Comparing Cats: A Discussion of Similarities & Differences

[Pckts]

(03-16-2022, 05:02 PM)SpinoRex Wrote:

(03-16-2022, 02:57 AM)GuateGojira Wrote:

(03-15-2022, 11:48 PM)SpinoRex Wrote: For some "basic" things i cant find studies but i am 100% sure it is like that. Dr Dale Miquelle said it as well. As i said it already...  i think i will contact him to be sure. But for what tigers should have straighter and "smaller" collar bones? It must have to do with flexibility. All in all i would say tigers have a bit smaller collar bones and lions bigger ones. Although the difference isnt big i think (but it is def big compared to other body part differences)

But found this here: 
https://books.google.com/books?id=szBm5k...3F&f=false

Thank you for the quote of Brakefield. However my question was not about tiger and lion collarbones. Check the post again, I am asking about this that you said:

"The clavicle, also known as collar bone or clavicula is the bone that connects rib cage and arm (from Sternum to Scapula), serving as strut. The Deltoid, the Trapezius, the Pectoralis Major as well as several muscles of the throat are attached to it. Bigger muscles attached to the clavicle necessitate overall larger clavicle size which will, in return, limit flexibility of the arm. That means strength and flexibility of the arms develop inversely and that animals with larger clavicles likely have stronger pectorals and shoulders while animals with smaller clavicles are more flexible."

Because what Brakefiled says in the book that you quote contradict this, as horses had huge chests and pectorals but they lack collarbones. So, reduction of collarbone may be related with something more than just cursorial life, after all lions are more cursorial than tigers, apparently.

Other point, you mention this series of muscles attached to the clavicle and I will like to see your source for this claim, because from the images that I have saw, collarbone is attach only to two muscles:

*This image is copyright of its original author

This from an ocelote

Now, this from a domestic cat (sorry for the low resolution, but you can see the clavicle area):

*This image is copyright of its original author

If that is the case, the size of the clavicle do not means more strength, which the article that you originally posted do not suggested, but is more related with flexibility, but just that.

Then it would mean the lion has the larger muscle in that areas. (I see no reason to develope a larger collar bone by just reducing flexibility). The flexibility comes with the size of the collar bone... though as i said before some questioned the size datas. Therefore i used mainly the curve and robustness as a argument, which means even guessing the collar bones are similar in size... the lion would be stronger. Also collar bone isnt the only factor.... so ther animals might have big chests.

The options i see here are;

1. Lions developed larger and stronger collar bones
2. Lions developed stronger collar bones (by guessing there isnt a size difference)

About the clavicle here are some infos (These are just the muscles... the clavicle bone might have other functions as well)

Quote:The clavotrapezius arises from the back of the skull and middorsal line of the neck and inserts on the clavicle.  Its action is to extend the humerus in a forward direction.  The acromiotrapezius (which arises on the middorsal line of the neck and thorax and inserts on the metacromion and spine of the scapula) adducts the scapula.  The spinotrapezius arises from the spinous processes of thoracic vertebrae and inserts on the fascia covering the scapular muscles.  Its action is to adduct the scapula and pull it posteriorly.  The major muscle group of the shoulder is the deltoid group.  The clavodeltoid originates from the clavicle and inserts on the ulna.  This muscle flexes the forearm.  The acromiodeltoid lies posterior to the clavodeltoid.  It arises from the acromion process of the scapula and inserts on the spinodeltoid muscle. 

http://bioweb.uwlax.edu/APlab/Lab-Unit-2...0direction.

That with the curve is pretty evident. But would like to see some datas about the clavicle length.

Also lions are build pretty much like forest cats with really minor cursorial adaptions but maintaning the overall "strength". Lions may be more cursorial than tigers but they arent cursorial cats as their limbs are pretty normal for forest dwelling cats. (Yamaguchi)

You literally have chest measurements available, obviously either collar bones don’t contribute to a larger chest in panthera, Tigers collar bones are as large or larger than Lions or the sample size is far small to make any conclusions. 

First it was the Humerus and now it’s the collar bone after the humerus showed favor to the Tiger. Instead of looking for tiny advantages in the smallest and imperfect samples, what you/we should take from this is that the body works as a whole, deficits or advantages we interpret may not work that way in these cats.

For me at least when it comes to tigers it seems pretty simple, Tigers longer hind legs need a long stride but being a solitary hunter and forest dweller they don’t need sustained speed, just a quick burst with good agility then the tools to bring down large prey. Which is why they’re far better grapplers than chasers. Reply