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Size comparisons

Norway Pantherinae Offline
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#16

awsome Guate! this was absolutely amazing. 

thank you very much! 

can't wait for the next one!
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United States Siegfried Offline
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#17

(11-09-2015, 01:28 PM)GuateGojira Wrote: @Pantherinae, here is one of your asked images, the largest South African lions on record, from the two populations:


*This image is copyright of its original author
This comparison shows the insignificance of a few kgs here or a few cms there in animals so large.
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United States Pckts Offline
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#18
( This post was last modified: 11-10-2015, 05:12 AM by Pckts )

(11-09-2015, 04:54 PM)Siegfried Wrote:
(11-09-2015, 01:28 PM)GuateGojira Wrote: @Pantherinae, here is one of your asked images, the largest South African lions on record, from the two populations:


*This image is copyright of its original author
This comparison shows the insignificance of a few kgs here or a few cms there in animals so large.

Absolutely, I agree, the only purpose it serves is a scientific one since its usually an exact (or as close to exact) art.
Here is the Maximum Tiger one to compare, figured it be cool to see them both right next to each other. Maybe guate can make one with them all on the same page? I'm definitely not trying to start a L v T debate, its just cool to see monster big cats sharing the same image.

*This image is copyright of its original author



A side note: You know whats strange with the N. Zimbabwe Hunting record for that lion, he is longer with a larger chest girth than the S. African Lion yet he is lighter? I guess it would come down to gorged amount or limb girth? Where else could the weight be distributed? I see the shoulder height difference but I don't think that would account for such a discrepancy, but I'm other factors came into play.
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GuateGojira Offline
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#19

The size of the Spotted Hyaena (Crocuta crocuta):

Here we go, with the comparison image of the size of this powerful predator, admired by a few, misunderstood by other ones.


*This image is copyright of its original author


Measurements from animals in the flesh, the statement about the weigh is important to take in count. Interestingly, the males in that sample are slightly longer and taller on average, but the females are heavier and have the largest lengths.

Apart from this source, Kingdom (1988) quotes a weight of 86 kg like a maximum, and this is quoted by Hunter (2011). However, like all the measurements in that book, it is not clear if those were taken from animals in the flesh, or if are just estimations.

In this case, this image is "preliminary" as I have found new data that I will use. So, wait for my next comparative image of the hyaena. Wink
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Malaysia JawaRumbia Offline
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#20

@GuateGojira I have a request. Can you do a comparison between Walrus and the Elephant seal?
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GuateGojira Offline
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#21

No problem, as long as I could found measurements, I will do it.

For the moment, I found this comparative image, it looks reliable to me, although I don't know its source.

*This image is copyright of its original author


Check that the elephant seal surpass the walrus by a significant margin.

Check also this southern elephant seal (the largest subspecies) with a human!

*This image is copyright of its original author
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Malaysia JawaRumbia Offline
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#22

Their huge!! Thanks Guate..
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Austria Brehm Offline
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#23
( This post was last modified: 11-13-2015, 09:27 PM by Brehm )

I want to ask for a size comparison between striped hyenas (or hyenas in general) and indian wolves (or the most common wolves in general). The reason for this is this paper (credits to MightyKarza):

http://www.canids.org/CBC/18/Wolf-hyaena..._India.pdf

While i really enjoyed to read about wolf - hyena interaction, one paragraph is very confusing:

"The coexistence of wolves and hyenas is a complex balance between competition of prey availabiltiy, which to some extent within the ecosystem determines which predator is more dominant. Among carnivores, interference may be asymmetrical (one species is cleraly dominant over the other), but dominance is typically based on size (Peterson 1995; Palomares and Caro 1999). Wolves being larger in size and living in packs could therefore have advantage over hyenas, as was also observed in this scenario."

Indian wolves bigger than striped hyenas? I thougt indian wolves are just barely bigger than dholes and striped hyenas from the indian subcontinent are considered to grow larger than other populations of this subspecies.
Or are the wolves from Kailadevi Wildlife Sanctuary (which is neighbouring Ranthambore btw) able to grow as large as their relatives from the northern hemisphere?

According to Dunbar Brander, the weight of the indian strpied hyena is about 85 lbs for males and 75 lbs for females. source: https://archive.org/stream/PocockMammalia2/pocock2#page/n85/mode/2up page 70
That would mean, it is the opposite ratio compared to spotted hyenas.
Also in Pocock's Mammalia2 on page 92 there are samples about the indian wolf, the heaviest male weighing 53 lbs.

Despite my doubts about that paragraph, im surprised that the wolves were able to chase away a group of hyenas. Especially if we consider the clip about one striped hyena facing 12 arabian wolves! Also, there are cases where striped hyenas were able to hold their ground against leopard's and even able to chase them away from a carcass.
This would probably deserve a own thread maybe...
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GuateGojira Offline
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#24

Hi @"Brehmji". The document is very interesting and open a little window to unknown interaction between predators in the wild. In fact, I am agree with all the document, except in the fact that the Indian wolves are larger than striped hyenas.

Making a rouge comparison with numbers, the Indian striped hyena is slightly longer and significantly heavier than the Indian wolf.

Indian wolf (male): Head-body Av.98 cm (89 - 109; n=4) _ 19 - 24 kg
Striped hyena (male): Head-body Av.104 cm (101 - 111; n=5)  _ 38.6 kg (India) and 26 - 41 kg (Israel).

As we can see, Nayak et al. (2015) don't show any reference for they claim on size. Now, its is clear why wolves are dominant over striped hyenas, and is the fact that the striped ones are mainly scavengers, at difference than the spotted hyena which is a real predator. On the other hand, the wolves are true predators and certainly more aggressive, so here size doesn't matter, but behavior and certainly numbers, as wolf packs has been counted as much as 15 but striped hyenas are rarely more than 5.

@Pantherinae, sorry for the delay on the new spotted hyena image, I had a very busy weekend. I am going to post your image soon. Wink
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India brotherbear Offline
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#25

I would like to see, at some point in time, something a little different: giant cave bear with giant short-faced bear and also Smilodon populator with Panthera atrox. 
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United States tigerluver Offline
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#26

@brotherbear, I made the latter a while back:

*This image is copyright of its original author
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India brotherbear Offline
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#27

If Smilodon populator is more heavily built than a pantherine, and his height and length little different from Panthera tigris soloensis, wouldn't this huge saber-toothed cat be heavier than the giant tiger? 
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United States Pckts Offline
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#28

What determines the idea that smilodon populator being more "heavily built" than panthera species?
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Canada Dr Panthera Offline
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#29

(11-13-2015, 09:25 PM)Brehmji Wrote: I want to ask for a size comparison between striped hyenas (or hyenas in general) and indian wolves (or the most common wolves in general). The reason for this is this paper (credits to MightyKarza):

http://www.canids.org/CBC/18/Wolf-hyaena..._India.pdf

While i really enjoyed to read about wolf - hyena interaction, one paragraph is very confusing:

"The coexistence of wolves and hyenas is a complex balance between competition of prey availabiltiy, which to some extent within the ecosystem determines which predator is more dominant. Among carnivores, interference may be asymmetrical (one species is cleraly dominant over the other), but dominance is typically based on size (Peterson 1995; Palomares and Caro 1999). Wolves being larger in size and living in packs could therefore have advantage over hyenas, as was also observed in this scenario."

Indian wolves bigger than striped hyenas? I thougt indian wolves are just barely bigger than dholes and striped hyenas from the indian subcontinent are considered to grow larger than other populations of this subspecies.
Or are the wolves from Kailadevi Wildlife Sanctuary (which is neighbouring Ranthambore btw) able to grow as large as their relatives from the northern hemisphere?

According to Dunbar Brander, the weight of the indian strpied hyena is about 85 lbs for males and 75 lbs for females. source: https://archive.org/stream/PocockMammalia2/pocock2#page/n85/mode/2up page 70
That would mean, it is the opposite ratio compared to spotted hyenas.
Also in Pocock's Mammalia2 on page 92 there are samples about the indian wolf, the heaviest male weighing 53 lbs.

Despite my doubts about that paragraph, im surprised that the wolves were able to chase away a group of hyenas. Especially if we consider the clip about one striped hyena facing 12 arabian wolves! Also, there are cases where striped hyenas were able to hold their ground against leopard's and even able to chase them away from a carcass.
This would probably deserve a own thread maybe...

For the most part striped hyenas are dominant over wolves in most areas...against Canis lupus arabs in Arabia, against Canis lupus pallipes from Syria to India, and against Canis lupus lupaster in North Africa ( the classification of this species as a wolf or as a jackal is a matter of discussion and controversy) but then again wolves are very different animals from an individual to the other and it comes down to the courage and experience of the alpha male and the other senior wolves in the pack.
A hunter from Syria told me that wolves there will defend their kills from hyenas whereas they will be subordinate to them in scavenging dead livestock (maybe not to attract human attention and subsequent persecution).
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India brotherbear Offline
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#30

What determines the idea that smilodon populator being more "heavily built" than panthera species? 
 
I have read from numerous sources as well as TV documentaries that Smilodon was more massively built than today's big cats and in fact rather bear-like with heavier bones and a much broader frame. Are we now disputing these claims? Enlighten me. 
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