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Ape Strength: Myth vs Reality
Ape Strength: Myth vs Reality
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Ape Strength: Myth vs Reality
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Chimpanzees, orangutans, and gorillas have been known to exert great strength, particularly in the fields of pulling, horizontal pushing, deadlifting, gripping, and tearing motions.
Do any of you have any accounts/proven feats of strength (best sources from scientific articles) for any of these apes? I have seen many anecdotes of their strength, but I am not sure if I can trust those anecdotes. Isn't there a video of an orangutan pulling some sumo wrestlers in a tug-o-war? 
It was told on the news this morning that Harambe had been seen crushing a coconut in one hand.
How did he crush it? By smashing it with his fist or squeezing it with his hands? (The latter would be quite impressive as further insight into the gripping strength of apes would be provided.)
Wow, and with a simple tug, the female oranguatan easily pulled the man down without a single facial expression or struggle.
Instead of an orangutan half of the wrestler's weight, how about one at only 100 pounds, or less than 1/3 of the wrestler's weight? It'll be much harder for the 100-pound one but still manageable. But the orangutan used a lever-like system (standing on a horizontal platform whilst bending her upper body to pull the weight, that makes it impossible for even a few sumo wrestlers to begin dragging her.) Now if both were standing and the orangutans, both the 180-pound one shown and my speculative 100-pound one, went against him, they would most likely be pulled away unless they could somehow do a sudden and sharp tug back at the man. (06-08-2016, 02:55 AM)Polar Wrote: How did he crush it? By smashing it with his fist or squeezing it with his hands? (The latter would be quite impressive as further insight into the gripping strength of apes would be provided.) I believe it is obvious that the gorilla crushed the coconut by squeezing it in his big hand, otherwise it would have been written that he smashed the coconut. -IMO.
Although there is no studies done on a gorilla's strength, and no conceivable evidence exists of their strength, how much do you think a gorilla can pull horizontally? How many men do you think fit the strength of a gorilla?
IMO, a gorilla might pull a ton, and its strength range can probably be between 10-15 men? Olympic weightlifters and powerlifters can be quite stronger than a gorilla at certain motions (overhead press, bench press, cleans/snatches...), yet I feel a gorilla will significantly out-pull and definitely out-grip any human with extreme ease.
Well, there is a new study on one measure of strength difference in chimpanzees and humans which proved that, by looking at just the MHC (myosin heavy chain) protein compositon, chimpanzees are anywhere from 1.35 to 1.5 times stronger than humans pound-for-pound.
Who Would Win a Human-vs.-Chimp Wrestling Match? "However, human skeletal muscles differ in fiber length and protein composition, the study found. Chimp muscles contain a balanced mixed of three variants of a protein called MHC: I, IIa and IId. But human muscles are dominated by the MHC I variant. This variant enables slower twitching, or contracting, which is important for endurance and energy conservation. The researchers' computer simulations revealed that these differences in muscle characteristics increase the maximum dynamic force and power-producing capacity of chimpanzees by a factor of 1.35 compared to humans." For those who want more info on what MHC is about: Myosin
However, although the study mentione that chimpanzees had higher fast-twitch fiber percentages than humans, it didn't state that it took the fiber differences or the other molecular muscular differences into account, so the difference could be greater.
Well, I decided to make one topic too mostly from curiosity about this matter. Gorillas are often mentioned to be very strong animals. I think, that there is no doubt about it, that they are strong. But even though I like gorillas a lot myself, with time I have become more and more skeptical about certain things. Often is said, that gorilla is pound to pound in top ten what comes to strong animals if insects are counted out. But to what that claim is based really? To hypotheses, estimations etc.... but what is really proven and does it has that reputation mostly because it is so close to humans and people would like to see it as almost a "superanimal".
Personally I don´t believe, that gorilla earns to be lifted to some pedestal to be pound to pound stronger than for instance a bear if there is nothing else, than some hypotheses, estimations and hopes. On the other hand if that can be proven and there are some concrete examples of proven and truly impressive cases where gorilla has shown exceptional strength, it would be nice to know. And here when I say exceptional, I mean compared to other strong animals, not compared to some "average Joe" sitting on couch. Hopefully people who participate to this discussion (if any :) tolerate criticism and to be questioned too. For instance if someone writes, that gorillas are 20 times stronger than humans he/she can be sure to be questioned and asked to what such claim is based :) And just in case, I do absolutely love gorillas and hope to them all good, but this issue just is interesting and seems to be a difficult one to find real information. I personally am not so interested about muscle fibres etc. but about real cases and information which aren´t just hypotheses or guesses.
From my point of view, I see mostly two groups of people when it comes to the gorilla.
First group are big fans of the old-school gorilla B-movies. From the silent film era on into the 1970s, the gorilla was a popular B-movie monster who could bend steel bars or a lion's neck. True gorilla fans view the gorilla as a fierce beast with almost unnatural strength. Second group see the completely opposite animal. A mild-mannered vegetarian with absolutely no fighting ability. They wonder how the gorilla has managed not to be hunted into extinction by leopards. I see a big strong but normally peaceful ape somewhere in the middle. Though a real scientific strength test has ( ironically ) never been applied to a gorilla, I believe them to be very strong - certainly stronger than any man. Apparently leopards view them with some amount of respect or else they truly would be rare if not extinct. I doubt that a bull gorilla is as strong as a bear of similar size, but then likely not too far behind either. If there were tigers in the jungles of the Congo, gorillas would have a big problem. They were perhaps unable to expand out of their forest habitats due to lions. Not monsters; but neither are they wimps - IMO. (12-12-2018, 02:53 AM)brotherbear Wrote: From my point of view, I see mostly two groups of people when it comes to the gorilla. There are many points of views naturally. I am not interested so much about it, what comes to predation of gorillas here because that is a different thing. I made this topic to get help in finding information about, should I say brute strength. What claims can be proved and what are just random estimations from maybe only one biologist or zoologist... and then spread wildly and published even in newspapers as "proven facts". But when looking closer impossible to find anything really confirming what is said. I personally think, that gorilla is quite comparable with a same sized bear because both are robust animals. Maybe bear needs to be a little bit heavier to be comparable because of that fat layer. But basically both are robust powerhouses and I can´t say which one is stronger pound to pound with current information. About bears there is some information. Observations from wildlife and footage etc. About gorillas it is much more difficult to find good information. It would be nice to see some if someone has something to share.  (12-12-2018, 01:00 AM)Shadow Wrote: Well, I decided to make one topic too mostly from curiosity about this matter. Gorillas are often mentioned to be very strong animals. I think, that there is no doubt about it, that they are strong. But even though I like gorillas a lot myself, with time I have become more and more skeptical about certain things. Often is said, that gorilla is pound to pound in top ten what comes to strong animals if insects are counted out. But to what that claim is based really? To hypotheses, estimations etc.... but what is really proven and does it has that reputation mostly because it is so close to humans and people would like to see it as almost a "superanimal". There's no doubt that gorillas are strong, but I'm not sure whether their strength is really that comparable if compared to predatory animals such as bears, big cats, crocs, etc. (12-12-2018, 10:11 AM)johnny rex Wrote:Comparisons are of course always things, which can cause debates. Still many times people have no trouble to say how gorillas are so very strong, like they would be only strong animals on the planet and how they can do this and that. Lift enormous weights and who knows what. Still when looking closer it is very difficult or even impossible to find something to back up those claims.(12-12-2018, 01:00 AM)Shadow Wrote: Well, I decided to make one topic too mostly from curiosity about this matter. Gorillas are often mentioned to be very strong animals. I think, that there is no doubt about it, that they are strong. But even though I like gorillas a lot myself, with time I have become more and more skeptical about certain things. Often is said, that gorilla is pound to pound in top ten what comes to strong animals if insects are counted out. But to what that claim is based really? To hypotheses, estimations etc.... but what is really proven and does it has that reputation mostly because it is so close to humans and people would like to see it as almost a "superanimal". I take one example. There is one hypothesis/claim, that gorilla could lift 2000 kg. I have seen that speculation and there is no actual information, what is meant by lifting. Does it mean, that gorilla could lift it a little bit from ground and maybe move it aside with extreme effort and be exhausted after such performance. Or has that person behind this hypothesis meant, that gorilla could do that effortlessly. Now many people who don´t use any source criticism or think, seem to have imaginations about gorillas able to pick up cars and lift overhead etc. just like that (yes, I know balance problems, but what comes to assumed strength). But same time has anyone ever seen gorilla lifting anything heavy, for instance like 400-500 kg? Or something what could be seen as something impressive compared for instance to a bear. Bear is in that way a good animal to compare, that bears are known to move heavy objects in a way which often looks like to be effortless or at least surprisingly easy. And when in many myths, true or false, gorillas are told to be pound to pound one of the strongest animals, then naturally also that myth is interesting. To what such claim is based or is it based on anything really? Because gorillas are indeed interesting and impressive animals and their strength is mentioned often, it has been quite interesting to notice, that when trying to learn more about that famous strength, it is actually very difficult to find practically anything to really prove it. Or give even a hint, that they are so strong as often said. I have this feeling, that there is a lot of hype there and truth is more or less, that gorillas are pretty much in same level overall as any other animal in same weight. I hope, that someone would have reliable information and more than just some hypothesis or guesses. I do agree, as I have said, that gorillas are strong, that is not my point to try to say, that they wouldn´t be. I am only interested, that how strong really, because many claims seem to be more or less imaginative based on King Kong movies :) That can sound a little bit provocative, but this seems to be a subject, where hopes are mixed to reality many times :) Question is how much? |
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