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Lions of Sabi Sands
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 (11-21-2020, 01:04 AM)Potato Wrote: "In fact a lot of young lions are growing in Sabi Sands." Those times where different.. When Mhangenis, Talamatis and Styx males reach "nomadic" phase.. All but south Sabi Sands was conquered by Majingilanes, Birmingham Boys and 2 monstruos S. Matimbas moving around, and theres no way they could beat them.. All of those young males moved towards south of Sabi Sands where lion coalitions where smaller/weaker and later on they moved further in Kruger, because they couldn't beat 2 powerful Charlestons even in the south.. In 1-2 years, when those Othawa, Kambula and Talamati yougster will reach nomadic phase, you will have 2 old Bboys, HB will prob be gone, Tumbelas will prob stay in the west, lone Othawa male and 3 split N. Avocas.. Those coalitions will be nowhere near the power of Majingilanes and Bboys.. So some of those youngsters could have a shot in central and northern Sabi Sands, while Nwaswitshaka will prob dominant south.. I know its unpossible to predict, some of them will prob gone to Kruger, but those youngsters will certaintly have better chances to stay in Sabi Sands then those before, because this days theres no big and powerful coalitions around.. Just look at Monwana and Xikukutsus males, they barely moved out of their natal areas and are dominant, because theres no big dominant coalitions around them.. 
You have nailed it my friend! Sabi Sands isn't the same area was once was now not are much strong coalitions to pressure those young males out of Sabi Sands during the Mapogo,Majingilane and Matimba era this was completely different. Those young males will were cornered by everywhere the only chance to survive was to go to Kruger.
Matimba male Hairy Belly and the Othawa pride first on the move at night at Idube Game Reserve, Western Sabi Sands, November 19, and then Othawa pride and Matimba male relaxing after a good meal at Idube Game Reserve, Western Sabi Sands, November 20.
(11-21-2020, 03:00 AM)Tr1x24 Wrote:OK, you say that those were different, exceptional situation, then let's make few more examples:(11-21-2020, 01:04 AM)Potato Wrote: "In fact a lot of young lions are growing in Sabi Sands." 1. Compare of 2012 to 2016: In 2012 we had 6 MAtimbas males rulling in the north (at that time still very united), 4 Salati males rulling western sector and Majingilanes ruling center part of SS. All those coalitions in 2012 were numerously, young, strong and looked unmovable for years to come. In the southern sector we had two masive Kruger males in charge and this is the only spot we could expect some changes at that point. From the upcomming (in years to come, not yet at the moment, same as now are mentioned by you Talamatis, Kambulas and so on) males we had: 3 males in Talamati pride, 3 in Fourways, 2 in Styx, 4(?) in Salati pride sire yet by Toulons, 4 in Sparta, 2 in Charleston and trio Solo/Cleo/Leo. Mhangenis in 2012 were just born so i do not count the. Also there were yet 2 remaining Mapogos in the arena, but obviously no one expected them to live much longer. Therefore what at that such circumstances we could expect male lion dynamic in Sabi Sands to look like in 2016? Matimbas, Salatis and Majingis on the same spot as in 2012 and in the south maybe 4 Sparta males as most numerously, or perhaps, Talamatis, Fourways or Solo/Leo/Cleo as older than other young males from same generation in SS? As we know male lion dynamic in 2016 looked totally different. There were Birmingham males (newcomers) ruling north, Majingilanes ruling west, center split between Southern Matimbas and Matshapiris (newcomers) and south rules by Charleston males. 2. Compare 2014 to 2018 In 2014 we've got Southern Matimbas ruling north and pushing further south into newly vacated by Majingi lands, for the Styx pride in particular. We had 4 Majingis just recently settled in the west, 3 Sand River males in the south and center was fairly vacate, up for new coalition to take. At that point there was quite a lot nomadic males stating to come at their own new or in near future: Mhangenis, Spartas, Talamatis, Charlestons, Fourways and Styx. I have no idea what could we expact in 2012, male lions dynamic in 2018 to look like, but what turned out to be in 2018 was definitelly not somethink we could expect in 2014. In 2018 we had Northern Avocas (newcomers) ruling in north, Birminghams (newcomers I think, by 2014 I believe they were still in the Timbavati and no1 expected them in 2014 to rule Sabi Sands in the future) in the center, Southern Matimbas and Othawa male (who did not even exist yet in 2014) rule west and Southern Avocas (newcomers) ruling in the south. I do not want to also write down comparison of 2016 to 2020 since most of us knows lion dynamic then and know that what is in 2020 couldn't be expected in 2016. This is why I say that talk about changes in lion dynamic in 4 years ahead are usseles as it is totally unpredictable. I would say even that half amount of that time (2 years a head) is very much unpredictable. Also I think thanks of that male lion dynamic are so interesting. (11-21-2020, 04:29 PM)Potato Wrote: I do not want to also write down comparison of 2016 to 2020 since most of us knows lion dynamic then and know that what is in 2020 couldn't be expected in 2016. This is why I say that talk about changes in lion dynamic in 4 years ahead are usseles as it is totally unpredictable. I would say even that half amount of that time (2 years a head) is very much unpredictable. Also I think thanks of that male lion dynamic are so interesting. I never talked about lion dynamics in 4 yrs, idk where you get that from.. I said in 1-2 yrs,when those youngsters become nomadic,they have a chance to take some areas in Sabi Sands..thats all..
Exactly @Tr1x24. We never were talking about lion dynamics since 2012 till 2020. we just have said that those young males will grew and probably settled up in Sabi Sands or went into Kruger. But the chances that they will stay in Sabi Sands could be more high now than in the past.
(11-21-2020, 04:38 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote:(11-21-2020, 04:29 PM)Potato Wrote: I do not want to also write down comparison of 2016 to 2020 since most of us knows lion dynamic then and know that what is in 2020 couldn't be expected in 2016. This is why I say that talk about changes in lion dynamic in 4 years ahead are usseles as it is totally unpredictable. I would say even that half amount of that time (2 years a head) is very much unpredictable. Also I think thanks of that male lion dynamic are so interesting. Kambulas and Talamatis are 2 years old, Othawa mlaes exept Junior even some months younger. If we talk about them conquering in the future then we talk of around 3 years ahead as most males are trying their first takeover at around 5 years old unlees they are lucky to find themselfs in vacated land or dominated by single male. Yeah I should have use in my post 3 years difference, but I do not think that is really changing much. 3 years ahead is still long enough to be very unpredictable. (11-21-2020, 05:03 PM)TinoArmando Wrote: Exactly @Tr1x24. We never were talking about lion dynamics since 2012 till 2020. we just have said that those young males will grew and probably settled up in Sabi Sands or went into Kruger. But the chances that they will stay in Sabi Sands could be more high now than in the past. What is the difference if we compare 2013 to 2016 or 2015 to 2018 or 2020 to 2023 or so on? You think now future will be more predictable than it was in the past? I do not think so at all. (11-21-2020, 05:06 PM)Potato Wrote:(11-21-2020, 05:03 PM)TinoArmando Wrote: Exactly @Tr1x24. We never were talking about lion dynamics since 2012 till 2020. we just have said that those young males will grew and probably settled up in Sabi Sands or went into Kruger. But the chances that they will stay in Sabi Sands could be more high now than in the past. Nobody is predicting anything lol, Just I've said that the chances of a young male who has born and grow in the Sabi Sands will has more chance to stay on his natal area than in another era where the competition was much high as well some big areas not are even explored by the dominant males of the area now (11-21-2020, 05:06 PM)Potato Wrote: What is the difference if we compare 2013 to 2016 or 2015 to 2018 or 2020 to 2023 or so on? You think now future will be more predictable than it was in the past? I do not think so at all I explained the difference few posts back, why this young males have better chances to stay in Sabi Sands then those before..
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To Be Alone . — Sometimes when you’re most alone, you’re not alone at all. — The Torchwood Male 
Is Hairy Belly the oldest Male Lion alive right now?
Discussions are already happening between Western sabisands rangers and Northern sabisands rangers. Talked to some of the rangers will follow on that.. Since Lions In Mara and other areas are treated by vets from diseases and serious injuries and as a result they survive and live long. In fact the vets do a great job and save so many Male Lions which we love soo much. But Lions in sabisands are not helped by vets and one of the Matimbas Ginger died due to a disease. So when accounting for the oldest Male Lion alive right now, Hairy Belly is currently the only male lion above 15 years old now. Although the age of the old Skybed male was never really confirmed but he is believed to have reached 16 years old. And in in May 2021, Hairy Belly might will his age if he survives that long.  (11-22-2020, 11:20 AM)Nathan Aiden Wrote: Is Hairy Belly the oldest Male Lion alive right now? The other members will certainly know better than I, but I know the recently passed Lolparpit and his brother are also quite old as well. Exactly how old I am unsure of.
Informative video that popped up in my yt feed. Some great information on the lion dynamics in Sabi Sands, and is a great resource for a quick run down on where all the prides and coalitions are currently at and what is going on with them, including numbers of cubs, pride condition, etc... One thing that it mentioned that was new to me, is that Tsalala female and her cub were within 100 yards of the Nkuhuma Pride, and neither pride knew the other was there. I keep hoping those two lionesses can pull out a miracle, and escape the massive pressure they are under from all sides. After what just happened to the Koppies, it instantly made me worry even more for these two, as well as the Ximungwe.
Olbarnoti, brother of Lolparpit (and Cheza, Sala, and Junior) was born in 2005 and is cucurrently one of, if not the oldest living male lion in the wild. It is documented in the Mara Predetor Project. Hairy Belly is close behind from what I read.
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