There is a world somewhere between reality and fiction. Although ignored by many, it is very real and so are those living in it. This forum is about the natural world. Here, wild animals will be heard and respected. The forum offers a glimpse into an unknown world as well as a room with a view on the present and the future. Anyone able to speak on behalf of those living in the emerald forest and the deep blue sea is invited to join.
Your first account mentions scat samples which of course dont tell the whole tale.
It also mentions estimates of body weight and any carcass found was after death had already occurred.
2nd account
Maybe he did weigh them but they're still estimated based off meat already eaten. I'd also want to read the entire study to see actual kill data and means of obtaining it. Regardless again, kills are not witnessed here.
They also give a range of 500-1000kg for Gaur, again showing a major difference between a Bull and what I call an Alpha Bull.
You can see Bulls which are similar in size to Cows and you can see others which look surreal, they're so large.
In regards to horn length, the old bulls will have the largest horn length but that certainly doesn't mean they're in their prime.
Odin for instance, the old Bull Gaur that fought a Tiger all night long and lived to tell the tale would most likely have a massive horn length since it'll continue to grow over it's long life.
Finally I'll say this, I agree Tigers and Lions have killed Bulls of either species and my criteria for what an Alpha Bull is will be hard to explain to most.
It's just one of those things you have to see to get the gist I guess.
I'll leave it at this, if I'm a betting man and you put a Lion or Tiger in a ring with a massive alpha Bull, my money would be one the Bull all things being even.
But as we know, the wild doesn't play by those rules and I fully acknowledge that anything I think is unlikely can easily be possible with the right conditions.
I almost forgot to answer this:
The use of scats is not related with the calculation of weight, so what is your point? Scats are used to get what species are predated and, IF posible they can try to check the age of the species based in the color of the hair, but that is all. In Schaller (1967) and Karanth & Sunquist (1995) they clearly explained that to get the weights, age and health status they checked the carcases and they WEIGHED them, so your complain about the use of scats is irrelevant in this point.
Second, you complain that they weighed the carcasses after the tiger already ate them, but check that the carcasses were no more than 2 or 3 days old and how much meat do you think that a tiger can eat in 3 days? Based in Sunquist (1981) a tiger (male/female mixed) can eat about 46 kg in three days or 15.3 kg per day, but as there is a maximum of about 19 kg for large males, we can see that the amount eat for 3 days will be about 57 kg. And even if we especulate that the tiger ate up to 35 kg per day, the amount will be of 105 kg in the three days (very unlikle). In this case, if the carcasse weighed about 850 kg and they estimated the other 100 kg of more to get the 1,000 kg, they still recorded that tiger do killed male gaurs of over 800 kg, which is a big feat, but this is just a guess and we need to trust these men (Schaller/Karanth/Sunquist) that clearly explained the method that they used and that I clearly showed to you the details, so I don't see the reason why you still complain for they results.
You ask for the methods that they used to obtain the data of kills, please check my post again because I put the part where they explained that. You say that "kills are not winessed here", so based in you logic the big bulls of 1,000 kg were just magically dead there every couple of days and the tiger saw them and grab it in the trouth and/or nose and scrach they back just for fun???? Dr Karanth found evidence of strugle and even one of the tigers they they studied died hunting a gaur.
The range of 500-1000 kg is about the two sexes, so you can't use it to claim that there are "alpha" bulls and "normall" bulls (a concept that do not exist in sciencific litterature about gaurs). Also I already clearly showed the health status and the age of the prey hunted by tigers, especifically of males, so I am surprised that even after all the evidence you simple ignore all these details.
I already showed to you the evidence, the details of the study and serious scientists like Dr Karanth are not going to state something that is not based in real evidence, specially when they actually recorded it. So my vote is for the people that actually saw the events and not the claims of a person that make personall "guesses" about what he/she think that could happen.
I think that if after the data showed there are still complains about it, you should contacte them directly.
Maximum size of prey that a single male lion or tiger can kill
