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Terai vs Assam
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Is the wrong cat being labelled as the biggest specimens amongst the Bengal Tigers?
besides the photographic proof and expert opinions (Dr Ullas Karanth saw his biggest tiger there, Kanwar Juneja a famous photographer also saw his biggest tiger in Kaziranga and Dr.Mel Sunquist mentioned in his email that tigers from Kaziranga seemed like a very heavy flock of Bengals and showed a great interest in them.) Now the question is, are the records from the past telling us the same thing or are we not following science here? I noticed this from Guate (Heaviest skull) * Rowland Ward (1914) - 400 mm x 283 mm - No location. * Hawkins (1954) - 387 mm x 279 mm - Asaam. * McDougal (1977) - 381 mm x 279 mm - Chitwan, Nepal. Assam and Nepal with Assam specimen being slightly bigger Give or take, they are practically in the same weight category since they have similar habitats. Gaur is extinct from some parts of Assam but not in all, it's still abundant in Manas and other parks. I think locally it's extinct in Kaziranga since no one has ever managed to get a photograph of a Gaur Specimen since early 2002. Also to add to this, Wild Asiatic Buffalos are only found in Assam. now going by records and studies, Kaziranga has both the highest prey density. as well as Tiger Density so Kaziranga stands at #1 for both. Now we all pretty much know this but let's see what the record from the past tells us, after all. It's not like several decades changes the size altogether, they should be the same as they were in the past. Also from the camera trap, tigers from Terai are no pushovers and easily rival the Assam Tigers in every department. here's Sauraha male next to an Assam male from Orang National Park  *This image is copyright of its original author Comparisons usually are inaccurate but this one seems as realistic as it can get and specially because they are practically in the same lying position. Point is, they are similar. here's another Specimen from Nepal's Bardia National Park  *This image is copyright of its original author specimen from Kaziranga, Assam India  *This image is copyright of its original author Is it fair to say that this is the biggest cat ever photographed in Camera traps from the past and present, Amur region, Terai or Assam. Can anyone deny that this tiger is on a league of it's own? here's another shot if the first one isn't convincing enough.  *This image is copyright of its original author Ok so let's say we all agree, now what is the past telling us? Is it safe to assume that Kaziranga Tigers are the largest from the scientific records? Just my two cents [img]images/smilies/tongue.gif[/img] 
I think that without accurate measurements, we are left having a debate about an unknown with the use of nothing but opinion.
Even when reliable measurements are obtained, each specimen has its own set of environmental circumstances that either allowed it as an individual to prosper and live up to its true potential or caused it to struggle in life making for a different kind of specimen. I personally think the sample size of reliably measured wild tigers is a little too small to come to any concrete conclusions. 
Interesting topic Rofl
Valmik Thappar who has been in tiger conservation for the past 3 decades, have seen tigers from all parts of India. He says the Kaziranga Tigers are ENORMOUS "Kaziranga has the highest density of tigers in India and they are enormous in size" "It is the great land of the giants, the megafauna, be it rhinos, elephants, wild buffalos, and even a few gaur with lots of smaller ungulates and a host of tigers that are huge and generally look well-fed." http://archive.indianexpress.com/news/gr...s/710692/0 Here is a pic of a tigress from Orang NP died due to poisoning. Just look at her size  *This image is copyright of its original author Lets not forget thise HUGE fellow rescued from Kaziranga and relocated to Manas  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author Here is a comparison I made between him and Madla  *This image is copyright of its original author Now regarding terai tigers. Dr. Dave Smith once after sunquist weighed two subadult tigers from Chitwan National park, two subadult tigers around 20 months old exceeded 450 lbs in weight. Credits to King  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author Here is a giant tiger from Corbett NP which comes in the Northern clan  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author Quote: I think that without accurate measurements, we are left having a debate about an unknown with the use of nothing but opinion. Agreed but from all the data available, I would like to know which group came out as the "biggest". Quote:Apollo Those measurements turned out to be wrong, I obtained that info from a sub-forum that I was a member of and apparently someone made up the measurements. Guate and I clarified that a while back on the original ava, Also this same radio-collared male ended up dying shortly after his relocation to Bardia National park (Poisoned to death and they named him "Namo Buddha". I sent the team an email to verify the weight and the weight came out as 130kg for the cub, I'll try and see if i can find the extract. [img]images/smilies/tongue.gif[/img] (12-06-2014, 07:10 PM)'Roflcopters' Wrote:Quote: I think that without accurate measurements, we are left having a debate about an unknown with the use of nothing but opinion. Thanks for the update. Ill remove it from my post. Here is the news on Namo Buddha's death http://wwf.panda.org/?200511/Collared-ti...l-poisoned Here is a video of him being released in Bardia NP 
Its to hard to tell, Kanwar actually says Corbett and Kaziranga both have the largest tigers he has ever seen. He thinks through stories he has heard that the Himalayas has/had the largest tigers of all.
I look at them and they all just look to massive to tell. I do think that Kaziranga when using the most massive males available seem to have the most muscle bound tigers of all. But who knows. [list=none] [*]s · Edited · Like [*]  *This image is copyright of its original author Kanwar Deep Juneja Good idea Minh Ha!!! the subject is quite extensive and nobody has 100% accurate data anyways! My humble n simple experience has shown that kazi and corbett tigers are generally bigger than RNP or central idea even if u take the very old ones!!! Not gonna go into the inches and cms of their lengths n heights though cause I'm not that much of an expert biologist / scientist[/list]
I posted these in the Tiger images thread, but check out these monsters from Terai
 *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author
11-03-2016, 05:19 PM
( This post was last modified: 11-03-2016, 05:21 PM by Jimmy
Edit Reason: i mistake video type
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Hi everyone, i am new to this forum....i find great topics of discussion here and absolutely like this site. Regarding the discussion going on here i would like to say is the real difference that i find different between Terai and Assam environment at present is terai is more diverse but prey sizes are relatively small. Assam is less diverse but bigger preys are available here and in good numbers. So that might slightly reflect on tiger's anatomy as well. here is a recent video of a tiger during jeep safari in Chitwan
 
Both groups of tigers deserve to be called super tigers with exception of Corbett, ramganga and philibit. They have extremely well built tigers with unbelievable forearms as expert Eli masai said. But Assam tigers seem to be a bit more muscular and stocky as well. Overall they seem to be overall bigger with close contestants from some parts of terai like valmiki, some parts of Nepal.
@sanjay, thank you so much. I will try my best for the inputs. @parvez, yes i think u're right, Kaziranga tigers seems to be more heavily built. They live in the land of the giants and seems to becoming the giant themselves. Terai, i feel is certainly lacking in big prey for the tigers, the biggest availble to them are-nilgai, sambars and barahsinghe, and of course wild boars. Nepal government is proposing a transfer of some species of mammals to Chitwan atleast to revive 'a historic assemblage of large mammals' keeping with the view that tigers are increasing and dispersing to new areas and poaching has been curbed for quite some time. there are some big prey base at present and in the future; Gaurs- 473 individuals (Census conducted in June 2016) wild water buffaloes are present in Koshi tappu reserve- 432 individuals (May,2016) and some will be brought to Chitwan-this year or the next year. Also Barahsinghe will be brought from Shuklaphanta reserve. I hope this will continue to the rest of the reserves in Nepal and also to Indian Terai Arc. Here is a nice video of a male tiger of Chitwan cooling off.
I think Nepal too has gaurs, rhinos and elephants. But they don't seem to be as big as those from Assam. That may be due to the alteration in floral species and the mighty Brahmaputra that supports lot of vegetation in the park. But as for diversification no one knows why that happens. @Jimmy
(11-03-2016, 05:19 PM)Jimmy Wrote: Hi everyone, i am new to this forum....i find great topics of discussion here and absolutely like this site. Regarding the discussion going on here i would like to say is the real difference that i find different between Terai and Assam environment at present is terai is more diverse but prey sizes are relatively small. Assam is less diverse but bigger preys are available here and in good numbers. So that might slightly reflect on tiger's anatomy as well. here is a recent video of a tiger during jeep safari in ChitwanJimmy diverse in the sense do you mean elephant grass is more in Assam while terai supports all kind of vegetation? Or is it regarding animals? I think Assam has all kinds of animals Nepal has. Surely vegetation should be diverse with lesser elephant grass in terai. Isn't it. Please reply. |
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