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Lycaon · 09-20-2019, 12:28 PM

Wild N Wings

The King! ??

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Lycaon · 09-23-2019, 11:35 AM

Big male

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GuateGojira · 09-24-2019, 09:19 PM

(09-03-2019, 06:11 AM)GuateGojira Wrote: However, surfing the web I found this document thatn changed all: "Asiatic Lion: Ecology, Economics, and Politics of Conservation" - Yadvendradev V. Jhala et al. (2019).

Link: https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10....y-material

This document not only have one of the most compreensive summary of information about the Indian lion in modern and old history, but also is the FIRST document, as far I know, that actually have the body measurements and weights from adult Indian lions!!! So, here is the information:

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I think that this is more than enough to see that Indian lions are long but not as heavy as some people calculate based in pictures. Measurements were taken "along the curves", but I suspect that they pressed the tape like with the Amur tigers, as a lion with a head-body length of 204 cm (M6) weighs only 160 kg. Compare these measurements with those taken "between pegs" in my table.

Interesting as it is, this documents provides much more information about this animal, and I think that many people here will be happy to discuss it and to learn more about this incredible animal, a relic from a past that no longer exist.

I checked again the measurements of these Indian lions and I go this:

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Certainly these lions were measured along the curves, and probably presing the tape as a lion of 204 cm in head body can't weight only 160 kg, it will look like a cheetah, so probably its real length was about 190-194 cm and even then is still lanky. Please take in count that the lions captured were healty adults.

Now, my concern is with lioness F3 as her length is weird, I mean, her head-body is of 209 cm, bigger than any male lion in the region! I am 100% sure that there is an error there and I guess that probably the real total length is of 239 cm, which will produce a head-body of 159 cm, more in the line with the other females.

I will try to contact the authors, but just in case, @Rishi, can you try to contact Dr Jhala about this? I think that he will be more willing to answer to you as you allready contacted him previously.

Let's see if we can clarify this point.

Lycaon · 09-25-2019, 12:53 PM

Maharshi PATEL

Hey meet Bhuryo. He is 3 year old male lion in Sasan gir forest.

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Lycaon · 09-26-2019, 05:34 PM

Abilash Vaja

Fearless fellow

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Sanju · 09-27-2019, 02:07 PM

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@PayalPatelJunagadh
Fb
જુનાગઢના હોય તો આ પેજ લાઈક, ફોલો અને શેર કરો - Junagadh

Lycaon · 09-27-2019, 06:29 PM

Lioness with nilgai I think.

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Lycaon · 09-28-2019, 10:49 PM

Jignesh Gondaliya‎

Sultan..

Gir Forest National Park.

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Lycaon · 10-03-2019, 04:10 PM

Jigar Pandya

The God himself in Narsinh Avtaar.

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Lycaon · 10-04-2019, 05:33 PM

Dominique Payannet

impressive male

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~~lionjaguar~~ · 10-04-2019, 10:36 PM

Asiatic lions are smaller than African lions. What about lions lived in other Asia? Lions in Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq, Turkey, Israel, and other Asian countries. As far as I know, Iraq has swamp region name, Mesopotamian Marshes map. It is similar to Okavango delta, Los Llanos, Sudd, and Pantanal. Or what about European lions lived in Greece or southern Balkan until Roman killed them all.

Rishi · 10-05-2019, 10:54 AM

(10-04-2019, 10:36 PM)lionjaguar Wrote: Asiatic lions are smaller than African lions. What about lions lived in other Asia? Lions in Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq, Turkey, Israel, and other Asian countries. As far as I know, Iraq has swamp region name, Mesopotamian Marshes map. It is similar to Okavango delta, Los Llanos, Sudd, and Pantanal. Or what about European lions lived in Greece or southern Balkan until Roman killed them all.

Well, I've read lions of Afghanistan & Balochistan being described by British officers as smaller, than the ones in Indo-Gangetic plains.
I think they were about Gir lions in size & belonged to adjoining populations... The lions living up northeast may have become larger after coming in contact with tigers. Any lion's progeny weighing below 180kg would be at survival disadvantage against them & eventually die out with time.

Also, those parts had much larger prey in higher numbers before being almost completely replaced by cultivated croplands in last 2 centuries. But back then; imagine a grassland-forest mosaic of various height & density, like those in remaining Terai, sightly drier at the south though.

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BorneanTiger · 10-05-2019, 10:17 PM

(10-05-2019, 10:54 AM)Rishi Wrote:
(10-04-2019, 10:36 PM)lionjaguar Wrote: Asiatic lions are smaller than African lions. What about lions lived in other Asia? Lions in Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq, Turkey, Israel, and other Asian countries. As far as I know, Iraq has swamp region name, Mesopotamian Marshes map. It is similar to Okavango delta, Los Llanos, Sudd, and Pantanal. Or what about European lions lived in Greece or southern Balkan until Roman killed them all.

Well, I've read lions of Afghanistan & Balochistan being described by British officers as smaller, than the ones in Indo-Gangetic plains.
I think they were about Gir lions in size & belonged to adjoining populations... The lions living up northeast could have become larger after coming in contact with tigers. Most lions weighing below 180kg would have eventually died out in time.

Also, those parts had much larger prey in higher numbers before being almost completely replaced by cultivated croplands in last 2 centuries. But bank them; imagine a grassland-forest mosaic of various height & density, like those remaining in Terai, sightly drier towards the south.

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We have accounts of large Asiatic lions in the past, even outside their current range in the Indian State of Gujarat:

- Circa 1620, Mughal Emperor Jehangir reportedly speared a lion in western India measuring 10 feet 3 inches (about 3.1 m) in length, and weighed about 306 kg (674.6 lbs): https://books.google.com/books?id=szBm5k...ir&f=false

- "Unusually large" Persian lion with melanistic patches in Khuzestan, 1841: https://archive.org/stream/journalofbomb...ally+large

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- "Large, stocky, light tawny" lion eating a goat near Quetta, present-day Pakistan (then still part of India), alleged by a British Admiral travelling by train with 2 accomplices in 1935: https://books.google.com/books?id=4eTaAA...sc=y&hl=en, http://carnivoractionplans1.free.fr/wild...df#page=62

There are also some interesting descriptions of both African and Eurasian lions from these encyclopædias from the 19th century: https://books.google.a/books?id=TX7BmPgL...&q&f=false, https://books.google.com/books?id=GWslAA...on&f=false