Modern Weights and Measurements of Jaguars

[Dark Jaguar]

(06-13-2020, 09:58 PM)OncaAtrox Wrote:

(06-13-2020, 09:41 PM)Dark Jaguar Wrote:

(06-13-2020, 09:27 PM)OncaAtrox Wrote: @"Dark Jaguar" I will remove it. So it seems like although we got some great new weights from him on that table, none can be confirmed to be Pantanal specimems, nonetheless it is nice to see other large males pushing 130 kg outside of Pantanal.

Its impressive isn't it, nature can surprise us in many ways.

I showed Peter Crawshaw the table from my post #298 since he was involved in all captures and was part of the study as well.



Despite I think that 112kg male could be from pantanal I can't guarantee since now we know how much boost cattles can give to jaguars size and also with the fact jaguars from Porto Primavera can achieve pantanal and cerrado jaguars sizes mostly for this reason. the cattles. so that 112kg male could also be from Porto Primavera and the Pantanal jaguars from that table could just be females the 82kg one or one of the 77kg.

That table is pretty tricky if you ask me  


I think none of the jags from that table should be used so far. since the only ones that are confirmed are Atlantic Forest jaguars.

I completely agree, the table was nice as an addition to jaguar weights from other areas. We will be expectant on new captures from Oncafari soon, I asked Edu and he said that he also hopes to capture Joker who in his opinion is the largest jaguar he's seen, but he s very elusive and hard to get a hold of.

One thing I gotta admit from all of my investigations even through maps revealed last night. Gosh I wish Peter Crawshaw confirmed that dark jaguar was a Cerrado jaguar   I gotta admit my hopes were above the sky that moment.

But I am more than glad to know there was a mini-biome I didn't know of as well as all the knowledge acquired in the conversation. Reply

[Dark Jaguar]

(06-14-2020, 12:54 AM)OncaAtrox Wrote: I've said it before not to sleep on the Bolivian Chaco jaguars! Let's not forget Panthera claimed one jaguar from the San Miguelito area weighed 130 kg, and when I asked the about the weight of Aries male who was poached this is what they told me:

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Aries was huge!

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

Amazing, theres a male jaguar from Aurora you regularly post that is very robust I am sure he is around 120kg as well. I don't remember where you last posted him otherwise I would show you now but in case I see him again I will let you know. Reply

[Dark Jaguar]

(06-14-2020, 01:14 AM)OncaAtrox Wrote: @"Dark Jaguar" you probably mean Tote or Caricare

Tote:

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Caricare:

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One last one I posted a while ago who I also think is quite big is Pajarote:

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No its neither of those, its one that the picture is during the day, you can see his body in details.


Anyways There's good news coming, new captures made by Reprocon in Pantanal and IOP team as well as Richard Rasmussen were guests and accompanied the captures.

As far as I know it was a male and a female captured


Female

Male (skip to -10 sec)

No weight statements from them ( as usual ) but I am sure Richard will post it on his channel just like he did with Richard cerrado male and his visits in IOP Sanctuary. So my hopes are all on Richard now to know these Pantanal jaguars captured by Reprocon.


and speaking of Richard check out his new video about an aggressive captive jaguar from brazilian zoo they weighed him, compare the jaguar with domestic cat and much more. check it out.

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[Dark Jaguar]

(06-14-2020, 03:01 AM)OncaAtrox Wrote:

(06-14-2020, 02:20 AM)Dark Jaguar Wrote:

(06-14-2020, 01:14 AM)OncaAtrox Wrote: @"Dark Jaguar" you probably mean Tote or Caricare

Tote:

*This image is copyright of its original author

Caricare:

*This image is copyright of its original author

One last one I posted a while ago who I also think is quite big is Pajarote:

*This image is copyright of its original author

No its neither of those, its one that the picture is during the day, you can see his body in details.


Anyways There's good news coming, new captures made by Reprocon in Pantanal and IOP team as well as Richard Rasmussen were guests and accompanied the captures.

As far as I know it was a male and a female captured


Female

Male (skip to -10 sec)

No weight statements from them ( as usual ) but I am sure Richard will post it on his channel just like he did with Richard cerrado male and his visits in IOP Sanctuary. So my hopes are all on Richard now to know these Pantanal jaguars captured by Reprocon.


and speaking of Richard check out his new video about an aggressive captive jaguar from brazilian zoo they weighed him, compare the jaguar with domestic cat and much more. check it out.

This one? This is Caricare :)

*This image is copyright of its original author

And yes, I also saw those captures by IOP, they're always so secretive with releasing the weights but let's hope we can get them to do it eventually.

Yup thats the one, on your first pict he was on the other side.

Don't sleep on this dude he means business.

Haven't I already said he is impressive on a different pic? I recall calling one Aurora male really impressive it was possibly him.




IOP wasn't the ones that captured those jaguars, it was Reprocon, IOP were guests and followed the process ( despite they already captured jaguars in pantanal in the past ) with Richard in Pantanal and I completely agree with you they won't say the weight unless its in a study ducument or something or you ask them personally I already tried to get weights many times with Reprocon too but with no success either.


Anyways Cerrado and Caatinga jaguars weights and measurements are the hardest to get specially the latter. Reply

[Pckts]

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[Balam]

Paw lengths of 14 cm by Argentinian Chaco jaguars, how well do these compare to Pantanal pugmarks? 14 cm in length represents a big cat:

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[Pckts]

(06-18-2020, 05:27 PM)OncaAtrox Wrote: Paw lengths of 14 cm by Argentinian Chaco jaguars, how well do these compare to Pantanal pugmarks? 14 cm in length represents a big cat:

Huge, any pugmark over 5'' is a 100kg+ cat easy. Reply

[Balam]

@Pckts I do believe these jaguars are among the biggest as well. The ones from the San Miguelito area seem particularly large. Reply

[Pckts]

(06-21-2020, 01:15 AM)OncaAtrox Wrote: @Pckts I do believe these jaguars are among the biggest as wells and even your book talla about that. The ones from the San Miguelito area are tanks.

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*This image is copyright of its original author

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[Richardrli]

In terms of averages, would the Sumatran tiger still be larger than even the largest subspecies/population of jaguars? I would have thought so, as Sumatrans despite being the smallest living tiger subspecies still have larger skulls than jaguars from the Pantanal. Reply

[Balam]

(06-21-2020, 07:32 PM)Richardrli Wrote: In terms of averages, would the Sumatran tiger still be larger than even the largest subspecies/population of jaguars? I would have thought so, as Sumatrans despite being the smallest living tiger subspecies still have larger skulls than jaguars from the Pantanal.

I'm wary of using skull measurements to determine the overall size of an animal because oftentimes skull lengths might be proportionally larger in a certain species than in another one, while the one with the shorter skull may present similar or larger overall body sizes. A clear example of this is cougars and leopards.

Based on the weights that I have seen of Sumatran tigers from different sources, their averages go from 110 kg to 120 kg, and the heaviest Sumatran confirmed in the wild weighed 148 kg. All of these weights are within the largest jaguars' ranges. But I think @peter who has studied the skulls of both species in person and is well versed in tiger anatomy could give us a better perspective on the subject. Reply

[Dark Jaguar]

@Richardrli

I wouldn't rely only on skull sizes to set the sizes here, when it comes to males despite I think Sumatran male Tigers is slightly larger than Pantanal male Jaguars on average the modern pantanal jaguars need proper detailed study on their average sizes since we can't rely only on datas of more than 40 years ago, many things have changed since then.

With that being said when it comes to overlapping Pantanal male jaguars and large Cerrado male jaguars do overlap with sumatran male tigers. Reply

[peter]

(06-21-2020, 07:48 PM)OncaAtrox Wrote:

(06-21-2020, 07:32 PM)Richardrli Wrote: In terms of averages, would the Sumatran tiger still be larger than even the largest subspecies/population of jaguars? I would have thought so, as Sumatrans despite being the smallest living tiger subspecies still have larger skulls than jaguars from the Pantanal.

I'm weary of using skull measurements to determine the overall size of an animal because often times skull lengths might be proportionally higher in a certain species than in another one, while the one with the shorter skull may present similar or larger overall body sizes. A clear example of this are cougars and leopards.

Based on the weights that I have seen of Sumatran tigers from different sources, their averages go from 110 kg to 120 kg, and the heaviest Sumatran confirmed in the wild weighed 148 kg. All of these weights are within the largest jaguars' ranges. But I think @peter who has studied the skulls of both species in person and is well versed in tiger anatomy could give us a better perspective on the subject.

I think you, Richardrli and Dark Jaguar (referring to his last post) just about covered it. A major problem is a lack of recent information from Sumatra. As a result of the efforts of you and Dark Jaguar, we now know a bit more about Pantanal jaguars, but recent info on Sumatran tigers isn't there. 

A few years ago, I made a few tables based on the skulls I measured in natural history museums. I'll post them when I have time. 

By the way. The new thread on large wild pumas is a nice one, Onca. I saw a few documentaries on pumas recently. Experienced trackers and biologists were quite impressed by some of the males in Patagonia and Chili. Most unfortunately, they have not been measured and weighed. Reply

[Balam]

@peter thanks for your valuable input! Lately I've been studying a lot about the ecology of cougars in different areas and I've come across some very interesting findings. For one it's very likely that Patagonia cougars are the largest of their species with mature males probability surpassing 100 kgs more often than not, as I continue to gather data I will update that thread. These cougars are feeding predominantly on guanacos and wild horses (I posted about their interactions with wild horses with more detail on the predation thread in case anyone's interested), combined with the fact that they have no competition and live in cold areas, you get the perfect recipe for large cats to occur. It'll be very interesting to see how that thread develops as we find more information.

We will also be expectant on new data on Sumatran tigers, indeed they are very understudied and I personally think some large males should have no problem surpassing 150 or even 160 kgs in weight. Likewise there are some jaguar populations that are also understudied that appear to produce large specimens, most specifically the Chaco and los Llanos. This comparatively I had made some time ago actually depicts a Chaco jaguar known as "Aries" and recently some of the biologists who tracked him said his weight should've been between 120 to 130 kg. We also have the large pugmarks of slightly above 14 cm, so we know these jaguars are also quite big. Aries and a Sumatran tiger:

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[Balam]

Patrizia Pantanal female, 81 Kgs

Here they had estimated her weight to have been 70 kg before finding out is was 81

Hopefully they'll post the weight of the male soon. Reply