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Lions of Sabi Sands
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 (12-15-2023, 01:48 AM)KM600 Wrote:(12-15-2023, 01:31 AM)afortich Wrote: Summary of lost lions in 2023 Nitpicking - technically is also quite possible he was not "lost" in Sabi Sands and can be argued how much Sabi Sands lion the two were, although I am sure they were always included in the summaries. But yeah I noticed his omission too, I guess lack of info of what happened to him factored in the decision as much as a slim chance he is still around. (12-15-2023, 02:33 AM)Duco Ndona Wrote: Its the season for it I guess. Lost of media have their stuff out already for weeks now and the chance of another mayor death are slim. Well, if we count male cubs, the Sand River male cub killed by Nkhulus was a more touching loss (video included) being much older, although from your point of view Ximhungwe female might procreate and secure her lineage to go on, so it might be more impactful in that regard, although the loss itself is imho not very noteworthy, as with so little cubs, this happens all the time and often even before it is known what sexes the cubs are, just the bunch of cubs in a pride gets smaller from time to time, the survival rate is what, 25%(?), it is just that this one aws a solo cub in a small pride on top of that and who its mother was.  (12-15-2023, 11:38 PM)Robot00 Wrote: I think it's a mistake for them to venture up north now the kambula boys are laying their claim. If they're not careful and dont play their role of just "stay in your territory" instead of trying to challenge The kam boys, they are in a world of hurt. The kam boys are prime for conquest. The only reason they would spare the Ndhzenga males is because they are the current protectors of their old family. If Kambulas are their new neighbours north, Ndhzengas need to send clear message from the beginning, that they are not to be mess with in future.  (12-15-2023, 11:38 PM)Robot00 Wrote:(12-15-2023, 09:23 PM)KM600 Wrote: Ndhzenga back in the North, like the comment says ‘I like their style’ and I agree as they tend to always show up when there’s a lot of tension in the area. Must’ve heard either one of the coalitions roaring and decided it’s time to show they’re still a force to be reckoned with.This is just me thinking out loud. The logic of the Ndhzengas being spared as they are the dominant males of the Kambula Pride only works if the Kambula males went to takeover their natal pride as opposed to the Ndhzengas going North themselves. Them going North is only a mistake if they split up and get caught, but possibly hearing 3 different coalitions with a total of 11 male lions roaring quite close to their territory enforces such a response. Also I think the confidence of the Kambula males is being over exaggerated, the only true fight they’ve had was against Nkuhuma Male and that was him trying to surrender to them while defending himself enough they let him escape with his life. If both Ndhzengas come across the 4 Kambula males, they’re going to be the aggressor hence them initially going North in the first place. I’m not counting that apparent scuffle with the BDMs, as it wasn’t witnessed and by the injuries received, it was hardly a fight. We don’t truly know how the Kambula males will react when it comes down to it. (12-15-2023, 11:23 PM)Mapokser Wrote: Kambulas are roaring claiming the land everyday, but it seems the BDM are not defending the territory from them. Apparently, since the first clash, the BDM are avoiding them. U could say the exact same thing about the Kambula males, if they did chase the BDMs like ppl seem to think, why wouldn’t they move into their prime territory and even seek out the Nkuhuma Pride. Instead they went East towards Nkorho and have just now returned to Chitwa Chitwa. Them seemingly keen on staying in the North is definitely an issue tho, it’s to the point where BDMs have to win the next encounters because u give the Kambula males confidence and watch how the dynamics change. Can’t remember who said it in here, but it was a message saying BDMs have to seriously hurt or even kill one of the Kambula males and at first I thought it was a bit too extreme, but rn it’s looking like they may have too.  
If the kambula males come across the kambula pride with he nwaswitshaka males the femaleS will attack the males the girls don’t know the intentions of the young males if they come to harm the nwaswitshakas they may come to harm the cubs and they will not let that happen so 2 nwaswitshakas plus 8 kambula girls I believe Just like the othawa make he was killed by both the Birmingham males and the females of the pride
@KM600 This is not like lion dynamics work, you either confront your challengers or go nomadic, especially while outnumbered.
Kambulas are roaring non-stop for days and days, every day we get a new video of them roaring in BDM territory, BDM are aware and do nothing to confront them, meaning they're done already, they don't currently own the territory. A male lion is only dominant as long as he can enforce his dominance in the territory, which is not what the BDM are doing, they've been ignoring rival roars for more than a week now. (12-16-2023, 01:21 AM)Mapokser Wrote: @Robot00 KYM may not attack their mothers and sisters if they meet and still recognize each other, but Ndhzengas aren't included in this, they'd show no mercy, for all they know, Ndhzengas are as much enemies as any other Young males very rarely overtake their natal prides, especially no as their first pride and from males that ousted them (its hard to find case when something like this happened). So Ndhzengas and Kambulas should be safe from them, for now atleast.
@Tr1x24 I'm not saying KYM will take their natal territory" I've been saying for a long time that they are avoiding their natal territory and unlikely the other duos, Ndhzengas are safe because of it.
I was just saying that if Ndhzengas go north and meet the KYM, the KYM won't see them as anything but enemies, instead of what it was claimed that they may not attack them because "they're the protectors of their natal pride". 
Sometimes coalitions that find themselves outnumbered just withdrawn from the area the challengers are in. This way they can still remain dominant for a while without challenging their invaders. Like the Birmingham Boys did when the Northern Avocas invaded. It may be that the BDM males are empoying a similar tactic.
Though in the long term its not a good strategy as the only way you can win if the enemy lions fall victim to illness or hunting accidents. Or if they give opportunities to take them out one by one. Eventually you will run out of land to retreat into. The pride is not going to accept any more loss of hunting grounds and you end up losing everything anyway. As for the Ndhzengas. A conflict should not be ruled out as they are still neighbouring coalitions. While a direct takeover of a pride is very unlikely to happen, conflicts over territory are still possible. And even if that does not happen, its not like they are going to greet eachother politely if they run into eachother.
Big difference is that Bboys and Avocas conflict was 2v2, anything can happen in a 2v2, they can compete for a long time by retreating today and maybe taking a more bold approach tomorrow. But when you're outnumbered you cannot show any weakeness, you must make the enemies think that you're strong enough even if you lack the numbers to compete evenly.
Ndhzengas just need to chill a bit more south, not venturing north of MalaMala and it is unlikely the KYM will put any pressure. But venturing north like they do against the BDM they may attract some border dispute. Thing is, instinctively, the KYM won't want to go south, at least as long as they have the memory that they were born there and the females there are related to them. (12-16-2023, 01:49 AM)Mapokser Wrote: @KM600 This is not like lion dynamics work, you either confront your challengers or go nomadic, especially while outnumbered. ‘They’re done already, they don’t currently own the territory’ if that’s true then neither do the Kambula males as they haven’t successfully ousted the BDMs either. The problem seems to be that the BDMs either can’t successfully oust the Kambula males or lack the experience to and the Kambula males aren’t willing to oust the BDMs which is prolly due to lack of experience. The only positive thing is the Nkuhuma Pride seems to accept the BDMs and they certainly won’t accept the Kambulas, best they could do is create a breakaway.
Kambula males in Northern Londolozi, their sister was near but not in the video.
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