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Lions of Sabi Sands
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 (11-08-2023, 05:57 AM)sik94 Wrote: That's not TB unless I see some verification, TB never just kills a well fed lion so suddenly. We didn't see a gradual decline like Blondie avoca or Lambille, S8 was completely healthy until a week ago. The drooling, him looking disoriented and unable to move much, that's not TB. Guides just love to say it's TB whenever lions have health issues, every sick lion isn't a case of TB. They seem pretty clear on it, but the other option with the white foam is Rabies. Either way the prognosis doesn't seem good.  (11-08-2023, 06:09 AM)T_Ferguson Wrote:(11-08-2023, 05:57 AM)sik94 Wrote: That's not TB unless I see some verification, TB never just kills a well fed lion so suddenly. We didn't see a gradual decline like Blondie avoca or Lambille, S8 was completely healthy until a week ago. The drooling, him looking disoriented and unable to move much, that's not TB. Guides just love to say it's TB whenever lions have health issues, every sick lion isn't a case of TB. It's all just hearsay. Whatever it is, it's not TB. I just don't like them saying things they couldn't possibly know . 
Keep in mind that lions drool a lot anyway. Just becouse we saw him having some drool earlier does not mean its rabies.
Unless you are a vet with experience in these matters. We should be carefull not to make bold statements.  (11-07-2023, 02:56 AM)Mapokser Wrote: Though speaking of it I remember someone saying to take what he says with a grain of salt regarding the issue with the Sand River Pride because he'll want to protect his lodges, status and what not... I decided not to reply since the discussion was dragging on an unrelated thread, but regarding this, as he himself said, the SRP was the only reliable pride in the Western Sector at that time, it wasn't in the interest of any of the lodges to shot the pride dead, it was the only pride they had to show to their guests. The local authorities outside the reserve are the culprits for what happened. 100% about Rob. He is a wealth of knowledge but..... he will say things and NOT inform if it's bad publicity. For example the 4th Moniko-Sankai young male last Sept 2022 who was speared and suffered for 2 weeks after. He kept quiet until I questioned him then he got defensive. He is actively keeping quiet (Robs own words) and down playing the predetor spearing and poisoning down in the Mara where he owns/runs Lalashe Safari and other ladges. I've also ready the distrust of him during the Mapojo days by people.
Highly, highly doubt they would leave an animal out there that has or is suspected of having rabies. I also am skeptical of TB, I find it true everybody likes to throw that disease out there evert time a lion is sick and dying a slow death. I don't know either way but I am skeptical until the autopsy. If it turns out to be TB then the last battle with that other lion we don't know of who had S8 head in his jaws plus the Buffalo incident could have kicked TB into high gear. He was in excellent physical condition and great mental condition. I find it hard to believe without something triggering it he would have shown symptoms this bad. Ives watched videos of animals and humans with rabies and I don't believe he has symptoms of rabies.
(11-08-2023, 11:48 AM)BigLion39 Wrote: Highly, highly doubt they would leave an animal out there that has or is suspected of having rabies. I also am skeptical of TB, I find it true everybody likes to throw that disease out there evert time a lion is sick and dying a slow death. I don't know either way but I am skeptical until the autopsy. If it turns out to be TB then the last battle with that other lion we don't know of who had S8 head in his jaws plus the Buffalo incident could have kicked TB into high gear. He was in excellent physical condition and great mental condition. I find it hard to believe without something triggering it he would have shown symptoms this bad. Ives watched videos of animals and humans with rabies and I don't believe he has symptoms of rabies. Agree with everything you said. The snake bite looks like the best explanation to me so far considering how suddenly everything happened. 
Keep in mind that TB or that "black spot" disease are not only diseases out there from which lions suffer.
Theres dozens of diseases out there causes by bacteria, parasites, viruses etc, for which is very little known. TB is most famous one, so when lion is seen sick, everyone just says its TB. Lions can also be sick from natural diseases, like cancer, heart, liver, blood diseases etc. Even if lion is positive on TB, it doesnt have to be the main reason for his demise.   (11-08-2023, 03:08 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote: Keep in mind that TB or that "black spot" disease are not only diseases out there from which lions suffer. Exactly. This is what I tried to convey. Most these lions have TB. But very few die of it. Very very few ever display TB symptoms. It’s other things that go wrong that overcomes them.  (11-08-2023, 03:56 PM)Horizon Wrote:Shame that the video isn’t zoomed out a little bit so we could see if that’s a Talamati YM or Talamati female accompanying him, the page did like a comment about him being with the Talamati YMs but also about Nkuhuma Male being observed mating with females. Ofcourse a like on an insta post isn’t anywhere near confirmed, but I’m interested to see who he’s with.  (11-08-2023, 05:57 AM)sik94 Wrote: That's not TB unless I see some verification, TB never just kills a well fed lion so suddenly. We didn't see a gradual decline like Blondie avoca or Lambille, S8 was completely healthy until a week ago. The drooling, him looking disoriented and unable to move much, that's not TB. Guides just love to say it's TB whenever lions have health issues, every sick lion isn't a case of TB. I figured, that TB is a suitable cover up. If it something they don't want to publish for any reason they can always say it's TB and stick to it. So if it is say from meat poisoning we might never know. Still seems odd how if it is something that can be spread beyond lions, they don't act. With Orpen Male (anthrax) they closed off the area. (11-08-2023, 03:08 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote: Keep in mind that TB or that "black spot" disease are not only diseases out there from which lions suffer. I think they always say TB as well, because they have said repeatedly that most of the lions in and around Sabi Sand have it. They just don't all die from it. I have thought snake bite from the beginning as someone had noted a weird mark on his left rear leg just above the paw. But again... We are looking at pictures. These guides that do this every single day for a living and are there in person are saying what they believe. I'd go with their thoughts over anybody else analyzing from behind a screen. (11-08-2023, 06:02 PM)Tonpa Wrote: S8 Male has died RIP, he died as reigning king. This death remainds me of Mhangeni Big Boys death, in both cases they where gone in a week or so. They said they will take S8's body for abduction. They did it with Mhangenis Big Boys body aswell, but we never got an answer what caused his demise. 
11-08-2023, 07:36 PM
( This post was last modified: 11-08-2023, 07:37 PM by 1ofCourage
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(11-08-2023, 06:40 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote:I believe he was poisoned. I always will think that. Perhaps with arsenic which has no smell or taste. The symptoms are the same, too.(11-08-2023, 06:02 PM)Tonpa Wrote: S8 Male has died Such a shame, and they probably thought they'd get him with all the lionesses the first time, but they just kept at it. I hope the last lioness and the cubs will be left alone. Somehow I don't think so. No corpse lying around, so no addltional deaths to prove poisoning. |
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