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Ngandong Tiger (Panthera Tigris soloensis)

United States smedz Offline
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#1

After hearing about the Ngandong tiger, I thought this animal deserved it's own thread. Many questions an average person would have are 

1. How big was it? 
2. What was on it's menu? 
3. Why was it so big? 
4. What predators would it have competed with? (No vs debates please) 
5. We're they the biggest pantherine cats yet discovered? 

What are all of your thoughts?
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Canada GrizzlyClaws Offline
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#2

1. The largest specimen probably exceeded 1000 lbs.

2. All those even-toed ungulates available in the Pleistocene Southeast Asia; mostly bovids, sometimes also on tapirs, young elephants and rhinos.

3. Abundant preys available, also no peer competitor.

4. This tiger was the apex predator on the region, other local predators were much smaller like leopards, dholes, hyenas. Maybe other primitive humans like Homo erectus whose technologies weren't advanced enough to pose a significant threat.

5. Likely one of the largest prehistoric felids, and rivalled by the largest Pleistocene lions and Smilodon populator.


Here is the most recent paper that referred to the Ngandong tiger, if you are interested to read it.

https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/1b74/4a3f6bab9689b2de3267c3d9cf0787e23fb9.pdf
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United States smedz Offline
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#3

(02-11-2019, 04:09 AM)GrizzlyClaws Wrote: 1. The largest specimen probably exceeded 1000 lbs.

2. All those even-toed ungulates available in the Pleistocene Southeast Asia; mostly bovids, sometimes also on tapirs, young elephants and rhinos.

3. Abundant preys available, also no peer competitor.

4. This tiger was the apex predator on the region, other local predators were much smaller like leopards, dholes, hyenas. Maybe other primitive humans like Homo erectus whose technologies weren't advanced enough to pose a significant threat.

5. Likely one of the largest prehistoric felids, and rivalled by the largest Pleistocene lions and Smilodon populator.


Here is the most recent paper that referred to the Ngandong tiger, if you are interested to read it.

https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/1b74/4a3f6bab9689b2de3267c3d9cf0787e23fb9.pdf

Thanks, that was rather informal. 

486 kg= 1,071 lbs 
If that was this tigers real size, then it was a beast. But of course, this may be an overestimate. But we know for sure this was the biggest tiger to ever live. Something that would definitely make early humans crap themselves. Although, what kind of hyenas lived in that region?
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Canada GrizzlyClaws Offline
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#4

(02-11-2019, 04:39 AM)smedz Wrote:
(02-11-2019, 04:09 AM)GrizzlyClaws Wrote: 1. The largest specimen probably exceeded 1000 lbs.

2. All those even-toed ungulates available in the Pleistocene Southeast Asia; mostly bovids, sometimes also on tapirs, young elephants and rhinos.

3. Abundant preys available, also no peer competitor.

4. This tiger was the apex predator on the region, other local predators were much smaller like leopards, dholes, hyenas. Maybe other primitive humans like Homo erectus whose technologies weren't advanced enough to pose a significant threat.

5. Likely one of the largest prehistoric felids, and rivalled by the largest Pleistocene lions and Smilodon populator.


Here is the most recent paper that referred to the Ngandong tiger, if you are interested to read it.

https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/1b74/4a3f6bab9689b2de3267c3d9cf0787e23fb9.pdf

Thanks, that was rather informal. 

486 kg= 1,071 lbs 
If that was this tigers real size, then it was a beast. But of course, this may be an overestimate. But we know for sure this was the biggest tiger to ever live. Something that would definitely make early humans crap themselves. Although, what kind of hyenas lived in that region?


Hard to say the exact species of the local hyenas, and I did remember when I read it, the species remained anonymous.

Perhaps @tigerluver could interpret the whole thing better than I did, since he has continuously studied on Ngandong tiger with the actual fossil under his possession.
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United States smedz Offline
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#5

(02-11-2019, 05:13 AM)GrizzlyClaws Wrote:
(02-11-2019, 04:39 AM)smedz Wrote:
(02-11-2019, 04:09 AM)GrizzlyClaws Wrote: 1. The largest specimen probably exceeded 1000 lbs.

2. All those even-toed ungulates available in the Pleistocene Southeast Asia; mostly bovids, sometimes also on tapirs, young elephants and rhinos.

3. Abundant preys available, also no peer competitor.

4. This tiger was the apex predator on the region, other local predators were much smaller like leopards, dholes, hyenas. Maybe other primitive humans like Homo erectus whose technologies weren't advanced enough to pose a significant threat.

5. Likely one of the largest prehistoric felids, and rivalled by the largest Pleistocene lions and Smilodon populator.


Here is the most recent paper that referred to the Ngandong tiger, if you are interested to read it.

https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/1b74/4a3f6bab9689b2de3267c3d9cf0787e23fb9.pdf

Thanks, that was rather informal. 

486 kg= 1,071 lbs 
If that was this tigers real size, then it was a beast. But of course, this may be an overestimate. But we know for sure this was the biggest tiger to ever live. Something that would definitely make early humans crap themselves. Although, what kind of hyenas lived in that region?


Hard to say the exact species of the local hyenas, and I did remember when I read it, the species remained anonymous.

Perhaps @tigerluver could interpret the whole thing better than I did, since he has continuously studied on Ngandong tiger with the actual fossil under his possession.

Could you maybe let tigerluver and the other prehistoric feline experts about this thread? I'd love to hear their input. Just thought the creation of this thread would make researching this tiger easier for any curious person.
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Canada GrizzlyClaws Offline
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#6

(02-11-2019, 05:18 AM)smedz Wrote:
(02-11-2019, 05:13 AM)GrizzlyClaws Wrote:
(02-11-2019, 04:39 AM)smedz Wrote:
(02-11-2019, 04:09 AM)GrizzlyClaws Wrote: 1. The largest specimen probably exceeded 1000 lbs.

2. All those even-toed ungulates available in the Pleistocene Southeast Asia; mostly bovids, sometimes also on tapirs, young elephants and rhinos.

3. Abundant preys available, also no peer competitor.

4. This tiger was the apex predator on the region, other local predators were much smaller like leopards, dholes, hyenas. Maybe other primitive humans like Homo erectus whose technologies weren't advanced enough to pose a significant threat.

5. Likely one of the largest prehistoric felids, and rivalled by the largest Pleistocene lions and Smilodon populator.


Here is the most recent paper that referred to the Ngandong tiger, if you are interested to read it.

https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/1b74/4a3f6bab9689b2de3267c3d9cf0787e23fb9.pdf

Thanks, that was rather informal. 

486 kg= 1,071 lbs 
If that was this tigers real size, then it was a beast. But of course, this may be an overestimate. But we know for sure this was the biggest tiger to ever live. Something that would definitely make early humans crap themselves. Although, what kind of hyenas lived in that region?


Hard to say the exact species of the local hyenas, and I did remember when I read it, the species remained anonymous.

Perhaps @tigerluver could interpret the whole thing better than I did, since he has continuously studied on Ngandong tiger with the actual fossil under his possession.

Could you maybe let tigerluver and the other prehistoric feline experts about this thread? I'd love to hear their input. Just thought the creation of this thread would make researching this tiger easier for any curious person.


I have already summoned him in my previous post, and he will be here later to answer your curiosity.
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United States smedz Offline
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#7

(02-11-2019, 05:20 AM)GrizzlyClaws Wrote:
(02-11-2019, 05:18 AM)smedz Wrote:
(02-11-2019, 05:13 AM)GrizzlyClaws Wrote:
(02-11-2019, 04:39 AM)smedz Wrote:
(02-11-2019, 04:09 AM)GrizzlyClaws Wrote: 1. The largest specimen probably exceeded 1000 lbs.

2. All those even-toed ungulates available in the Pleistocene Southeast Asia; mostly bovids, sometimes also on tapirs, young elephants and rhinos.

3. Abundant preys available, also no peer competitor.

4. This tiger was the apex predator on the region, other local predators were much smaller like leopards, dholes, hyenas. Maybe other primitive humans like Homo erectus whose technologies weren't advanced enough to pose a significant threat.

5. Likely one of the largest prehistoric felids, and rivalled by the largest Pleistocene lions and Smilodon populator.


Here is the most recent paper that referred to the Ngandong tiger, if you are interested to read it.

https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/1b74/4a3f6bab9689b2de3267c3d9cf0787e23fb9.pdf

Thanks, that was rather informal. 

486 kg= 1,071 lbs 
If that was this tigers real size, then it was a beast. But of course, this may be an overestimate. But we know for sure this was the biggest tiger to ever live. Something that would definitely make early humans crap themselves. Although, what kind of hyenas lived in that region?


Hard to say the exact species of the local hyenas, and I did remember when I read it, the species remained anonymous.

Perhaps @tigerluver could interpret the whole thing better than I did, since he has continuously studied on Ngandong tiger with the actual fossil under his possession.

Could you maybe let tigerluver and the other prehistoric feline experts about this thread? I'd love to hear their input. Just thought the creation of this thread would make researching this tiger easier for any curious person.


I have already summoned him in my previous post, and he will be here later to answer your curiosity.
Thank you.
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United States smedz Offline
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#8

I've read about the chalicothere known as Nestoritherium, which apparently lived at the same time and place as the Ngandong Tiger, that got me thinking. Was this tigers size an adaptation for preying on this animal? What was the bite force of this tiger?
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