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Replacing the Atlas Bear

India brotherbear Offline
Grizzly Enthusiast
#1

Why not? The Atlas bear became extinct in North Africa most likely due to over-hunting during the nineteenth century. The last one reported was shot by a hunter in 1870. Since these bears, the only bears that were native to Africa during modern times, is extinct due to human ignorance and irresponsibility, then shouldn't we patch-up our mistake; though very late in the game? 
By far, most experts agree that the Atlas bear was most likely a subspecies of brown bear. Therefore, a breeding population of brown bears should be reintroduced into North Africa. But from what bear population should we choose from? 
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Canada Wolverine Offline
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#2
( This post was last modified: 04-10-2018, 07:47 PM by Wolverine )

Altogether with Barbary lion!

Brotherbear maybe you should write a letter to the Sultan of Morocco.
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India brotherbear Offline
Grizzly Enthusiast
#3

(04-10-2018, 07:43 PM)Wolverine Wrote: Altogether with Barbary lion!

Brotherbear maybe you should write a letter to the Sultan of Morocco.

Thank you Wolverine, but he would probably come closer to listening to one of you guys with some college education. It would indeed be an interesting project though. I'd love to see it happen. As for the people of North Africa, the bears would very likely increase tourism, I would think.
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Canada Wolverine Offline
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#4
( This post was last modified: 04-13-2018, 10:26 AM by Wolverine )

(04-10-2018, 07:56 PM)brotherbear Wrote:
(04-10-2018, 07:43 PM)Wolverine Wrote: Altogether with Barbary lion!

Brotherbear maybe you should write a letter to the Sultan of Morocco.

Thank you Wolverine, but he would probably come closer to listening to one of you guys with some college education. It would indeed be an interesting project though. I'd love to see it happen. As for the people of North Africa, the bears would very likely increase tourism, I would think.

Societies in the Middle East are quite conservative and not yet ready for big scale wildlife protection. According to Islam and other monoteistic religions the animals do not posess own "soul' as do humans, so wild animals don't have a real value for God Himself hence their protection is not first task for the state. In contrast with Muslim societies Hinduism and Buddism teach that animals posess own souls, hence they have Divine value and subsiquently wildlife protection in India should be appriori on much higher level than in Middle East. The problem of India was that so called "sacred animals" as caws, monkeys etc in the past were sometimes more valued and in higher esteem than people from lower castes, "untouchables", first European travelers in 18th and 19th centuries were surprised that in that country there were more hospitals for caws than hospitals for poor people...
In any way what I want to say is that in Morocco and Algeria possibility for reintroduction of large extint animals as lions and even Attlas brown bears is very very far down to the road. Currently nobody cares about wild animals in Middle East.
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Switzerland Spalea Online
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#5

@Wolverine :

About #4: alas, quite agree with you... I even think the barbary lion and the Atlas bear could be more likely be reintroduced in a new park in the south of the Spain (In order to develop the tourism) than in Marroco or in Algeria. .

In addition to that when you think about the problems that these countries should face during the next decades: demographic, end of the oil revenues and so on...
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India brotherbear Offline
Grizzly Enthusiast
#6

Its too bad the way things are. I could just imagine watching a documentary, "Grizzly Bears in Africa" and just how interesting that might be. Oh well...
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India brotherbear Offline
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#7

Where should grizzlies ( brown bears ) be reintroduced into Africa? 

*This image is copyright of its original author
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India brotherbear Offline
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#8

Looking at this map of Africa, we can clearly see how the Barbary lion, the Barbary leopard, and the Atlas bear were separated from South Africa by thousands of square miles of hot burning sand. I'm not too keen on introducing wild animals into lands where the species had never lived. However, if tigers can be introduced into Africa, then why not grizzlies? There are environments south of the Sahara Desert where grizzlies would thrive. Some choices in sub-species might be Syrian brown bears and Gobi bears.
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India Sanju Offline
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#9

(09-24-2018, 03:09 PM)brotherbear Wrote: Where should grizzlies ( brown bears ) be reintroduced into Africa? 

*This image is copyright of its original author

I think, other woodlands, Forest transitions & other forests in North west Africa are perfect. but other than them, I don't find any other habitats suitable for a brown bear.
When Need turns to Greed, our Extinction happens.
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Switzerland Spalea Online
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#10

@Sanju :

About #9: perhaps too at the far south of the South Africa, in the Cape region. Mediterranean climate in fact... I say that theoretically.
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India Sanju Offline
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#11

(12-13-2018, 12:23 PM)Spalea Wrote: @Sanju :

About #9: perhaps too at the far south of the South Africa, in the Cape region. Mediterranean climate in fact... I say that theoretically.
Good in theory. but its better if reintroduced in the historical range according to IUCN and also brown bears suitable habitat mostly woodlands, open grass plains and medium dense forests rather than rain forests and arid regions.
When Need turns to Greed, our Extinction happens.
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India Rishi Offline
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#12
( This post was last modified: 12-13-2018, 05:01 PM by Rishi )

Closest subspecies for replacement of Atlas Bears would be the Syrian Brown Bears. 
The Atlas range can provide perfectly similar habitat. (Not wasting time pondering over possible areas outside their historical home range. IUCN doesn't allow it & rightly so...)

*This image is copyright of its original author




Much of their own homerange is under Socio-political turmoil. The Iraqi forces killed one last month.
Moving the survivors left in Syria & Turkey is a rather sensible idea.

Except for another thing...
Wiki suggests that Cantabrian brown bear likely may have been introduced to Africa from Spain by the Romans who imported bears for spectacles.
Everything not saved will be lost. - Nintendo 

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United Arab Emirates BorneanTiger Offline
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#13
( This post was last modified: 09-30-2019, 11:35 PM by BorneanTiger )

(04-13-2018, 07:42 AM)Wolverine Wrote:
(04-10-2018, 07:56 PM)brotherbear Wrote:
(04-10-2018, 07:43 PM)Wolverine Wrote: Altogether with Barbary lion!

Brotherbear maybe you should write a letter to the Sultan of Morocco.

Thank you Wolverine, but he would probably come closer to listening to one of you guys with some college education. It would indeed be an interesting project though. I'd love to see it happen. As for the people of North Africa, the bears would very likely increase tourism, I would think.

Societies in the Middle East are quite conservative and not yet ready for big scale wildlife protection. According to Islam and other monoteistic religions the animals do not posess own "soul' as do humans, so wild animals don't have a real value for God Himself hence their protection is not first task for the state. In contrast with Muslim societies Hinduism and Buddism teach that animals posess own souls, hence they have Divine value and subsiquently wildlife protection in India should be appriori on much higher level than in Middle East. The problem of India was that so called "sacred animals" as caws, monkeys etc in the past were sometimes more valued and in higher esteem than people from lower castes, "untouchables", first European travelers in 18th and 19th centuries were surprised that in that country there were more hospitals for caws than hospitals for poor people...
In any way what I want to say is that in Morocco and Algeria possibility for reintroduction of large extint animals as lions and even Attlas brown bears is very very far down to the road. Currently nobody cares about wild animals in Middle East.

That's not exactly what Islam teaches, this is what the Qur'an actually says in the 38th verse of the 6th Surah, Al-An'aam (The Cattle):
"There is not a moving creature on earth, nor a bird that flies with its two wings, but are communities like you (humans) ..."

And if you think that nobody cares about wild animals in Middle East, then you don't know the region, especially the UAE. Though the UAE is known for its rapid development of cities or settlements, they're serious about the natural environment, and this was a legacy of Sheikh Zayed, the father of the country, himself a conservationist, having contributed to saving the endangered Arabian oryx for instance, and you can find plenty of pictures of the current UAE leaders engaging in acts of conservation:

His Highness Sheikh Mohammed Bin Zayed Al Nahyan (right), the Crown Prince of Abu Dhabi and Deputy Supreme Commander of the UAE Armed Forces, with an oryx calf: https://www.arabianoryx.org/En/Downloads...rategy.pdf

*This image is copyright of its original author


His Highness Sheikh Mohammed Bin Rashid Al Maktoum (2nd from left), the Ruler of Dubai and Vice-President and PM of the UAE, releasing 170 Asian houbara bustards in 2011, along with his son the Crown Prince of Dubai, His Highness Sheikh Hamdan (left): https://www.emirates247.com/news/governm...1-1.336426

*This image is copyright of its original author


Also, please see what I posted in other threads about conservation in the UAE, Saudi Arabia & other places: https://wildfact.com/forum/topic-animal-...5#pid80365https://wildfact.com/forum/topic-bigcats...4#pid72124https://wildfact.com/forum/topic-bigcats...1#pid91161https://wildfact.com/forum/topic-asiatic...3#pid91053https://wildfact.com/forum/topic-arabian...3#pid90643https://wildfact.com/forum/topic-desert-...7#pid82517
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United Kingdom Sully Offline
Ecology and Conservation
*****
#14

I'll add to the post above that the story of the spider saving the prophet Muhammad (saw) is taught to virtually all Muslim children at a young age, instilling the message to be kind to animals. It's one of the most most well known stories when it comes to the prophet I'd say. There is another story about a woman who gave a thirsty dog water, and all of her sins were said to be forgiven. That's another very well known story taught to almost all Muslims. Treating animals with care and respect is not only encouraged, but compulsory within Islam.
"When the tiger stalks the jungle like the lowering clouds of a thunderstorm, the leopard moves as silently as mist drifting on a dawn wind." -Indian proverb
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Australia GreenGrolar Offline
Regular Member
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#15

Brown bears (together with black bears) are the most adaptable of the bears. Therefore, I don't see why they can't be introduced in the area which was once the habitat of the Atlas bears. Brown bears (e.g. the Pleistocene grizzly bear) live in the world with various types of predators. I think the brown bears will choose the Savannah while the black bears will choose the forest areas and probably even feast peacefully beside the gorillas most of the time (occassionally hunting the young, females, or even old silverbacks that have been ousted from their troop by a younger rival and forced to live a solitary existance). The leopard will have one extra problem to worry about given the black bears can also climb trees (and they do so more often than tigers and lions).
https://greennature.proboards.com/

GreenEarthBirds - a forum focused on birds.
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