Lions of Sabi Sands

[Charan Singh]

Sabi Sand Lion Dynamics at the start of the Dec 2023 month.
I know it's changed a lot since but still, this video is quite good.

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

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[Robot00]

@Cath2020

I stand corrected on NK male's age but the long essay you've wrote i wish i could unread that nothingness. 

I dont want to argue or debate but if you have not followed the NK male then you should learn more about him before writing that essay.

To summarize what most of us know so far. NK male is only an opportunistic lover and not a fighter. He submits to any males 1v1. From his younger days to present. That's his character Reply

[Ttimemarti]

(12-26-2023, 01:24 PM)Robot00 Wrote: @Cath2020

I stand corrected on NK male's age but the long essay you've wrote i wish i could unread that nothingness. 

I dont want to argue or debate but if you have not followed the NK male then you should learn more about him before writing that essay.

To summarize what most of us know so far. NK male is only an opportunistic lover and not a fighter. He submits to any males 1v1. From his younger days to present. That's his character

What’s wrong with what she said for it to all be nothingness? Reply

[KM600]

(12-26-2023, 08:24 AM)Cath2020 Wrote:

(12-26-2023, 05:08 AM)Robot00 Wrote:

(12-26-2023, 04:15 AM)NLAL11 Wrote:

(12-26-2023, 02:17 AM)Mapokser Wrote: Another thing is that Skorro always seemed to be a very confident male, even trying to be territorial alone while surrounded by duos.

A partner at prime age will give him a huge boost in confidence.

It'll come down to NK now to finally show his confidence, this guy is a big male, he has seen a thousand battles, all he needs is confidence and he'll be a formidable opponent. I hope they can get a few more months of bonding and peace until they face any real challenge, so they can have their teamwork boosted by then.

How the Nkuhuma male behaves in this coaltion will be everything. He's always had the potential to be an absolute beast. He just needs to realise it. They're a similar age so I think this will be a good parntership for him. As you said, hope they get time to finish forming their bond.

I dont think they're closely in age. NK is 8yrs plus. He's on the last yr or two of his prime while orpen skorro is in his prime around 6yrs. Yes two years apart doesnt seem much in human years but for male lions it's a huge difference as they age much faster. They start showing signs of old once they get to around 10yrs

I do hope NK has finally has the balls to stand and fight with young orpen skorro. Ive been hoping that from him since forever

No, the NK Male is not 8 years old yet.  He was born in mid-2016, so about 7.5 years.  It's not uncommon for males to get partner(s) later in their life, especially if they're lone males.  It's not that easy finding and keeping a partner because of location, temperament, not being familiar with each other since birth, etc... Plus, it takes a bit of luck, too.  

What do you mean balls?  This male is probably one of the best survivors.  He's physically healthy and solid looking.  Not to mention out-lasting both his younger, less wise/healthy partners, and his older, more aggressive (but that was his downfall!) uncle/father.  Males have to know when to fight and when to judge that it would not be good to do that based on condition and overall health.  If he wants to stay fit when he can finally be a pride male, he also needs to keep his healthy state as much as possible.  Male lions often sacrifice their lives for their pride in protecting them.  If he was too aggressive that wouldn't be possible when he finally reaches the pinnacle of his life.

Male lions can't force partnerships and become territorial.  Everything has to come together.  The Delaporte Male could not become a pride male earlier in life, after all, he was a lone male, plus he lost many unrelated partners to other males and probably to poachers.  He did the best he could and has finally reached the pinnacle....but yes, it may be a short-lived one, however he still was successful and maybe passed on his genes in the recent mating sessions he's been seen in.  He's had strong/young partners for a long time now, it's just that they only recently become pride/territorial males.

Not sure Nhenha is a good example in this, obviously the fight wasn’t observed but from the minor injuries to Nkuhuma Male around the time it’s clear he didn’t stick around to back Nhenha. Also Nhenha being that aggressive wasn’t his downfall, if anything you’d rather atleast one of the partners being that aggressive in a small upcoming coalition, his downfall was quite simply picking the wrong partner or atleast challenging when they did although he was old and prolly wanted to give it one last shot at being a pride male.

 I don’t think anyone is disputing that Nkuhuma Male isn’t an efficient survivor but up until this point that’s all he’s ever been. I really do hope he become serious but ultimately he’s in one of the most challenging places in Sabi Sand, surrounded by all these coalitions who are either cemented as pride males or upcoming. It won’t be easy but hopefully he can somehow, someway become successful. Reply

[Duco Ndona]

Nhenha wasn't that agressive. The last portion of his life he mostly spend fleeing, retreating and otherwise avoiding fights. I think the last real fight he was involved in as a aggressor was when the BBoys dispatched the Othawa male.
The only reason their stay in western sector lasted as long as it id was because it took a long while before the PCmales got serious about the Ximhungwe pride.  

As for Nkuhuma. 
There is also no real reason to blame Nkuhuma for Nhenhas demise. Most likely the PCmales ambushed Nhenha and severely wounded him before Nym even had a chance to react. That he had some wounds shows he was at least involved in the fight, as opposed to just running away. His intervention may very well be why Nhenha came out of it alive in the first place as the PCmales are unlikely to continue a fight in a 2vs2 scenario.
He is also so far the only lion currently alive that managed to chase of the PCmales with the help of the Styx male. 

I think that he is still going out, looking for opportunities, speaks for the strength of his character. While for contrast the Tumbella male, which was pretty much in the same situation as he was at the start of the year, seems to be intent on spending the rest of his life hiding in western sector. Nym is actually out there, finding lionesses to mate with and scouting male lions for potential partners. 
Whether this current attempt with Skorro is to be successful remains to be seen though. So far his recent attempts went bust even after a successful start. Reply

[KM600]

(12-26-2023, 04:50 PM)Duco Ndona Wrote: As for Nkuhuma. 
There is also no real reason to blame Nkuhuma for Nhenhas demise. Most likely the PCmales ambushed Nhenha and severely wounded him before Nym even had a chance to react. That he had some wounds shows he was at least involved in the fight, as opposed to just running away. His intervention may very well be why Nhenha came out of it alive in the first place as the PCmales are unlikely to continue a fight in a 2vs2 scenario.
He is also so far the only lion currently alive that managed to chase of the PCmales with the help of the Styx male. 

I wasn’t completely blaming him for Nhenhas death, end of the day it’s not his fault Nhenha was caught. Obviously speaking theoretically, I don’t think Nkuhuma Male was the reason Nhenha come out alive, unless he was caught and Nkuhuma Male showed up instantly to save him. The fact Nhenha was last seen feeding with the two Ottawa lionesses and I think even Tumbela made an appearance points to the fact Nkuhuma Male lost contact with Nhenha during the fight. Likely it was an exact replicate of Southern Avocas vs Dreadlocks, PCMs believed they had done sufficient damage and that’s why Nhenha was allowed to live that little bit longer. Reply

[Duco Ndona]

Lions will always abandon each other when one is unable to keep up. They need to stay on the move to keep up with prey and such. 
Nhenha was to far gone at that point so it was either abandoning him or starving with him. In Nhenhas condition, finding him would have been easy and I doubt Nym wouldn't have tried, had he not been aware of how badly the fight ended. 

Afterwards, Nhenha pretty much wandered around and found the Othawas, which were on a kill at that time and didn't find his appearance worthwhile enough to move off. 

And while I can believe the PCmales at one point stopping the attack on Nhenha themselves. They wouldn't let Nym get off with just a scratches if all he did was run away. Reply

[Redroadmale]

Do the gijimas control the talamati pride Reply

[Mapokser]

@Robot00 one thing to keep in mind about the NK male prime years is that he has amazing genes.

He was alone and/or nomadic for most of his life,  but never looked in bad shape, even when he got limps he looked in amazing condition.

It's possible that if he doesn't get seriously injured or gets TB he'll be like Nhenha and reach 12yo in great shape.

I'd be very surprised if he doesn't keep his prime condition at least throughout his 10th year.

So if he manages to become territorial with Skorro next year, they'll be in perfect condition to hold a pride for 3 years or so. Reply

[Mapokser]

And something interesting is that in the comments the guide said Skorro is bigger than Nkuhuma, so Skorro must be one of the biggest lions in the SS right now.

Interesting because NK was as big as Nhenha who for a while was considered the biggest in the reserve.

Now we have PCM, Skorro and bigger Talamati all as bigger than NK, potentially the smaller Talamati is at least around the same size. Reply

[Cath2020]

(12-26-2023, 01:24 PM)Robot00 Wrote: @Cath2020

I stand corrected on NK male's age but the long essay you've wrote i wish i could unread that nothingness. 

I dont want to argue or debate but if you have not followed the NK male then you should learn more about him before writing that essay.

To summarize what most of us know so far. NK male is only an opportunistic lover and not a fighter. He submits to any males 1v1. From his younger days to present. That's his character

No, it's not an essay, neither is it particularly long.  If you think so, I guess you don't bother to read many posts then.

Being honest, most of your posts I either skim over or roll my eyes at, since you are apt to either hype up certain lions, or needlessly put down some in a very anthropomorphic, cringe-worthy way.  There are a few others like that here too, but you in particular.   No need to be rude, either, by the way. Reply

[afortich]

Summary including Nkuhuma male with Skorro, N’waswitshaka/Ndzengeand and Tumbela

Reply

[KM600]

(12-26-2023, 10:40 PM)Mapokser Wrote: And something interesting is that in the comments the guide said Skorro is bigger than Nkuhuma, so Skorro must be one of the biggest lions in the SS right now.

Interesting because NK was as big as Nhenha who for a while was considered the biggest in the reserve.

Now we have PCM, Skorro and bigger Talamati all as bigger than NK, potentially the smaller Talamati is at least around the same size.

Hmmm I’d need to see evidence because Nkuhuma Male especially recently has looked massive. Best shape I’ve seen him in yet. Reply

[Potato]

(12-26-2023, 10:40 PM)Mapokser Wrote: And something interesting is that in the comments the guide said Skorro is bigger than Nkuhuma

Tbh I doubt that. At least in comparison with one of the Birmingham breakaways which was seen with Skorro he did not look impressive at all.

(12-26-2023, 10:40 PM)Mapokser Wrote: so Skorro must be one of the biggest lions in the SS right now

Even if he is bigger than Nkuchuma does it makes him one of the biggests in Sabi Sands? With such males around like Manimahles, Nkhulus, Plains Camps, Kruger male, Gijimas or young Talamatis I would guess most adult males currently living in Sabi Sands would put more on to the scale than Nkuchuma male would.

(12-26-2023, 10:40 PM)Mapokser Wrote: Nhenha who for a while was considered the biggest in the reserve

... by some randoms in the internet? Even looking at the years 2018-2021 only there are still DM Avoca, Othawa male, Imbali and Kruger males from which any could potentially be bigger than Nhenha. Saying Nhenha was the biggest among those is nothink more than blind guess. Reply

[Gavskrr]

I'm still waiting for images of the tumbela male walking to get a better idea of his physique and his problematic leg, anyway, after a long time things seem a little calmer, Happy for Nkuhuma and Skorro I hope they get together finally and that this calm weather persists for now Reply