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Asiatic Lion - Data, Pictures & Videos
Asiatic Lion - Data, Pictures & Videos
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Asiatic Lion - Data, Pictures & Videos
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 (10-14-2019, 11:41 PM)lionjaguar Wrote: I was referring to lions lived in only in central India. Asiatic lions lived in the central India weighed 177 kg? With only two lions recorded in Central India, will be highly unreliable to estimate an average. The figure of 255 kg from 1623 is still in doubt and Jahangir, which killed many lions, clearly said that he noted that "in his entire hunting career he had not come cross such a large, magnificent, or well proportionated animal" (Divyabhanusinh, 2005), which shows that it was an exceptional specimen. The male of 222 kg (estimated at c.240 kg with its entrails) will be big but not exceptional compared with the tigers in the area or the lions in Africa. So, based in the avialable data, we can't conclude that they were larger than the tigers, and in fact about the same size than some African populations. I have not saw any statement of Dr Craig Packer saying that the lions will dominate for fighting experiencies in India. I think that you are tryign to bring the "lion vs tiger" issue here, and that will be VERY SILLY. All the lions in the entire Asian area were overhunted, there is no mystery. Besides, the populations in the desertic areas were probably not as high as we may thinkg. In fact, the reason why the old tales speak of lion attacks may be explained by the fact that lions lived near the human settelments searching for food in arid areas. So, no big mystery at the end, just human intervention and probably also climate change, we can't exclude it.  (10-15-2019, 12:04 AM)GuateGojira Wrote:(10-14-2019, 11:41 PM)lionjaguar Wrote: I was referring to lions lived in only in central India. Asiatic lions lived in the central India weighed 177 kg? The lion killed by Jahangir, wasn't it 647.6 lbs? You only have one available data besides lions of Jahangir? We won't know if the central Indian lions were the same size as today's Asiatic lion or African lion. I am not bring up that silly topic. I said the dominant and outcome of competition in wild. Dr Craig Packer or his fallow researchers definitely said it if you look up their websites. Climate change. Yes, that was the answer I was looking for. Problem is there is no written records of how did lions go extinct in the Middle East. Middle East is not always desert areas. My grandma was from swampy areas of the Middle East. (10-15-2019, 01:57 AM)lionjaguar Wrote: The lion killed by Jahangir, wasn't it 647.6 lbs? You only have one available data besides lions of Jahangir? We won't know if the central Indian lions were the same size as today's Asiatic lion or African lion. The lion of Jahangir was of eight and a half Jahangiri maunds or 255 kilograms (1 Jahangir maund = 30.10 kilograms), this is stated by Divyabhanusinh (2005), argubliy the best sources for information on the Asian lion (not only India). About weights, we can speculate if you want, but base on the pictures, I will dare to say that the lions from that area were as large as any lion in these days. Please you need to understand that I am not saying that ALL the lions in that area weighed 250 kg, by no means. They were probably like any average lion at about 170-180 kg but certainly they were smaller than the tigers that same area. Skull wise, again the information is limited but suggest smaller sizes than tigers and similar to the present lions in West Africa and, of course, Gir. But I guess that is a matter of interpretation. About competition, there are many factors that affect, I already quoted the conclusion of the experts about the relation of these cats in India. I did not say that ALL middle east was a desert, I said "in the desert areas". Please read again. (10-15-2019, 02:26 AM)GuateGojira Wrote:(10-15-2019, 01:57 AM)lionjaguar Wrote: The lion killed by Jahangir, wasn't it 647.6 lbs? You only have one available data besides lions of Jahangir? We won't know if the central Indian lions were the same size as today's Asiatic lion or African lion. Divyabhanusinh ever written about lions in the central India and how did they go extinct in the Middle East? In the end, your conclusion on lions lived in the central India is just an opinion. No one will ever know. We could guess that they were bigger than Gir's lions since it had larger prey. (10-15-2019, 02:33 AM)lionjaguar Wrote: Divyabhanusinh ever written about lions in the central India and how did they go extinct in the Middle East? In the end, your conclusion on lions lived in the central India is just an opinion. No one will ever know. We could guess that they were bigger than Gir's lions since it had larger prey. That is also an opinion, guessing that the lions in Central India were larger just for prey base. About Divyabhanusinh, he just mention that hunting was the reason, he don't go into details but the information that he used is very especific. Also the book of Valmik Thapar "Exotic Aliens" is a good source, and although his conclution that lions at India came from Mozambique is completelly incorrect, is a good source about all the hunting records and how the lion vanished from many parts of India. (10-15-2019, 02:37 AM)GuateGojira Wrote:(10-15-2019, 02:33 AM)lionjaguar Wrote: Divyabhanusinh ever written about lions in the central India and how did they go extinct in the Middle East? In the end, your conclusion on lions lived in the central India is just an opinion. No one will ever know. We could guess that they were bigger than Gir's lions since it had larger prey. My biggest question was why did the lion die out in the Middle East. My Moroccan friend said Barbary lions were extinct by French military during the 19th century. I believe lions would still have gone extinct even if they survived in North Africa. I think the case of the Middle East was more complex.  (10-14-2019, 11:41 PM)lionjaguar Wrote: I think there is more than overhunting of the species. It is true that lions were gone in India due to overhunting by British and Indian royals. My statement was lions lived in Middle East, Iran to Turkey or Sinai Peninsula. It's both over-hunting & habitat loss. Unlike Bengal tigers who held on to their forested hills, lions & Caspian tigers lost almost all of their plain's grassland/woodland to agriculture. In India, in Egypt, in most of Mesopotamia. Lions held on in India, but in Middle East & North-Africa there's mostly deserts outside the occasional fertile valleys & river basins. Deserts of Sahara or Sinai or Syria wouldn't sustain a vibrant lion population & they went regionally extinct easily over the ages. Source: The Impact of Land Cover and Land Use Change on the Indian Monsoon Region Hydroclimate  *This image is copyright of its original author Then that whole area between India & Libya has historically been the largest stretch of land with most human interference. It has been world's largest cradle of civilisation & has seen most wars, empires, trade, invasions, genocides, migrations etc. Lion numbers fell gradually over last 2-4 centuries with rise in use of gunpowder weapons since 1500s. Compared to that sub-Saharan Africa's lions had it way easier, in the remote habitat of their sparsely populated continent facing minimal threat from civilisation until mid-19th century. (09-03-2019, 11:33 AM)BorneanTiger Wrote:(09-03-2019, 06:11 AM)GuateGojira Wrote: Body size of Indian lion - modern records: As mentioned here, I discovered something about Eram Zoo in Tehran, where Iran brought a pair of Indian lions from Europe in a bid to reintroduce Asiatic lions. The zoo was founded in the 19th century by the Qajari Shah Naser Ad-Din, who had a collection of 4 male and female Persian lions from the Zagros Mountains near Shiraz, besides other animals, judging by this Farsi website of Animal Rights Watch. And I'd like to mention that Naser Ad-Din was the predecessor of Mozaffar Ad-Din, during whose reign Britain's King Edward VII brought Shirea the Persian lioness to Dublin in 1902.
134 booked for illegal lion shows in 4 years
Ahmedabad Mirror Local television journalist, his cameraman and four others were arrested for illegally entering Gir forest, Junagadh range, chasing Asiatic lions and filming them on 25th August.  *This image is copyright of its original author As many as 40 offences of conducting illegal lion shows in Gir National Park have been registered against 134 individuals in last four years, the state forest department stated in its action taken report (ATR) submitted to the Gujarat High Court. Trial against 44 offenders in 10 cases has already begun in the trial court, the report added. The report was submitted by Jayan Patel, assistant conservator of forest, Wildlife Circle-Junagadh, in HC during the hearing of a suo motu petition over unnatural deaths in Gir sanctuary area in Saurashtra. The court has appointed advocate Hemang Shah as amicus curiae to look into the issue. During the previous hearing, he had submitted a series of suggestions to prevent unnatural deaths of lions. As per the forest department's report, the highest number of offences in these four years, 16, was registered in 2017-18. It stated that the lions are being radio-collared and forest department monitors their movement through drone camera and e-eye. However, it also stated that radio collaring is not a feasible option as it does not show the exact movement of lions and there are also issues of battery life. The report further pointed out at huge vacancy of ground staff-posts of 272 beat guards, 91 foresters and 24 RFOs are vacant. Regarding open wells, the ATR stated that a massive drive was carried out to make farmers aware of the importance of covering their wells. Meanwhile, disbursement of subsidy amount of Rs 16,000 has been expedited. At present, walls have been constructed around 37,201 wells. The work of chain-link fencing most length of the railway tracks is also on. https://ahmedabadmirror.indiatimes.com/a...849633.cms 
©Mantraraj Photography
 *This image is copyright of its original author ©KuzhaloviyamA lioness need not roar to keep the crowd in awe.  *This image is copyright of its original author Life Doesn't come with a Manual, It comes with Mom. *This image is copyright of its original author ©Bhavesh Lakhlani *This image is copyright of its original author ©Sandip Patel *This image is copyright of its original author ©Radhika Chauhan *This image is copyright of its original author ©?? *This image is copyright of its original author Source: Natureinfocus ©Manish Vaidya  *This image is copyright of its original author ©Wildlife Photography India  *This image is copyright of its original author
(10-15-2019, 12:04 AM)GuateGojira Wrote: With only two lions recorded in Central India, will be highly unreliable to estimate an average. The figure of 255 kg from 1623 is still in doubt and Jahangir, which killed many lions, clearly said that he noted that "in his entire hunting career he had not come cross such a large, magnificent, or well proportionated animal" (Divyabhanusinh, 2005), which shows that it was an exceptional specimen. The male of 222 kg (estimated at c.240 kg with its entrails) will be big but not exceptional compared with the tigers in the area or the lions in Africa. So, based in the avialable data, we can't conclude that they were larger than the tigers, and in fact about the same size than some African populations. You were saying that Asiatic lions were smaller from measuring weight. How about comparing other measurements beisdes weight? Which one is bigger cats? Don't forget African lions, barbary lions and cape lions. I heard lion is the second largest cats all the time. I always notice that male lions looks bigger than other cats in sanctuary, circus, and zoo when they are next to other cats. Why lion is considered as the second biggest cat after lion looks bigger than any other cats. They are lighter in weight, and people are making them as the second biggest? (10-18-2019, 11:38 PM)lionjaguar Wrote: You were saying that Asiatic lions were smaller from measuring weight. How about comparing other measurements beisdes weight? Which one is bigger cats? Don't forget African lions, barbary lions and cape lions. I allready explaned to you that the "length and height" measurements are important to get the size of an animal, but are problematic if you don't know the method used, which may be "between pegs" or "over curves" with its infinite forms of been taken. Captive lions look bigger because of the mane, that is very common fact in captive animals, but if you look they body sizes lions are always smaller than Bengal and Amur tigers. Lions have longer heads and adding the effect of the mane, they look impresive at the side of any cat, but is just an illusion. Lions are second to tigers because of both, body size and weight. Using only measurements "between pegs" or in "straight line", the Amur and Bengal tigers have a slight advantage in body length on average, although the biggest lions are also slightly taller. So like Dr Hunter (2015) says: "The Tiger is the world's largest cat by a small margin". Using measurements "along the curves" and specially the new method of ALPRU, the lions are of the same size or even longer, but those measurements are unreliable as do not show the true size of the animals. The best example are the Hobatere lions, which shows head-body lengths of over 240 cm, while the picture of the animals shows males of no more than 200 cm, maybe even less! So it is not just weight, is also body size. Check this old images that I have, you can see the diferences in body size, not only weight, between the largest tiger populations and all the lion populations as a hole.  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author There is some information that need to be updated, for example, I think that the lions from Southwest Africa are slightly heavier because of new weigthts published, but the measurements do not change. |
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