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Desert Lions
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cheecky jackal bites a Kalahari male lion's tail, and is escaping with just a few inches
I think the social life in pride, big or small, is a essentiel feature of the lion. I have read that american lions lived in small groups, the cave eurasian lions did so too when we discovered in dens some bones and skulls of male lions mixed with bones and skulls of cave bears, all of them exhibiting marks. The male lions entered the dens when the ursids were hibernating during the winter seasons in order to kill them after fierce battles. During ancient and cold periods, the scarcity of preys didn't allow to live in big prides, perhaps as the nowaday asiatic lions do. And perhaps too as concerns the Tsavo lions.
I also read that lions being social animals differences between males and females were more important compared to other felids, not only as concerns the size, but the existence of the mane, although reduced within the prehistoric species, as well. And concerning the prehistoric species these differences were bigger than those of big solitary felines like sabertooth cats or tigers. @GuateGojira: And yes you're right, the climatic factor constitutes the mean explanation concerning the expansion of the different species and subspecies of lions during periods. I tended to underestimate it.  (05-23-2015, 10:22 PM)'tigerluver' Wrote: Prey density in Gir is low compared to Africa, so that probably is exactly why Asiatic lions don't have a pride system. I'd predict that the desert lions also deal with food scarcity, I wonder how that has affected their social structure. They actually think that the terrain is the reason why pride life is not suited to the Gir. There are no open plains to track down prey, prey doesn't migrate the way it does in Africa and the Forest is suited to a more stalking style of hunt compared to divide and conquer. A large pride would create noise and give away position. At least that is the theory I hear most. 
Guys, Must watch tailor for all of you. I have never ever seen such a great tailor and I hope the Documentary will also we that great. Its hard work by Dr. Stander. And movie is supposed to be released July 2015.
Credit to FB page of Desert Lion (06-25-2015, 08:05 AM)'sanjay' Wrote: Guys, Must watch tailor for all of you. I have never ever seen such a great tailor and I hope the Documentary will also we that great. Its hard work by Dr. Stander. And movie is supposed to be released July 2015. Its a good doc, it came out in the states a while back. Weird that they don't release these doc world wide, but I guess they use different areas t test it. 
The Hobatere Lion Research Project
Check this new data from a study of lions in the Ethosa frontier. This are the lions of the Hobatere Concession Area (hereafter referred to as Hobatere), which lies adjacent to western Etosha, with the Hobatere lion population falling within the Etosha sub-population and in the medium to high density category. Check this map:  *This image is copyright of its original author The full article describe the entire study, and full with amazing pictures and what I always search, measurements and weights! Here is the page: http://africat.org/hobatere-lion-researc...-june-2015 Here is the table of the body measurements, check that only two animals were weighed, and the figures suggest lions of great body mass, although not very long. Warning, the shoulder height is also along the curves, so it is not an standing height. Check it out:  *This image is copyright of its original author Here are weighing the male lion:  *This image is copyright of its original author Here are measuring another one, along the curves:  *This image is copyright of its original author @GrizzlyClaws you love the canines, so here is the table about the canines of these lions. Check that the canine of 6 mm (at the gum line) of male Hpl-2 is a new record for wild lions. Here is the table:  *This image is copyright of its original author Here is the best image of the lion Hpl-2 upper canines.  *This image is copyright of its original author Here is another report from three of those specimens, this time from the Etendeka Concession, Omatendeka Conservancy, Kunene Region, always in Namibia, all adults. Check this fully grow male:  *This image is copyright of its original author Here is the web page: http://africat.org/africat-lion-research...t-expanded Here is the article with the measurements (no weights, sadly) of the three specimens: http://www.africat.org/images/koolfish_u...report.pdf Interestingly how they have survived in this harsh terrain, sacrificing size for efficiency. Hope you like it, and add it to your data bases. Greetings to all. 
I think it should be 60 mm or 6 cm.
And the right one is fact the left one. PS, HPL-5 got a huge head, and his skull probably measures about 45-46 cm.
Yes, it is 6 cm, jajajajaja, sorry I miss the "c" for the "m".
 : Those lions have huge heads, but remember that they are been measured over curves, so it is probably that the real head-length would be much smaller. In this animals, skulls of 360-380 mm will be more common, figures of 420 mm came only from the largest males in East and South Africa and over 450 mm came only from Pleistocene lion-like cats.
Even the measurement was over the curve, the skull of HPL-5 would still be huge around 16-17 inches, but ironically his canine teeth are still smaller than a lion with a much smaller skull.
This is the head of Hpl-5:
 *This image is copyright of its original author This is its entire body (the male):  *This image is copyright of its original author I don't see any exceptional on it, so I guess that the measurement was probably incorrect in some form. That is why measurements over curves are so problematic. Such a young male with that canine size probably have a skull of 36-37 cm long, not more. (05-23-2015, 07:25 PM)Pantherinae Wrote: @GuateGojira if I'm not wrong here there where places where the tiger disapared and lions did not. Would have problems to think tigers would force away lions, not because lions are a stronger animal, but the fact that lions are living in groups. yes I know asiatic lions does not live such close to each other as their African cousins. And the prides lives more spread from each other, but I think that if tigers posed a threat to lone lions. the prides would gather and no other carnivore stands a chance against a lion pride. In fact, I had not say, nor implied, that tigers dispersed lions from India, I only mentioned that some people think so. My new personal idea is that climate is the true responsible of the nearly-extinction of the lions in India, or at least, the first contributor, with the humans been the second and final factor. I am not aware of any part of India were tigers disappeared and lions thrived. In fact, it was the contrary. However, this is because lions were "older" in India, thanks to its dry climate until the beginning of the Holocene and the end of the last ice age. At this moment, India became the rich country, full of great jungles, that we now know, but this new territory was not suitable for the lions. Tiger, on the other hand, are tied to forest and water sources and manged to invade all the Indian subcontinent up to the Rajasthan dry forests but never lived in the dry areas of Kathiawar, and surely never in the Gir area. This dry forests are the last of the ancient lion habitat that covered the entire India, before the Holocene. I hope this clarify my point, climate, not intraespecific fights, were the real responsible for changes in India prior the human intervention. :neutral-fill: Just a side point, it is interesting that there is not a single story, poem, draw or anything about a lion vs tiger account in India, until the arrival of the British (the Mahabharata and the Ramayana mentions tigers fighting against other tigers, but tigers and lions in combat with one another are not mentioned). It seems that tigers and lions managed to live without conflicts and had a perfectly well separated habitat. It was the humans and they lust for fights, that had put them in conflict, and only in human-made areas. Nature is not as sick as the human mind.
Great find
*This image is copyright of its original author Volkel is a big lion. Could quite possibly be 225kg +
Yes, with a chest girth of 148 cm, the male HPL-2 "Volkel" is a perfect candidate for a very heavy lion. In fact, it had the largest chest girth that I have ever saw in modern documents about the size of the lion.
Interestingly, its head and body length is of just 182 cm "along the curves", which shows that the great cats don't need to be very long for been very heavy. It real shoulder height could be about 100-105 cm in straight line. The figure presented in the table is from the shoulder to the tip of the paw.
Volkel is the longest lion, largest girth, largest head and 2nd tallest at the shoulder. No matter how you want to correlate mass, hes a big lion.
Wish we got a body weight so we could see what size he is working with. |
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