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(05-16-2022, 01:20 AM)Duco Ndona Wrote: Nah. The Ravenscourt female was already part of the pride at that time.
The last Ravenscourt lioness joined the Ximungwe pride, and was thus a Ximungwe lioness? Historically, since the current, and last, Ximungwe lioness is the elder of the two, will Gingerella become a member of the Ximungwe pride, or will the two of them create a new pride? Both Ximungwe and Othawa prides could certainly use Gingerella right now. If they do still remain Ximungwe pride, what would happen if the current Ximungwe were to perish, would Gingerella become an Othawa Breakaway, or remain Ximungwe? So many interesting questions come out of this pairing, I am just trying to gather some historical context, as this clearly isn't the first time such a scenario has arisen.
(05-16-2022, 01:20 AM)Duco Ndona Wrote: Nah. The Ravenscourt female was already part of the pride at that time.
The last Ravenscourt lioness joined the Ximungwe pride, and was thus a Ximungwe lioness? Historically, since the current, and last, Ximungwe lioness is the elder of the two, will Gingerella become a member of the Ximungwe pride, or will the two of them create a new pride? Both Ximungwe and Othawa prides could certainly use Gingerella right now. If they do still remain Ximungwe pride, what would happen if the current Ximungwe were to perish, would Gingerella become an Othawa Breakaway, or remain Ximungwe? So many interesting questions come out of this pairing, I am just trying to gather some historical context, as this clearly isn't the first time such a scenario has arisen.
I remember I asked this question last year and most believe that Gingerella would simply become a member of the ximunghwe pride. And no new pride name would be used.
(05-16-2022, 12:37 AM)Duco Ndona Wrote: It was the Othawa pride. I don't know if the subadult was the current Ximhungwe lioness or one of the two that died however. Though at that time there was also a southern pride lioness that occasionally joined the prides.
I'm quite positive the accepted youngster later died.
(05-16-2022, 03:17 AM)criollo2mil Wrote: And no new pride name would be used.
New name for a pride in such case definitelly would have make sense. It is not like Othawa female is joining another pride, but two lone lionesses are joining the forces to form a group - pride.
(05-16-2022, 03:17 AM)criollo2mil Wrote: And no new pride name would be used.
New name for a pride in such case definitelly would have make sense. It is not like Othawa female is joining another pride, but two lone lionesses are joining the forces to form a group - pride.
I disagree….just cause she’s a lone lioness, Ximunghwe Carries the legacy of one of the most historic prides in sabi sands. Re-naming the Pride would in essence end the Ximunghwe name. Something that doesn’t make sense.
05-16-2022, 09:19 PM( This post was last modified: 05-16-2022, 09:20 PM by sik94 )
It should still be named the Ximingwe pride, Gingerella left her natal pride and would be forming a breakaway Ottawa pride anyway which would also get renamed at a later point. Since Gingerella is the 'nomadic' one, I see it as her joining the Ximungwe pride and not the other way around,
05-16-2022, 09:29 PM( This post was last modified: 05-16-2022, 09:32 PM by Potato )
(05-16-2022, 09:04 PM)criollo2mil Wrote: Re-naming the Pride would in essence end the Ximunghwe name
It wouldn't be renaming the pride - changing the name of already existing a pride, but naming a what it would be, a new pride. Such new pride would be just as much Ximinghwe pride as would be Othawa pride.
(05-16-2022, 09:04 PM)criollo2mil Wrote: I disagree….just cause she’s a lone lioness, Ximunghwe Carries the legacy of one of the most historic prides in sabi sands.
It is like we would refer to Mongowane males as "Birmingham males" just because we think Birmingham pride has longer/more impressive/or whatever else history than Torchwood pride.
Gingerella is joining the Ximhungwe pride which has seniority over her. She will be adapting to the life of the Ximhungwe lioness and in a few years it will be impossible to tell the two are from different prides. So the name should remain Ximhungwe.
There is also virtually zero chance of the name switching to Othawa as long the Othawa pride is around. Even if the Ximhungwe lioness were to die. So Should Gingerella survive to start a new pride. A new name would be in order.
In the case of the Birmingham Boys. It would be better to switch to a new coalition name. Its hard to see this as a continuation of the old coalitions and it would also avoid confusion if Nhenha were to die.
05-16-2022, 10:13 PM( This post was last modified: 05-16-2022, 10:52 PM by Tr1x24 )
It would be very wrong to "ditch" Ximhungwe pride name as 1 female of that pride is still alive. Gingerella is anyways a Othawas breakaways, who usually get different names, its not like she is last Othawa.
If Ximhungwe female manages to reestablish the pride with help of Gingerella, pride should continue to be called Ximhungwe.
If Ximhungwe female dies hoewer without leaving her legacy thru cubs, that means the end of Ximhungwe name.
Also theres a good chance if Ximhungwe gives birth soon, that 2 will split, maybe permanently.
So this discussion is uselles at this point, until we actually see if those 2 will be together when cubs came into picture.
(05-16-2022, 09:47 PM)Duco Ndona Wrote: Gingerella is joining the Ximhungwe pride which has seniority over her.
Both those females are fully independent and fully capable to feed for themselfs , there is no seniority in there, but partnership. Othawa female is not some sub adult trailing Ximunghwe lionesses in looking for protection and help. I do not see any reasoning behind claims that it is Othawa female who joins Ximunghwe lionesses and not the other way around.
(05-16-2022, 10:13 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote: It would be very wrong to "ditch" Ximhungwe pride name as 1 female of that pride is still alive.
It would be ditched only as a pride name as should be as this new unite would be half Ximunghwe, half Othawa pride. It wouldn't be ditched as name for indyvidual lionesses as this lionesses still would be refered to as Ximunghwe female. Also I do not see why ditching Ximunghwe pride is not ok while ditching orygins of Othawa breakaway female is full ok.
It would be reasonable to keep naming it Ximunghwe if Ximunghwe pride would make most of this new unite (pride) while in this case it would be just much as Ximunghwe as Othawa breakaway. It is exatly the same as it works with male lions coalitions. If two unrelated males joins up to form a coalition we do not ditch origins of any of the two, we do not for example insteed of call Thanda Impi males then just "Skorro males" just beacuse we think Skorro male is older/more dominant/ more impressive/ senior member/whatever else or because we think Skorro pride is better/has longer legacy/whatever else because it would be just simply falsifying reality. Legacy of Ximunghwe pride will remain exactly the same wether we would be naming this pride as Ximunghwe pride or with some other name.
Anyway in the end it will be come down to decision of guides of western sector however they will be calling this new potentiall pride.
(05-16-2022, 10:13 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote: Also theres a good chance if Ximhungwe gives birth soon, that 2 will split, maybe permanently.
She is supposed to give birth very soon for a long time already and no such think happens. In fact she is seen keeping on mating with males... I think it is very likely she is even not pregnant at all. Also even if she is I do not see why her giving birth would be a reason for her to stay away from the young Othawa female. In fact as both those females are at mating stage of their lifes and with Nkuchuma/Birmingham (or maybe should I just call them Birmingham males because Birmingham male is "senior member" in this coalition?) establishing themselfs as dominant males in the arena it is likely those two females will be spending their time around same arena with mentioned males is even if Ximunghwe famale would want to stay away from Othawa breakaway female it would be difficult to do so in practice.
05-16-2022, 11:32 PM( This post was last modified: 05-16-2022, 11:43 PM by sik94 )
(05-16-2022, 11:02 PM)Potato Wrote: Also I do not see why ditching Ximunghwe pride is not ok while ditching orygins of Othawa breakaway female is full ok.
Gingerella is a breakaway of the Ottawa pride, she's a nomad without an established pride at this point. The Ximungwe pride is an already established pride, the Ximungwe female will be the one accepting a nomadic lioness, not the other way around. The Ximungwe female has been in that area for a while and has a small territory, unlike Gingerella who has been all over the place looking to join a pride.
(05-16-2022, 11:02 PM)Potato Wrote: or maybe should I just call them Birmingham males because Birmingham male is "senior member" in this coalition
NYM/Nhena would have to be renamed because they are both nomads who joined up, just like BYM/TYM were renamed as a new coalition. It's not about seniority. Nomad+nomad = new coalition/pride name, nomad+established pride(even if it's the last living member of that pride) = name of the established pride should take precedence.
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