There is a world somewhere between reality and fiction. Although ignored by many, it is very real and so are those living in it. This forum is about the natural world. Here, wild animals will be heard and respected. The forum offers a glimpse into an unknown world as well as a room with a view on the present and the future. Anyone able to speak on behalf of those living in the emerald forest and the deep blue sea is invited to join.
Nobody talking about the new white cub seen around Orpen~Satara, probably from the Skorro pride, sired by Mongawane males?
There's a pic of him, but I didn't save it.
That puts the number of wild white lions at 6. Casper, 1/2 Birmingham males, Birmingham female, Birmingham cub, Black Dam cub, and now this Skorro cub.
Pretty cool after the death of the white male cub from the Birmingham white female.
It's pretty obvious that the Mongawane got their white gene from the Birmingham pride, but how about the Skorro lioness? I remember reading the possibility of the Skorro pride being a Birmingham Breakaway due to Bus being seen with the pride ( dunno if it's true ), but there's also the fact the N.Matimba fathered cubs there, maybe the 9 Skybeds too? And did the Orpen males sired any daughters there as well? Many possibilities for how they got white genes on their bloodline.
There's the Mbiri males as well, but I'm not sure any of their daughters is currently with the pride, but any would be an adult by now.
(02-14-2025, 05:51 AM)Mapokser Wrote: Nobody talking about the new white cub seen around Orpen~Satara, probably from the Skorro pride, sired by Mongawane males?
There's a pic of him, but I didn't save it.
That puts the number of wild white lions at 6. Casper, 1/2 Birmingham males, Birmingham female, Birmingham cub, Black Dam cub, and now this Skorro cub.
Pretty cool after the death of the white male cub from the Birmingham white female.
It's pretty obvious that the Mongawane got their white gene from the Birmingham pride, but how about the Skorro lioness? I remember reading the possibility of the Skorro pride being a Birmingham Breakaway due to Bus being seen with the pride ( dunno if it's true ), but there's also the fact the N.Matimba fathered cubs there, maybe the 9 Skybeds too? And did the Orpen males sired any daughters there as well? Many possibilities for how they got white genes on their bloodline.
There's the Mbiri males as well, but I'm not sure any of their daughters is currently with the pride, but any would be an adult by now.
Saw it yesterday and forgot to share it. I believe it's still unknown on which pride or coalition it's from so I'll just post here for the time being. Moderators feel free to move it once an identification is positively made.
(02-14-2025, 05:51 AM)Mapokser Wrote: It's pretty obvious that the Mongawane got their white gene from the Birmingham pride
He could get white gene from Avoca/Giraffe coalition just as well.
(02-14-2025, 05:51 AM)Mapokser Wrote: but how about the Skorro liones
Well... If Mbiri males carries white genes, I believe they must have gotten it from Matimba males and Matimba males ussed to be dominant males of Skorro pride. On top of the Skorro pride was ruled by their son (Junior Nkuchuma the Orpen male) as well as by two Mbiri males themselfs who are comfirmed to carry white gene.
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02-14-2025, 05:18 PM( This post was last modified: 02-14-2025, 05:23 PM by Tr1x24 )
(02-14-2025, 05:51 AM)Mapokser Wrote: It's pretty obvious that the Mongawane got their white gene from the Birmingham pride, but how about the Skorro lioness? I remember reading the possibility of the Skorro pride being a Birmingham Breakaway due to Bus being seen with the pride ( dunno if it's true ), but there's also the fact the N.Matimba fathered cubs there, maybe the 9 Skybeds too? And did the Orpen males sired any daughters there as well? Many possibilities for how they got white genes on their bloodline.
N.Matimbas and Mbiris have white genes, most of adult lionesses in Skorro pride are their offspring.
Not sure if any Orpen males daughters returned nbck to the pride, but even they prob have white gene as Junior Matimbas prob has it, most likely Buddy aswell as (imo) he is Skybed lineage.
Skorro pride might have that gene from the generations back aswell, as they are in the area where that gene is normal.
02-14-2025, 06:25 PM( This post was last modified: 02-14-2025, 08:10 PM by sunless )
It is confirmed by the people who sighted them that they are in the area where the Skorro Pride resides.
Also in the side of the Mongawane Males both males and not only 1 males have the chance they father the cubs as both males comes from the Timbavati Lineage where Torchwood Male father is Nhenha a Birmingham Male while her mother if I remember correctly is a daughter of the Matimbas. For Osindile his mother is a Birmingham while his father is a Giraffe Males.
For the Skorro Pride I think almost all their past dominant pride males have the recessive gene like the Mbiri Males, Junior Nkuhuma & Orpen Male, Matimbas. Also historically Skorro lioness had been quite pale compared to others.
In total we have 6 white lions alive right now in the Greater Kruger, shame that the white male cub of the Mbiri Males disappeared.
02-14-2025, 09:37 PM( This post was last modified: 02-14-2025, 10:12 PM by sunless )
(02-14-2025, 08:50 PM)Mapokser Wrote: Does being pale hints at the likehood of carrying the white gene tho?
Ntsevu K6 is pale, but she doesn't have it, Scar Mbiri is dark, but he does.
I think so yes as reading information online I saw is that the paleness can correlate to the creation of a white cub and producing white lions is that both parents needs to have both genes, but if I remember correctly the original Skorro female is quite pale and just thought to mention it.
Here are some info I saw:
The paleness of a lion's fur can correlate with the ability to produce white cubs, but this is dependent on the presence of specific recessive genes. If both parents carry the recessive gene for white fur, there is a 25% chance that their offspring will be white lions. White lions are not albinos; their coloration is due to leucism, a condition where there is a partial or total lack of pigmentation in the fur, but not in the eyes, nose, or other features. This means that even if a lion appears pale, it does not necessarily mean it can produce white cubs unless it carries the recessive gene. In populations where the white lion gene is present, paler individuals may indicate a higher likelihood of carrying the gene, but paleness alone does not guarantee white cub production.
02-14-2025, 10:07 PM( This post was last modified: 02-14-2025, 10:08 PM by sunless )
(02-14-2025, 09:37 PM)sunless Wrote:
(02-14-2025, 08:50 PM)Mapokser Wrote: Does being pale hints at the likehood of carrying the white gene tho?
Ntsevu K6 is pale, but she doesn't have it, Scar Mbiri is dark, but he does.
Maybe yes or maybe not as reading information online I saw is that the paleness can correlate to the creation of a white cub and producing white lions is that both parents needs to have both genes, but if I remember correctly the original Skorro female is quite pale and just thought to mention it.
Here are some info I saw:
The paleness of a lion's fur can correlate with the ability to produce white cubs, but this is dependent on the presence of specific recessive genes. If both parents carry the recessive gene for white fur, there is a 25% chance that their offspring will be white lions. White lions are not albinos; their coloration is due to leucism, a condition where there is a partial or total lack of pigmentation in the fur, but not in the eyes, nose, or other features. This means that even if a lion appears pale, it does not necessarily mean it can produce white cubs unless it carries the recessive gene. In populations where the white lion gene is present, paler individuals may indicate a higher likelihood of carrying the gene, but paleness alone does not guarantee white cub production.
Here is an added answer from the great chatgpt LOL.
The paleness of a tawny-colored lion does not necessarily indicate a higher chance of producing white cubs. However, in some cases, it could be a subtle hint that the lion carries the recessive TYR gene responsible for white lions. Here's why:
1. Recessive Gene Requirement – White lions are the result of a recessive mutation in the TYR gene. A lion must inherit two copies of this gene (one from each parent) to be born white.
2. Carrier Status Is Key – A lion with a slightly paler coat may or may not be a carrier of the recessive white gene. Even lions with a normal tawny coat can carry the gene without visible signs.
3. Paleness ≠ Direct Genetic Indicator – While some lions with paler coats might be more likely to carry the gene (due to shared ancestry with white lions), paleness itself is not a reliable predictor. Genetic testing is the only definitive way to confirm if a lion carries the gene.
4. Breeding in White Lion Populations – In areas where white lions occur naturally (like Timbavati, South Africa), tawny lions in the population may have a higher chance of carrying the gene. If a pale tawny lion comes from a lineage with white lions, it could have a slightly higher chance of producing white cubs.
Conclusion:
While paleness in a tawny lion might suggest a higher probability of carrying the white lion gene, it is not a guaranteed indicator. The only sure way to determine if a lion can produce white offspring is genetic testing or knowing the lion’s lineage.
(02-14-2025, 08:50 PM)Mapokser Wrote: Does being pale hints at the likehood of carrying the white gene tho?
Ntsevu K6 is pale, but she doesn't have it, Scar Mbiri is dark, but he does.
It's a recessive gene and both parents must have it for it to show. Nothing to do with how pale or dark the parents are. Even if one of the parents is a white lion themself, they won't produce white lions unless both parents have the gene.
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(02-14-2025, 08:50 PM)Mapokser Wrote: Scar Mbiri is dark, but he does.
Acctually we do not know that. We know that at least one of the Mbiri males carry white gene, but in fact could be that it is just Shaka that carries it.
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