Comparing Cats: A Discussion of Similarities & Differences

[Shadow]

(09-18-2020, 05:13 PM)Balam Wrote: @Shadow the debate is not about which one is bigger, because in that area there is nothing to debate. The same way we don't debate which one is bigger between a Bengal tiger and a jaguar. The implications are that leopards can grow the average size of Pantanal jaguars, which is something completely unfounded, and so one side has decided to purposely misrepresent and omit data to their liking to reduce the size of jaguars and exaggerate the ones for leopards to put them in the same weight/size class. 

The post before you kept insisting on the 115 kg leopard that was disproven by the people who had control of said leopard up untill it was put down, yet for claims such as the 180 kg jaguars or 120 kg cougar records everyone has no problem agreeing that they are unlikely. And the only difference between the jaguar and cougar records and the one of the leopard, is that the latter one has already been pointed out as incorrect.

Furthermore, the misrepresentation of the work that we have done on here implying that our research consists of lazy "IG post" compilations when the other side has no problem using that same platform to post weights for leopards on their thread is what's infuriating. Especially when they themselves utilize self-made skull tables to justify their claims for Central African leopards.

I have no problem with sound debate, but I'm not gonna sit back and allow others to lie and misrepresent what we have done on here only because they can't come to terms with the reality that leopards and jaguars are not the same animal nor do they belong in the same weight/size class.

You make your point clear in this last posting and also you tell why. That´s ok and how things are preferred here. It´s understandable that emotions are present when there is a lot of interest towards something.

Sometimes it´s good to breath a few times and count to 10 or 100 before writing ;

This discussion has provided good information to all people who are interested. Naturally there´s some "gray area" when information has been obtained from many places and no new studies published lately. It creates a good platform for debates. Problems come usually, when people get offended and then feelings heat up, more or less.

Average weight of jaguars is somewhat debatable even though information which you and some other posters have provided gives a strong base to say, that Pantanal jaguars are nowadays bigger than for instance 30 years ago. And when in past their average weight was over 90 kg for males, naturally the chance to see a leopard which would be the size of an average Pantanal jaguar is slim. It can be speculated though a bit, because after all average size of Pantanal jaguar haven´t been stated lately in any study.

If that average weight for males is really around 115 kg, it´s quite safe to say that no leopard reach such weight. Or if, then we would be talking about "once in a lifetime" leopard, some huge freak of nature among leopards.

If average weight would be around 100 kg for Pantanal jaguars, then chances would be a bit better, but still that big leopard would be a record breaker, not likely something what could be seen every now and then. Obviously, because I don´t remember any 100 kg leopard ever, which would be reliable. But I personally can´t rule out the possibility, that one could be out there. There is so little information about some leopard populations like Gabonese Basin.

When we discuss here, some level of disagreements has to be tolerated and understood. While overall size of jaguars and leopards isn´t debatable since there is no contest, there is room for some speculation for it, that how big the biggest leopards can be. If not starting to go too much "over the top". Reply