There is a world somewhere between reality and fiction. Although ignored by many, it is very real and so are those living in it. This forum is about the natural world. Here, wild animals will be heard and respected. The forum offers a glimpse into an unknown world as well as a room with a view on the present and the future. Anyone able to speak on behalf of those living in the emerald forest and the deep blue sea is invited to join.
--- Peter Broekhuijsen ---

  • 1 Vote(s) - 3 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Primates and Predator Interactions

United States Polar Offline
Polar Bear Enthusiast
*****
Moderators
#1

We all know that there are plenty of accounts of leopards predating on gorillas, mainly by ambush, but rarely head-on.

Same thing with Malay/Sumatran tigers and oranguatans.

What do you guys think about primate/predator interaction, not including humans? Do any of you possess any data on this topic?
"If all mankind were to disappear, the world would regenerate back to the rich state of equilibrium that existed ten thousand years ago."

- E.O Wilson
3 users Like Polar's post
Reply

United States brotherbear Offline
Grizzly Enthusiast
*****
Moderators
#2
( This post was last modified: 05-28-2016, 05:29 AM by brotherbear )

I know that it is possible for a leopard to ambush and kill a bull gorilla. But do they? There was a post a few years back on the old AVA site relating a news article of a leopard feeding upon the carcass of a silverback. However, the actual killing was not witnessed and no specifics were given such as the age or physical condition of the gorilla prior to his death. I would think that if leopards posed a real threat to bull gorillas, after a few million years these great apes would have started spending less time on the ground.
I believe that the tiger is the number #1 reason why the apes of Asia are all arboreal. I did read ( somewhere ) that sun bears sometimes clash with orangutans over jungle fruit. That might be interesting to observe.
I will edit and add - I watched a documentary a few years ago about leopards which included various leopard populations in both Africa and Asia. It stated that the one animal of the Congo that the leopard fears is the chimpanzee.
 > The Great Bear - Grizzly - Ursus Arctos - Brown Bear <  
  
             
4 users Like brotherbear's post
Reply

Switzerland Spalea Offline
Wildanimal Lover
****
#3

IMO, a leopard can kill a young gorilla separated from his pride, but seriously, a leopard would never attack an huge silverback gorilla. As concerns the chimpanzees, their social organisation would dissuade any leopard to be tempted to try something against them or one of them. But of course against an isolated ape...

I remember when I studied in human paleontologie the first humans' life in open biotop like the actual savanna, we took as a reference the actual interactions between leopards and baboons. During the days the leopard is avoiding the prides of baboons patrolling the savanna, the huge males surrounding the females and the cubs, during the night, on the other hand, the leopard has an avantage over the apes...

I saw a documentary about the ouranutans during which it has been said that the male ouranutans were extremely careful when they came into the ground (to drink at a water source) because of the tigers. Now, tigers having almost disappeared - unfortunately - they are more "relaxed".
4 users Like Spalea's post
Reply

United States brotherbear Offline
Grizzly Enthusiast
*****
Moderators
#4
( This post was last modified: 08-05-2016, 01:33 PM by sanjay Edit Reason: Embed the video )




 > The Great Bear - Grizzly - Ursus Arctos - Brown Bear <  
  
             
2 users Like brotherbear's post
Reply

Switzerland Spalea Offline
Wildanimal Lover
****
#5

@brotherbear:

This is a compilation showing some interactions between lions and baboons. In the first sequence the ape killed by the lioness is not a baboon (a colobus ?). The third sequence is extracted from a french movie (not at all a good one) with as humans speaking lions (you can see the gestures of the lions' lips).

And why this daft picture/photo montage introducing the movie showing a lying male lion near a baboons pride ? The "author" of this compilation wanted us to believe that he was killed by the baboons ?
3 users Like Spalea's post
Reply

United States brotherbear Offline
Grizzly Enthusiast
*****
Moderators
#6

Yes, I noticed the silent mouth-movements and figured that particular portion of the video was from a movie. The big baboon chasing the lion; was that real or semi-tamed Hollywood animals?
 > The Great Bear - Grizzly - Ursus Arctos - Brown Bear <  
  
             
2 users Like brotherbear's post
Reply

India sanjay Offline
Wildanimal Enthusiast
*****
#7

@Spalea, Youtube is full of videos which are misleading and edited using video editing software to make it something unreal. This is done to get likes and views on video.
As you said this video is combination of several videos collected and compiled in one video by editing.
4 users Like sanjay's post
Reply

United States brotherbear Offline
Grizzly Enthusiast
*****
Moderators
#8

(08-05-2016, 04:56 PM)sanjay Wrote: @Spalea, Youtube is full of videos which are misleading and edited using video editing software to make it something unreal. This is done to get likes and views on video.
As you said this video is combination of several videos collected and compiled in one video by editing.

Sanjay; please feel free to delete. If it isn't real it's useless here.
 > The Great Bear - Grizzly - Ursus Arctos - Brown Bear <  
  
             
2 users Like brotherbear's post
Reply

Switzerland Spalea Offline
Wildanimal Lover
****
#9

(08-05-2016, 04:53 PM)brotherbear Wrote: Yes, I noticed the silent mouth-movements and figured that particular portion of the video was from a movie. The big baboon chasing the lion; was that real or semi-tamed Hollywood animals?

IMO, the second sequence showing a big baboon chasing a lioness is real. The lioness didn't take the threat seriously and rather seemed to attract the baboon towards a mortal ambush (the other lionesses and sub adult lions coming to kill the baboon). In this particular case, the baboon wasn't very smart.
3 users Like Spalea's post
Reply

United States Polar Offline
Polar Bear Enthusiast
*****
Moderators
#10

In these kinds of interactions, the carnivore family is much, much smarter (and physically tougher) than we think.

Wasn't there an account in which a leopard killed a prime male Gorilla in a face-to-face fight?
"If all mankind were to disappear, the world would regenerate back to the rich state of equilibrium that existed ten thousand years ago."

- E.O Wilson
2 users Like Polar's post
Reply

Switzerland Spalea Offline
Wildanimal Lover
****
#11

(08-06-2016, 02:25 AM)Polar Wrote: In these kinds of interactions, the carnivore family is much, much smarter (and physically tougher) than we think.

Wasn't there an account in which a leopard killed a prime male Gorilla in a face-to-face fight?

Yes, this was very surprising for me to see how the baboon fell for that.

A leopard killing a prime male gorilla (by trickery ?) ? I didn't this account...
2 users Like Spalea's post
Reply

United States brotherbear Offline
Grizzly Enthusiast
*****
Moderators
#12

(08-06-2016, 02:25 AM)Polar Wrote: In these kinds of interactions, the carnivore family is much, much smarter (and physically tougher) than we think.

Wasn't there an account in which a leopard killed a prime male Gorilla in a face-to-face fight?

I remember reading an account found by someone in one of the yuku face-off sites. It told of a leopard seen feeding on a silverback gorilla; very possibly killed by the leopard by ambush.
 > The Great Bear - Grizzly - Ursus Arctos - Brown Bear <  
  
             
2 users Like brotherbear's post
Reply

United States brotherbear Offline
Grizzly Enthusiast
*****
Moderators
#13

http://www.gorillas-world.com/gorilla-predators/ 
 
Leopards rarely prey on adult male gorillas, but they do it specifically of western lowland gorillas (Gorilla gorilla gorilla). Usually, they avoid “silverback” leaders that are stronger and focus on young individuals or offspring. Since gorillas live in tropical climates, their remains quickly disappear, consumed by scavengers and insects. On one occasion, the remains of a western lowland gorilla killed by a leopard in Gabon were entirely devoured after 3 or 4 days.

Other potential predators are crocodiles, although incidents with these reptiles are unlikely.
 > The Great Bear - Grizzly - Ursus Arctos - Brown Bear <  
  
             
3 users Like brotherbear's post
Reply

United States brotherbear Offline
Grizzly Enthusiast
*****
Moderators
#14

http://traveltips.usatoday.com/animals-f...07555.html 
 
The Congo Basin rain forest is a major bastion for primates, although all species are imperiled by environmental degradation. Four great apes roam various quarters. The Congo River and its huge network of tributaries mark the dividing line between the western and eastern species of gorilla; the low swamps and rain forests here specifically shelter western lowland and eastern lowland gorillas, distinct subspecies. The Congo also separates the common chimpanzee from its close relative, the bonobo; both of these lithe and brainy apes are our closest relatives in the animal kingdom. Monkey varieties are dizzying: Red-tailed monkeys, mangabeys and other arboreal species roam the treetops, while the huge mandrill – the 70-pound male is the heaviest of all monkeys – travels the forest floor in massive troops.
 
Hoofed mammals, or ungulates, come in a range of sizes in the Congo rain forest. Several varieties of wild pig are native: the bush pig, the red river hog and – biggest of all – the dark, hairy giant forest hog. Small to mid-sized antelopes include the blue and yellow-backed duikers, the bushbuck and the swamp-haunting sitatunga. The biggest rain forest antelope is the beautifully patterned bongo. The only close relative of the giraffe, the tall, elegant but short-necked okapi browses in gaps and clearings. Forest buffalo, smaller and redder than the savanna subspecies of African buffalo, graze and wallow in marshy glades called “bais.” The biggest ungulates in the Congo Basin are titanic, indeed. The hippopotamus, which can weigh 7,000 pounds, inhabits a diminished range of waterways in the basin. African forest elephants aren't as hefty as the bush elephants of woodlands and savannas, but can still top 9,000 pounds. 
 
A widely distributed large carnivore in the Congo rain forests is the African leopard, which enjoys a vast range across the continent thanks largely to its adaptability. Swift, solitary and powerful, the leopard stalks everything from lizards and birds to antelope and buffalo calves. Smaller than the leopard but still formidable is the African golden cat, a heavy-bodied hunter of birds, rodents, monkeys and small antelope. Other carnivores include spotted-necked and Congo clawless otters, African and palm civets and the marsh mongoose. 
 
Birdlife in the Congo rain forest ranges from the western bronze-naped pigeon and the bare-cheeked trogon to the African crowned eagle, the vermiculated fishing-owl and the white-crested hornbill. Reptiles thrive in the rich mosaic of habitats: Perfectly camouflaged Gaboon vipers lie poised in the leaf litter and tropical geckos scuttle up and down tree trunks, while dwarf and slender-snouted crocodiles target fish in the swamps and riverways.
 > The Great Bear - Grizzly - Ursus Arctos - Brown Bear <  
  
             
1 user Likes brotherbear's post
Reply

United States Pckts Offline
Bigcat Enthusiast
******
#15

I wonder if the Congo Lion preys on Apes as well?
They claim the Bili Chimp preys on lions as well.

Bili Apes — Giant Lion-Eating Chimp (Chimpanzee) Subspecies

Off in one of the few remaining relatively primeval natural environments of the world — the Bili Forest of the far-northern portion of the Democratic Republic of the Congo — lives a band of very large chimpanzees that possess a number of very strange qualities and behaviors.
The local folk-stories of the surrounding region make note of massive ape-like creatures that kill and hunt lions, catch fish, and — the stories go — howl at the moon. With many local hunters mentioning an animal that looks something like a cross between a chimpanzee and a gorilla — an animal that apparently, according to the stories, is unaffected by poison darts, as the other apes are.
While you may be now making the assumption that such stories can’t possibly be true, you’d actually be wrong — a fair amount of research has gone into this subspecies of chimpanzee over the last few decades, and there is apparently quite a lot of truth to the stories.

*This image is copyright of its original author


One of the first researchers to get a close up view of the Bili Apes — pretty soon after a 5-year-long civil war ended in 2003 — was a speciality in primate behavior by the name of Shelly Williams. Williams described the experience thusly:
“We could hear them in the trees, about 10 meters away, and four suddenly came rushing through the brush towards me. If this had been a mock charge they would have been screaming to intimidate us. These guys were quiet, and they were huge. They were coming in for the kill – but as soon as they saw my face they stopped and disappeared.”
Sometime after that, in 2004, a man by the name of Cleve Hicks from the University of Amsterdam spent ~18 months in the region field-watching the Bili apes.
One of the most interesting things he saw in that period of time, followed on the tracking of loud calls coming from what sounded to be the same spot for a number of days. After investigation, it was clear what the calls were related to — he came dead-across a large male chimpanzee feasting gorily on a dead leopard.
According to Hicks, he can’t be completely sure that the animal was killed by the chimpanzee — but the event certainly does give a lot of credence to the folk-stories that mention them hunting and eating lions, doesn’t it?
Given the fact that during the very limited time that the researchers were able to observe that population (and usually only from a great distance) there was strong evidence that they killed a leopard, certainly does make you think. Maybe they do eat lions?
While it may not be something that many people in the modern world are aware of, chimpanzees are freakishly strong — much, much stronger than a human of the same size. While “strength” is something that can mean a lot of different things, I suppose, there is no doubt that chimpanzees possess a degree of physicality that is simply lacking in modern humans — as a notable primate biologist put it, they are very “explosive sprinters, climbers, and fighters”.
(As an anecdote, I recall hearing from someone that works with chimps a story about a large male putting deep dents into a very, very thick steel door (they have very dense bones).)
Anyways.. back to the Bili Apes.
At a later point in the research Hicks had a lucky-break when one of the trackers he was working with suggested a place for them to visit.
“We were told of this sort of fabled land out west by one of our trackers who goes out there to fish,” Hicks stated. “I call it the magic forest. It is a very special place.”
It was there that the researchers came across a large community of the apes that showed the same interest and “naivety” with regard to humans that some earlier reports had mentioned. The apes of this community (including the old males) would apparently “surround their human visitors and show curiosity towards them, but would not attack or become threatening.”
“What we have found is this completely new chimpanzee culture,” Hicks noted, when discussing the event in an interview back around the time that the work was done.

*This image is copyright of its original author

Of particular note with this community was the fact that they seemed to generally nest on the ground (very uncommon for chimps, but not for gorillas).
Colin Groves, a primate morphology researcher at the Australian National University in Canberra, noted: “The ground nests were very big and there was obviously something very unusual going on there. They are not unknown elsewhere but very unusual.”
“How can they get away with sleeping on the ground when there are lions, leopards, (and) golden cats around, as well as other dangerous animals like elephants and buffalo?” Hicks commented.
“I don’t like to paint them as being more aggressive, but maybe they prey on some of these predators and the predators kind of leave them alone.”

*This image is copyright of its original author

Also, interestingly, the community has what Hicks referred to as “smashing culture” — having found hundreds of large-snails and hard-shelled fruits that had been smashed open to get to the meat and fruit. Also, somewhat humorously, Hicks had seen some of the chimpanzees carrying whole termite-mounds to rocks where they could then be smashed/broken open. The remains of a large turtle that had, apparently, been smashed open by the chimps was also found by the researchers.
Another interesting behavior that was observed was the use of sticks for ant “fishing”, which is a relatively common technique for “normal” chimps — but, in this case, the tools used were up to 2.5 meters long. Much longer/bigger than the tools usually seen used.
Out of everything though, the curiosity and naivety about humans is perhaps one of the most interesting qualities of the Bili Apes.
Here’s a quote on that matter:
“Gorilla males will always charge when they encounter a hunter, but there were no stories like that” about the Bili apes, according to Ammann. Instead, they would come face-to-face with their human cousins, stare intently in half-recognition, then slide away quietly. Hicks’s group later confirmed and somewhat expanded those observations, saying that when they encountered a large group of Bili apes in the deep forests (far from the roads and villages), they not only approached the humans, but also would actually surround them with intent curiosity.
As you can probably guess, while that would certainly made for a fascinating experience, it also puts the Bilis at great danger to bush-meat hunters and poachers — which have until very recently not operated in the very remote region where the Bili Apes live.
“Things are not promising,” stated Karl Ammann, the wildlife photographer who’s been credited with sparking interest in the apes back in 1996. “The absence of a strong central government has resulted in most of the region becoming more independent and lawless. In conservation terms this is a disaster.”
Hicks has said much the same thing, noting that while the chimpanzees are an endangered species and fully protected in DRC law, “it is only a law on paper”.
Interestingly, Hicks has identified both the official security forces and various militia forces as the cause of much trouble, and corruption as well. Putting that thought quite bluntly when he stated: “I think the military are giving guns to the poachers.”
As of June 2007 illegal poachers have begun operating in the Bili Forest in notable numbers. Here are some figures worth reading related to that:
Over a 14-month period between September 2007 and November 2008, researcher Cleve Hicks and his Congolese assistants documented 34 chimpanzee orphans and 31 carcasses for sale in the nearby Buta – Aketi – Bambesa region (seven of the orphans have been confiscated and adopted).
Laura Darby and Adam Singh have seen another nine chimpanzee orphans and three carcasses in Aketi, Buta, and Bondo, since Hicks left in November. In addition, Hicks observed a large quantity of okapi and leopard skins along with elephant meat and ivory. It is likely that this exploding bushmeat trade is now making its way into the Bili region with the gold miners.
As with more or less all of the remaining megafauna animals of the world, the future existence of the Bili Apes is a very open question — this is almost entirely due to seemingly ever-expanding human settlements and industry/commercial-activity.
This baby/young chimpanzee in the image below isn’t a Bili — it’s a different subspecies — but I feel that it’s worth posting here. It really sums the whole thing up doesn’t it?
(Author’s note: Mr Hicks replied in the comments below and corrected me, the chimpanzee in the image is the same subspecies, and probably part of the same population as well. It was actually offered for sale to Mr Hicks by a government employee, apparently.)

A little more on them...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/a...lions.html
"Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is."
-Oscar Wilde
1 user Likes Pckts's post
Reply






Users browsing this thread:
1 Guest(s)

About Us
Go Social  

Welcome to WILDFACT forum, a website that focuses on sharing the joy that wildlife has on offer. We welcome all wildlife lovers to join us in sharing that joy. As a member you can share your research, knowledge and experience on animals with the community.
wildfact.com is intended to serve as an online resource for wildlife lovers of all skill levels from beginners to professionals and from all fields that belong to wildlife anyhow. Our focus area is wild animals from all over world. Content generated here will help showcase the work of wildlife experts and lovers to the world. We believe by the help of your informative article and content we will succeed to educate the world, how these beautiful animals are important to survival of all man kind.
Many thanks for visiting wildfact.com. We hope you will keep visiting wildfact regularly and will refer other members who have passion for wildlife.

Forum software by © MyBB