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The Caspian Tiger (Panthera tigris virgata)

peter Offline
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( This post was last modified: 05-13-2024, 10:17 AM by peter )

LARCH

Welcome to the forum! 

Hyena is right: creating a new thread about the Caspian tiger will result in loss of info. Our policy is to post everything about the Caspian tiger in one thread. In this way, everyone interested in this subspecies will be able to find new information and join a discussion. 

As to the question. 

The book of Heptner and Sludskij is one of the most informative. If they say Caspian tigers may have reached the outskirts of southeastern Europe in the early Middle Ages, chances are they had very good reasons to get to that conclusion. One has to remember the distance between the northwestern part of the Caspian and the Sea of Azov (and the Black Sea) is well in reach for an animal known for it's ability to cover a large distance in a short period of time. Last but not least is people back then lacked the means to hunt large predatory animals. Even after 1850, rifles were uncommon in quite many regions of central Asia. In contrast to what many think, most tiger subspecies didn't disappear in the twentieth century, but (well) after World War Two.    

A big cat apparently (referring to reliable reports from central parts of China and Java in particular) is able to survive unseen for a prolonged period of time in a region where it was allegedly 'exterminated' decades ago. To this day, there are persistent rumours about the presence of big cats in Afghanistan and the region west and southwest of the Caspian.  

All this to say reports about the possible presence of big cats in what may seem to be unsuited regions like southeastern Ukraine a few centuries ago can't be dismissed out of hand. Big cats are elusive animals. Only very few people really know a few things about the natural world.
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Larch Offline
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(05-12-2024, 07:05 PM)peter Wrote: LARCH

Welcome to the forum! 

Hyena is right: creating a new thread about the Caspian tiger will result in loss of info. Our policy is to post everything about the Caspian tiger in one thread. In this way, everyone interested in this subspecies will be able to find new information and join a discussion. 

As to the question. 

The book of Heptner and Sludskij is one of the most informative. If they say Caspian tigers may have reached the outskirts of southeastern Europe in the early Middle Ages, chances are they had very good reasons to get to that conclusion. One has to remember the distance between the northwestern part of the Caspian and the Sea of Azov (and the Black Sea) is well in reach for an animal known for it's ability to cover a large distance in a short period of time. Last but not least is people back then lacked the means to hunt large predatory animals. Even after 1850, rifles were uncommon in quite many regions of central Asia. In contrast to what many think, most tiger subspecies didn't disappear in the twentieth century, but (well) after World War Two.    

A big cat apparently (referring to reliable reports from central parts of China and Java in particular) is able to survive unseen for a prolonged period of time in a region where it was allegedly 'exterminated' decades ago. To this day, there are persistent rumours about the presence of big cats in Afghanistan and the region west and southwest of the Caspian.  

All this to say reports about the possible presence of big cats in what may seem to be unsuited regions like southeastern Ukraine a few centuries ago can't be dismissed out of hand. Big cats are elusive animals. Only very few people really know a few things about the natural world.

Not sure if my last post is just not showing up or if it failed to save but I will post again just in case(if it's just being approved you can feel free to delete this as it's just a copy).

Thanks for the welcome. I hope to make use of it. And also I agree with Hyenid that the post should be moved to the Caspian tiger thread.

Anyway, reaching southeastern Ukraine and southwestern Russian plains is one thing. That doesn't require much evidence because we know that big cats can and do wander long distances, so a few tigers may easily have crossed into the Don, Volga, or Dnieper regions from their homeland in the Caucasus. A permanent settlement(the words used by Heptner and Sludski are "occupied" and "colonized") requires a greater burden of proof than just suggestive evidence in my opinion.

Heptner cites his own work from 1969(check last 3 sources on page 748 of the archive) but these documents are very old and I doubt there is any way to access them. All in all, too much speculation for my taste and I would prefer they were more objective and precise when speaking about the possibility of tigers in eastern Europe proper-the way they are with regard to the presence of tigers elsewhere.
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ruimendes1 Offline
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peter Offline
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( This post was last modified: 05-15-2024, 04:45 AM by peter )

RUIMENDES

Thanks for the contribution, but next time read the complete thread before you post. The reason is some of the pics you have in mind may have been posted before. In this case, all of them had been posted before.
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lfelipe86 Offline
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( This post was last modified: 05-15-2024, 07:56 PM by lfelipe86 )

Speaking about the Caucasus region, apperently a tiger was seen around Tbisili during the late 2010´s!!!! there is a photo, however i don´t think it was confirmed 100%!! The link is below, apperently some people confirmed that it was a tiger!! i wonder if the tiger migrated from iran like the one that was shot there in 1922!!


https://kvirispalitra.ge/article/25542-s...taceblebs/
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lfelipe86 Offline
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( This post was last modified: 05-17-2024, 03:01 AM by lfelipe86 )

(05-15-2024, 07:34 PM)lfelipe86 Wrote: Speaking about the Caucasus region, apperently a tiger was seen around Tbisili during the late 2010´s!!!! there is a photo, however i don´t think it was confirmed 100%!! The link is below, apperently some people confirmed that it was a tiger!! i wonder if the tiger migrated from iran like the one that was shot there in 1922!!


https://kvirispalitra.ge/article/25542-s...taceblebs/

Sorry guys! it seems that this was a tiger that escaped the tbilisi zoo and not a sighting of a wild caspian tiger!!! apperently recent and more reliable wild caspian tiger sightings reports comes from iran, turkey, china and northern afghanistan like i shared on my other posts!!
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lfelipe86 Offline
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Good evening!! Regarding Azerbaijan and the caucasus region like Bilesuvar, Lankaran, Caucasus, etc... I was speaking to a person who lives in Iran and he told me that about a year ago he saw a caspian tiger attack a boar near golestan national park! he also told me that his family was originaly from Neka and his grandfather saw a tiger around that region during the late 1960´s and a family member saw a tiger near Savadkuh during the 80´s, than i asked him if he knew anything abot tiger sightings in the Gilan area and he replyed that there were some reports in the Gillan and Ardabil provinces during the 1970´s and 90´s and later i´ve read that Paul Joslin found 17cm pugmarks in that region durin the 70´s.

There were reports of tigers in the area of Bilesuvar during the 70´s and the area of Lankaran and Astara during the 60´s and even during the mid 1990´s! 

For sure those could have been misidentifications of leopards because of language barriers, however we can not discard them completely! We need to take under consideration that since the 1920´s and 30´s praticaly all tigers found in the caucasus area were migrants from Iran and the possibility that at least a fill of those sightings during the late 60´s early 70´s may be actual tigers!! 

I always bring the zanzibar leopard exemple and most recently the javan tiger exemple, were hair and DNA were found!! We can never be 100% sure about tigers absence in a region, especially with so many sightings and evidence like pugmarks! we need to have in mind that java and zanzibar are very small islands and if such small places can hide tigers! the caucasus, middleeast and central asia for sure can hide tigers!!

There is also an article called: "Turanian tiger - Analysis of modern situation" by Yuriy Chikin and Oleg Tsaruk that has some information about caspian tigers sightings! Here are some of thoese informations from the article:

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