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ON THE EDGE OF EXTINCTION - A - THE TIGER (Panthera tigris)
ON THE EDGE OF EXTINCTION - A - THE TIGER (Panthera tigris)
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ON THE EDGE OF EXTINCTION - A - THE TIGER (Panthera tigris)
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Welcome back, It's always nice to see you and Phantera post. TFS [img]images/smilies/tongue.gif[/img]
Phatio, you have me at the edge of my seat. Look forward to it and hope all is well.
Pahtio, Its honor for us to have you here. Looking forward to see javan tigers pic, Actually it will be like magic for us.
Hey Phantera its nice to see u, its been a long time.
If u have time, do have a look at the "Tiger Directory" thread, I used some of your pics and there are others I made. It will be a dream come true to see the pics of Javan tigers. Thanks for the info.  (12-05-2014, 08:53 AM)'phatio' Wrote: Hello Peter, how are you?I can't avoid to be INCREDIBLY exited about this, but I most be cautious. It happened first with the South China tiger with that famous picture in the "wild" that resulted to be fake. I really, really, REALLY hope that this is true. If this is the case, I think that those tigers should be protected with ALL available resources, with the highest priority, they are the last of the "pure" Sunda tigers. I know that this may sound too extremist, but if possible, I think some specimens should be captured to create a captive population, like those of South China. But his will be just an extreme case, from a desperate person trying to save a natural treasure. Phatio, from the bottom of my heart, I really hope this would be true. [img]images/smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] 
Alright guys. Here it is.
as we already know that Javan tiger last recorded sighting was in 1976 (in Meru Betiri NP East Java) and it was officially declared extinct in 1994 after camera traps failed to sight any evidence of the animal or its tracks. But there have since been regular reports of their sighting, big cat tracks and paw prints by local villagers. for example an 11-inch print recorded in 1997 is presumed to be the tiger's.  *This image is copyright of its original author And also recent findings by park rangers of paw prints and droppings that suggested a large cat was roaming the forest. After the discovery of droppings of Javan tiger during the month of August in 2011, the authorities of the national park started a fresh camera trap survey in order to acquire solid evidence that this species of tiger still roam across the park. However, they failed to find any evidence. but not only from Meru Betiri, tiger sightings were also reported from other area, every year I have heard of numerous sightings reported by locals from all over remote forest of Java. one the most recent report coming from mount bromo semeru, another place in East Java. (see my post here http://wildfact.com/forum/topic-the-java...a-sondaica) Javan Tiger May Still Exist in Ranu Tompe  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author http://en.tempo.co/read/news/2013/10/19/...Ranu-Tompe the problem is that the word local people use for tiger "macan" also refers to leopards and panthers, which also inhabit in java. so We must be careful about those report. I personally believe that javan tigers still in existence. my belief was based on Mr.Didik's 15 years of research and efforts to look for evidence of the Javanese tiger. Here's some pictures of his finding :  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author
The Return of the Javan Tiger?
finally, someone sent him supposedly a picture of a javan tiger alive taken in East Java.  *This image is copyright of its original author Mr. Didik said this picture was taken by a college student in July 2014. he was in the forest doing ecological research when suddenly a tiger passing by. he was scared, after taking this picture he ran out of the forest. (fyi, his research has nothing to do with carnivora or tiger) the second picture was sent to Mr. Didik two weeks later from different person.  *This image is copyright of its original author this time, a tiger walking through tall grass in broad daylight. no more additional information about this picture except that this picture was taken in Central Java. Considering the Safety of the tigers, Mr. Didik won't tell the exact location because both encounter happened outside the conservation area
Guate, absolutely agreed with you.
I have to confess that I'm beyond excited the first time i read Mr.Didik post in here: http://www.pedulikarnivorjawa.org/?PENEL..._Jawa_2014 but yeah, we need to be careful here. right now i want to hear further verification (or maybe official announced by the government?) the thing is, unlike 10 or 20 years ago, right now with their mobile phones, almost everyone carries a camera with them wherever they go, so the chances of capturing these elusive animals are increasing. considering that, i realy hope this would be true. Let's see what happens next. I will let you know if there is any progress in here. ok i leave you with the javan tiger pictures compilation :  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author Raden Saleh's paintings 1849  *This image is copyright of its original author Javanese Landscape, with Tigers Listening to the Sound of a Travelling Group" was completed by Raden Saleh in Dresden, the cultural centre of Saxony, and presented to his patron and friend His Highness Ernest II, Duke of Saxe- Coburg and Gotha, in 1849. The painting was in the family for many years as it was inherited by the second son, grandson and great-grandson of Queen Victoria and Prince Albert. 
When a tiger sub species goes extinct, do all of the genes for that sub species go extinct as well?
Would neighboring tigers still carry the gene that caused the branch off in the first place? I wonder if its possible for a tiger or any big cat species to go extinct then if the right circumstances present it self, is it possible for that sub species to come back if two cats who carry the gene, even a small portion of it pro create? Has anybody got any info on it? (12-06-2014, 08:55 PM)'Pckts' Wrote: When a tiger sub species goes extinct, do all of the genes for that sub species go extinct as well?If we focus in the Sunda tigers, at this moment, I am not aware of a published paper about the genetic of Java-Bali tigers. If a subspecies (If is a real one) got extinct, the genes surely will die too. This is based in the "75% difference" posted by Dr Kitchener. So, a real subspecies most be 75% different from the "main" population, so some of the genes most be unique. Now, in the case of the tiger, it is possible that some of the genes could still be alive in the closer population, which is the Sumatran tiger, after all, based on morphology, this population seems to be a hybrid between the mainland and the Sunda tigers. On the last question, I guess that the answer will be no, because although two animals carrying the genes of the extinct population will mate, the product will be a mix of other genes from other populations too. So it will have characteristics of the two populations, it will not be pure, this is the case of the "Barbary" lions of Rabat Zoo, which has been proved to have a Central African origin, from they mother side (mtDNA). 
PHATIO
I wanted you to post the information you posted yourself, as you're the one who found it. Please tell Mr. Didik and the others the information they (and you) collected is fascinating. Also tell 'm I'm watching their every move. I could start a post on the photographs you posted, but I want you to do a post on it yourself. Or Mr. Didik. Tell him we would be honoured if he decided to join the site. I wouldn't mind if you told us a bit more about the ones who took the photographs. Same for the villagers who saw tigers. I also would be interested in the response of the authorities. Do they know? What is their stand? Please continue to post here anytime you want to. We're, as always, most interested. FUTURE POSTS ON SUNDA TIGERS As you know, I measured hundreds of skulls in museums and private collections. The number of skulls of Sunda tigers is well over a 100. At the moment, I'm preparing a number of tables on skulls of Sumatra, Java and Bali tigers (wild and captive - male and female - young adults and adults). I noticed a lot of things I didn't read about so far. For now, I tend to agree with the notions of J.H. (and not V.) Mazak regarding Bali, Java and Sumatra tigers in that I now too think they could be a bit different from mainland tigers. There's also no question Java and Bali tigers are different from Sumatra tigers, wheras Sumatra tigers seem different from mainland tigers. I agree with the idea of Tigerluver, who wrote he thinks Sunda tigers could have been more 'dense' than all other subspecies. At similar size, they could have heavier heavier. Skulls and bones is fascinating stuff. Next year, I also want to visit at least two more natural history museums. One of these is the Budapest Natural History Museum. This is the museum that has the skull of the large male Bali tiger Guate mentioned. I also want to buy the book of the hunter who shot the tiger and have it translated. The museum also has quite a number of skulls of wild tigers bought a century ago, as well as two from Vietnam bought in the sixties of the last century and a few wild skulls from north-east China, North-Korea and south-east Russia. I also ordered a number of books written in the days Indonesia was occupied by the Dutch. These books are few and far between and don't come cheap, but I want them before they end up somewhere else.
DISPLACEMENT OF THE UPPER RIGHT CANINE IN AN ADULT MALE INDIAN TIGER
I found this on the internet some days ago: In March 1947, a cattle-killing tiger was shot near Hardwar (U.P.). Although the tiger was in perfect condition, it killed with one upper canine only: " ... A severe injury to the deciduous canine led to the loss of that tooth and the displacement of the forming second premolar. The upward impact of the deciduous tooth on the permanent tooth split a flake off the crown of the latter and dislocated it into the nasal fossa, where the crown came in contact with the floor of the fossa but still retained a hold on the bone around the apical portion of the root. The growth around the end of the root exerted pressure upon the floor of the fossa and gradually led to absorption of the bone and the appearance of the crown in the mouth, where it must have been an unwelcome visitor to the animal and hence its constant efforts to remove it by the tongue ... " (pp. 59). The injury, therefore, happened before the eruption of the permanent canine, when the tiger must have a little over a year old. This is when tigers start to hunt themselves. It's likely the tiger was injured when he attacked an animal capable of delivering a telling blow. In spite of that, the tiger developed into a large animal, measuring 9.10 (299,72 cm.) 'between pegs' when he was a young adult. So much for the connection between severe injuries and man-eating, so it seems. He was a young adult, because the sutures on and near the maxillary bone (see the photograph) were not completely closed when he was killed. The upper canine is long and sharp, but not as robust at the insertion into the maxillary bone as in older animals. The incisors and the molars also are in good shape. Watch the nasals: quite wide, rounded at the insertion into the os frontalis and not expanding but straight towards the nasal opening. This is typical for many Indian tigers. In skulls of Sumatran tigers, the nasals often expand towards the nasal opening. This is also often seen in lion skulls. He could have been 4-5 years of age and he did ok on cattle, when he met Lt.-Col. R.C. Crowdy on that fateful day in March 1947:  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author
PROTOCOL regarding the use of RADIO-TELEMETRY in tiger studies (2014)
http://globaltigerforum.com/resources_fi...0tiger.pdf This is a recent article on the use of radio-collars in tigers in India. It's lengthy, but interesting and it should end the many debates on collars and tigers. The protocol, I think, suggests there shouldn't be any questions regarding the use of collars. Misuse of collars has happened. My guess is it most probably is a result of a lack of proper training or management. To be clear. If there's going to be another debate on collars and tigers in India, this thread is not the place. Thanks.
just to add to that, the President of Phantera Wildlife conservation of Pantanal Jaguars has also shed light on this matter.
if anyone's interested, here's the link. http://www.panthera.org/node/1564 Panthera Statement on the Perceived Threats of Collaring Jaguars t is unfortunate that rumours and misconceptions exist about Panthera’s jaguar research program in the Pantanal. In Brazil, we work under the guidance of our partners, the Brazilian statutory conservation authority CENAP and the leading Brazilian carnivore conservation NGO Procarnivoros. CENAP reviews and approves all proposed research activities, while the scientists of both CENAP and Procarnivoros work closely with Panthera scientists on the ground to maintain the highest standards of safety and scientific rigour. The most egregious rumour that requires immediate correction is that radio-collars have caused deaths of jaguars. This is absolutely incorrect; no jaguars have died or been harmed by our radio-collaring. We are aware of a large male who was photographed with what appeared to be injuries under the collar. Panthera scientists examined the photos and could find no evidence of injuries; it is often the case that fur under the collar looks dirty which might explain the false impression. The same cat was later observed by guides who reported he ‘looked better’ and speculated that perhaps the cat’s neck had been swollen after a fight when first photographed (although we do not know this to be the case; the cat was clearly in excellent health in the photographs we examined). The pattern of blaming radio-collaring for deaths is one we have experienced in our projects around the world. In part, we believe this stems from the fact that the radio-collars allow us to find dead cats, whereas prior to collaring they simply disappeared. In the minds of some observers, the connection between documenting jaguar deaths and the presence of collars means the two are related; “the jaguars must be dying because of the collars!” No, they are dying of all the causes jaguars usually die- a combination mostly of natural factors and persecution by cattle-owners- but the collars now provide a window into understanding those causes. It is important to understand why we radio-collar wild cats. In the Pantanal, our chief objective is to better document the extent to which jaguars create conflict with cattle ranchers. Nearly 80% of the Pantanal is used for cattle-ranching and jaguars do prey upon cattle. However, local ranchers often blame jaguars for almost all deaths of cattle in the field and many react by widespread killing of cats. Radio-collaring is the only technique that produces the robust science we need to quantify the actual losses of cattle as well as an estimate of how many jaguars are illegally killed. Armed with that information, we can experiment with changes in cattle husbandry- such as the use of electric fences, ‘herd-guarding’ buffalo, corralling young, vulnerable calves and so on- to demonstrate to reluctant cattle-ranchers which techniques truly help to reduce their losses. By doing so, we hope to reduce ranchers’ motivation to kill jaguars and foster their tolerance for jaguars. If we succeed, jaguars will be better off on cattle ranches. A camera trap photo of a collared jaguar in the Brazilian Pantanal. It is simply not possible to get this information from viewing jaguars along the rivers or using camera-traps- remote-triggered cameras that photograph jaguars (and other wildlife) as they pass the camera. Both techniques are useful for providing some information on the numbers of jaguars, especially scientific camera-trapping which can furnish accurate density estimates. But they do not allow us to answer the key questions about jaguar-cattle conflict. Apart from limitations in the kind of data these techniques can produce, the worst jaguar-killers will not allow research on their ranches so there is no way to observe jaguars or place cameras on their properties. Our collars transmit data remotely so we are able to follow cats when they traverse such ranches; the collars even indicate when and where a cat has died so that, even if we are not allowed to examine a dead animal, we will have information on whether more cats are dying suddenly on ‘bad’ ranches. There is simply no way that watching jaguars on the river for a few hours each day can deliver the same kind of detailed information that is essential to address the killing of cats. Finally, it is erroneous to believe that the collars remain on for the life of a cat. Our collars are built with small integrated devices that trigger the collar to automatically drop-off after a pre-set period- up to 2 years. It means we do not have the capture the cat a second time to remove the collar. Panthera’s scientists have safely captured hundreds of cats of many species on every continent where cats occur. We place an absolute premium on the safety of cats and we have many decades of collective experience in ensuring that the process meets the highest possible safety standards. It is discouraging that we are often portrayed as ‘heartless scientists’ interested only in data, when in fact, every one of Panthera’s biologists works on wild cats because we treasure them deeply. By undertaking rigorous science, we hope to ensure their persistence so that future generations can also treasure them. Luke Hunter, PhD President PANTHERA I also have a direct statement from the top conservationist behind the Cougar radio-collaring in North America, he also stated that Radio-collars are safe and so far. they haven't had any issues with them. I'll see if i can find that article as well. Edit: found the link http://www.huffingtonpost.com/boone-smit...48618.html |
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