've done in the past. Even Germany almost never care about what they did it to Gaboon, Namibia, and Cameron compared to they are apologizing so much to other Europeans to maintain EU. Even in trade law, the most laws are normally benefits to Europe. What does British feels guilty about it after they caused Isarel vs Palestine? They are blaming everything to the USA for today's problem.I think Japan also don't care about what they did in the past. There is no point of whining since it is the past. We can't lie what Westerners had done caused so many problems in many countries.
I recently saw two interesting series on German and Belgium channels on the colonial past of both countries in Africa. Lots of people were interviewed.
In general, Africans, although some of them thought colonization had resulted in a few improvements here and there, felt quite bitter about the way they had been treated. Those employed by the (Belgian and German) State and the (Roman-Catholic and Protestant) church a long time ago had a different opinion. When confronted with footage of things that would make a stone weep (also referring to the photographs you posted), most of them responded in an evasive way. Only very few acknowledged the colonial structures had resulted in a climate that could only result in misconduct and outright atrocities. I'm afraid it wasn't very different in countries occupied by the British, the Dutch and the French.
In the 17th and 18th century, European traders roamed the world. Their goal was profit. Some time later, when trading firms had developed into multinationals, national states joined them. They added structure. The structure of exploitation, that is. As executing this policy could result in (emotional) problems at the level of individuals (referring to employees), churches were encouraged to complete these 'joint ventures'. They delivered salvation. Not for victims, of course, but their tormentors. This lethal combination left its mark just about everywhere. Although colonization is a thing of the past, the economic and political situation today isn't very different from back then.
As to the conduct of colonizers in the Americas, Africa and large parts of Asia. I've read quite a few books, talked to those who know and seen a number of documentaries. I also visited a few countries occupied by multinationals not so long ago. One could conclude it was a bloody shame and be close.
There's, however, no need to travel or to read to get to knowledge. Personal experience often will do. We could start with religious institutions. In my day, the church was a quite popular institution over here. I started my non-career in this department by knocking on the door of a building where the local church had organized a Christmas Meeting Day for (disprivileged) children. Watch the last three words.
I had serious doubts, but my mom insisted. The man who opened the door (the local priest), sent us home right away, and not in a friendly way. Remember we were children. I can tell you a lot more about the men and women employed by this institution in western Europe in general, but I can keep it short and tell you I wasn't surprised to read about the atrocities committed by those involved in churches in faraway countries a century ago. This is what happens when multinationals, institutions and fundamentalists rule and those they employ can do as they please. Also remember (referring to both history and research) that (most) humans are capable of just about anything, especially when their opponents are disadvantaged in some way.
When we started this forum, we decided to stay away from politics. Every member should know about that rule. Same for you. My proposal is to continue the debate without politics. This forum is about those making their home in the natural world, not us.
Plateaux Bateke National Park (PBNP) is a truly special landscape in Gabon where we have an amazing opportunity to facilitate the first lion restoration ever in West and Central Africa. Our two main goals for protecting the park include maintaining and reinforcing law enforcement and rebuilding its lion population to restore the park’s ecological functions and create future tourism opportunities.
Panthera has been collaborating with ANPN, Gabon’s National Park Agency, since 2010 to monitor wildlife in the park. In 2015, though, after two decades of absence, a lone male lion was photo-captured in the park. We knew this lion represented a new hope for Gabon and, indeed, West and Central Africa, where the lion is quickly disappearing. We increased our level of wildlife monitoring in the park and began training and supporting anti-poaching patrols. The main threat to the park’s wildlife is poaching, mainly coming from the neighboring Republic of Congo. Luckily, wildlife has steadily recovered since park creation on the Gabon side of the landscape.
Current Panthera staff helped conduct first surveys in the landscape in 2001 and 2003 (before Panthera even existed). The camera trap data from those past surveys and today reveal a decrease of poacher capture rates of 99.5% and steep increases in photographic rates for larger wildlife between 2001-2003 and 2017-2018:
750% for forest elephant
820% for forest buffalo
73% for leopard
During our initial surveys of this landscape in 2001 and 2003, lions and leopards were completely extirpated from what is now the park. It is fantastic to see how wildlife has recovered thanks to the protection efforts of our friends at ANPN. The return of the system’s top predator in 2015 is the last missing piece of the puzzle to fully restore this unique ecosystem.“” - Philipp Henschel, West and Central Africa Regional Director
The park is also home to three other cat wild species: leopard, African golden cat and serval. It also harbors released orphaned gorillas and wild chimpanzees. Our camera trap monitoring established that the lone male lion first recorded in 2015 has since then taken up residency in the park. The government, in response, has decided to actively restore the park's lion population. Park authorities have invited Panthera to use this male as one of the founders of a new breeding population in the landscape.
If successful, this would be the first lion restoration ever in West and Central Africa. To rebuild the population, we will use wild and genetically compatible lions, starting with females. This “soft release” process means the individuals spend a short amount of time inside a pre-release enclosure within the national park. Eventually, they will be given free roam and monitored by GPS collars.
Eventually, as wildlife populations increase, we hope to develop ecotourism in the park in collaboration with local communities. The majority of park guards currently protecting the park are from local communities and wildlife recovery in the park will create even more local jobs, including as additional guards, tour guides and drivers.
While our joint efforts with ANPN have resulted in a major decrease in poaching events in the park, we are still seeing illegal hunting persist. Guards are facing more dangerous situations including poachers armed with large-caliber rifles or automatic weapons. The illegal bushmeat trade is considered an indirect threat to the park’s burgeoning lion population as it reduces the available prey for these big cats and can drive them (as well as other large carnivores) to search for food outside of the park. Traveling outside of protections and closer to communities increases the risk of conflict for these animals.
As we continue to plan for the eventual reintroduction of lions into the park, our support to ANPN’s patrolling and surveillance efforts remain strong. We’re seeing positive results from both in the forms of arrests, convictions and reductions in poaching and increases in the numbers and variety of species caught on camera-trap. Soon we will begin building the pre-release enclosure, and we hope to begin translocating two female lions from northern Namibia in early 2021, provided local authorities in southeast Gabon and community representatives are fully on board. Earlier consultations were positive and will be followed up by further meetings later this year.
