There is a world somewhere between reality and fiction. Although ignored by many, it is very real and so are those living in it. This forum is about the natural world. Here, wild animals will be heard and respected. The forum offers a glimpse into an unknown world as well as a room with a view on the present and the future. Anyone able to speak on behalf of those living in the emerald forest and the deep blue sea is invited to join.
01-05-2019, 04:04 AM( This post was last modified: 01-05-2019, 04:24 AM by Shadow )
(01-05-2019, 03:36 AM)Polar Wrote:
(01-04-2019, 11:29 PM)Shadow Wrote: In this video is a cow, weight 1400 kg, shoulder height 194 cm.
I bet, that no tiger would drag this one anywhere, I think, that not even biggest bear there is would move this more than a meter :)
Honestly, I am 100% sure the largest bear can easily drag more than twice or thrice that weight with no sweat. There is a video on the "Bear Strength" where a polar bear was dragging a dead, bloody walrus, and that walrus appeared to be 2 to 3 times heavier than the bear.
Well, bears weighing about 600-700 kg would have own body mass helping when making sharp pulls, so combination of strength and body mass will give some advantage. But pulling a walrus on ice ice might be somewhat easier, that something else on dry land when there is more friction.
I think, that when animal weight is 1,5 tons (in kg), not even most gigantic brown bear would drag it long distances. It would require a lot of effort. If bears would sweat, we would see it with a carcass this size if that cow would be dead :) But I have to check that walrus video, that how long distance and how hard work it seems to be :) I haven´t looked so much polar bears lately.
The following 1 user Likes Shadow's post:1 user Likes Shadow's post • sanjay
(01-04-2019, 11:29 PM)Shadow Wrote: In this video is a cow, weight 1400 kg, shoulder height 194 cm.
I bet, that no tiger would drag this one anywhere, I think, that not even biggest bear there is would move this more than a meter :)
Honestly, I am 100% sure the largest bear can easily drag more than twice or thrice that weight with no sweat. There is a video on the "Bear Strength" where a polar bear was dragging a dead, bloody walrus, and that walrus appeared to be 2 to 3 times heavier than the bear.
I didn´t see video in bear strength thread, but you meant this?
Quite difficult to be sure about that walrus size, looked like to be a little bit bigger, than that bear, so maybe 500-800 kg walrus? For sure not even close to big ones weighing even 2000 kg, those giants make polar bears look pretty small :) But this video shows of course, that bear is strong, but also, that it takes some effort to kill and drag this size opponent.
The following 1 user Likes Shadow's post:1 user Likes Shadow's post • sanjay
(01-04-2019, 11:29 PM)Shadow Wrote: In this video is a cow, weight 1400 kg, shoulder height 194 cm.
I bet, that no tiger would drag this one anywhere, I think, that not even biggest bear there is would move this more than a meter :)
Honestly, I am 100% sure the largest bear can easily drag more than twice or thrice that weight with no sweat. There is a video on the "Bear Strength" where a polar bear was dragging a dead, bloody walrus, and that walrus appeared to be 2 to 3 times heavier than the bear.
I didn´t see video in bear strength thread, but you meant this?
Quite difficult to be sure about that walrus size, looked like to be a little bit bigger, than that bear, so maybe 500-800 kg walrus? For sure not even close to big ones weighing even 2000 kg, those giants make polar bears look pretty small :) But this video shows of course, that bear is strong, but also, that it takes some effort to kill and drag this size opponent.
Yes, that video. Harder to tell from a distance than up close, but the bear looks 400kg and the walrus at 800kg, still twice his weight. It is also actually really hard to drag on snow, since large amounts of weight condenses the snow and increases the coefficient of friction. The difference could make it so that the bear is dragging the walrus and an additional few pounds (or few hundred, I don't know).
Since it was dragging uphill, I think it was struggling moreso with its positioning relative to the walrus and tried to shift its weight back to gain greater leverage. If this was on flatter ground, it would be significantly easier, and to be honest, I don't think the bear would even be dragging near the max it can drag.
My estimate is from the videos I've analyzed, but a big cat should drag between 5-8 times its own weight with its own jaws before not being able to do so.
The following 1 user Likes Polar's post:1 user Likes Polar's post • Nyers
01-05-2019, 05:03 AM( This post was last modified: 01-05-2019, 05:10 AM by Pckts )
(01-05-2019, 03:26 AM)Shadow Wrote:
(01-05-2019, 03:07 AM)Pckts Wrote:
(01-05-2019, 02:33 AM)Shadow Wrote:
(01-05-2019, 01:53 AM)Pckts Wrote:
(01-05-2019, 01:43 AM)Shadow Wrote:
(01-05-2019, 01:27 AM)Pckts Wrote:
(01-05-2019, 01:21 AM)Shadow Wrote:
(01-05-2019, 01:02 AM)Pckts Wrote:
(01-02-2019, 03:15 AM)Shadow Wrote:
(12-15-2016, 06:54 AM)Polar Wrote: The following is of a tiger biting a tractor tire (weighs anywhere from 400-700 pounds) and flipping it. Not really a good representation of a big cat's strength since it is built differently, but anyway:
Video of a man showing the bite strength of a white tiger Solano. The tiger nearly bit through the bull skull completely and detached the horns only with bites:
Captive tiger flinging human mannequin like a ragdoll, with just its jaws:
Sorry to say this, but that tyre in first video.... it was bare tyre without steel wheel and not at all difficult to lift. 400 pounds already is exaggeration. 70-150 lbs might be quite close for front tyres of tractor depending about model.
Strength of animals is interesting topic, but realism is needed also. Back tyres of tractors are then different thing.
Actually tires are quite heavy, back in my strongman training days we used to flip a few different tires, our large tire which we named "junk" because it was so beat up is 900lbs, we used to flip another that was 750lbs, both larger than the Tire the tiger is flipping but still, that tire is large and could be around the 400lb mark, or close to it.
Tigers are big, they'll make large tires look smaller but I've seen enough of them to compare there usually size with that tire and I wouldn't be surprised if it's around 400lbs.
That tire was just about a meter high, you can see it when it is there with that tiger. So max. 150 lbs. Back tyres of tractors are heavier, and I have seen quite a few tractors and tyres for those. So nowhere near pf 400 lbs.
You can check weights also from some manufacturers if you don´t believe me, many sites have also information about tyre weights. But just look at tiger shoulder height and tyre, that tyre was not "heavy weight".
Tigers are 3'-4' at the shoulder and that tire is taller than the Tiger even when the Tiger has it's head raised, so it'll be taller than a meter most likely.
But it doesn't have the girth of the Tractor Tires so I agree, it's probably more along the 150-200lb range.
Yes, that tiger is not in straight line, anyway about a meter +- something means front tyre of quite normal tractor. Something people living in farms handle without any problems. I have some experience on that field too when younger No need for stongmen there even though some were quite strong too.
There is no doubt, that tiger is very strong animal. I am just curious about reality. Jim Corbett for instance gives a lot of stories... but I think, that I am not only one, who doesn´t take all what he say as most credible source. I am just reading book "Tiger! Tale of Indian tiger" by Kailash Sankhala and I noticed, that he is one of those who doesn´t take all, what for instance Corbett writes, too seriously. Hunters have bad habit to exaggerate their prey in many ways to glorify themselves as great hunters or justify killing tigers by exaggerating how much they kill people... and many other things.
I like to discuss about things in realistic level and compare what is told to it, that what can be proven. Or is there any footage or photos to give a hint, that what might be in possible limits. Stories like bear decapitating a moose with one swipe of paw are just..... well, impossible is impossible, no matter how it is told :)
It depends on what your preconceived notions are, if you come into it thinking that they can break a moose neck with a single swipe you'll probably be disappointed.
*This image is copyright of its original author
Like you, I have a tough time believing this ^^^
But stories of big cats breaking the necks of big bovines are real and IMO equally impressive.
*This image is copyright of its original author
" ... It was a very large wild male buffalo, and he was lying on his side, the head underneath his body and the horns sticking in the ground (...). It looked like the tiger had broken his neck with a single grip. The grip was such, that the heavy body also was thrown over. A tiger able to kill a buffalo of about a thousand kg (about 2200 lbs.) in such an easy way, had to have unimaginable power ... " (pp. 169).
Bergs "The Killer of Men"
But what comes to "heavy body was thrown over", I think, that something like this happens, when tiger makes attack and then forces animal to fall head first. For sure sometimes neck is broken when falling in high speed with 200 kg of big cat hanging on there. Of course sometimes tiger can cause directly that. But it is quite difficult for bovine to keep balance if predator gets a good grip.
If I recall correctly, this Tiger was notorious for breaking the necks of large bulls, usually leaving their horns jammed into the dirt. Most likely a learned technique but still requiring immense strength to do so.
*This image is copyright of its original author
Another account of a similar killing technique
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
In regards to a drag, obviously they will not be dragging a large carcass that far and the terrain will play a huge role, but they are capable and have dragged carcasses quite far.
*This image is copyright of its original author
In fact when I was in Kanha, there was a Gaur carcass that I could only smell but the guides said that Chota Munna had killed this Gaur a few days prior and dragged it to where it lays now, they said he had dragged it quite far from where the kill took place and Kanha is very hilly and some places have dense brush so I know the feat wasn't something to scoff at.
Having seen big Gaur and Cape Bulls in person I still am shocked that these cats can make those kills since they are so outsized but they do.
Yes, these animals are able to make impressive kills. That is quite much in line what come to that lion study That one giving results, that muscle fibers of lions were 3 times stronger than same fibers in us, humans. When thinking lions and tigers, weighing about 200 kg and with way stronger muscles than us, these cases seem to be in line with that what can be expected. I assume, that that lion study gives to us quite good picture about tigers too what comes to strength. Both show time to time ability to do very impressive kills.
Lions actually use a different fast twitch muscle fiber than Humans but when comparing them to one other, the big cat does have stronger fibers.
"This is the first study to investigate the contractile properties of single muscle fibres from lion and caracal. Compared with human type IIax fibres, their type IIx fibres were smaller in size, produced more specific force and had greater shortening velocities and power outputs. Therefore, their muscle is well adapted and may partly explain the physical capabilities in their running speed, jumping and strength. Additionally, this study also confirms that frozen tissue can be successfully employed to perform single fibre contractile experiments." https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3587382/
This study only uses bikers though and they'll have better developed Type 1 fibers than type 2, athletes who are involved in strength training will have stronger type 2 fibers, this is due to the fact that muscle fibers do grow and strengthen but I still doubt that someone like a Sprinter or Football player will compare with big cats.
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(01-02-2019, 03:15 AM)Shadow Wrote: Sorry to say this, but that tyre in first video.... it was bare tyre without steel wheel and not at all difficult to lift. 400 pounds already is exaggeration. 70-150 lbs might be quite close for front tyres of tractor depending about model.
Strength of animals is interesting topic, but realism is needed also. Back tyres of tractors are then different thing.
Actually tires are quite heavy, back in my strongman training days we used to flip a few different tires, our large tire which we named "junk" because it was so beat up is 900lbs, we used to flip another that was 750lbs, both larger than the Tire the tiger is flipping but still, that tire is large and could be around the 400lb mark, or close to it.
Tigers are big, they'll make large tires look smaller but I've seen enough of them to compare there usually size with that tire and I wouldn't be surprised if it's around 400lbs.
That tire was just about a meter high, you can see it when it is there with that tiger. So max. 150 lbs. Back tyres of tractors are heavier, and I have seen quite a few tractors and tyres for those. So nowhere near pf 400 lbs.
You can check weights also from some manufacturers if you don´t believe me, many sites have also information about tyre weights. But just look at tiger shoulder height and tyre, that tyre was not "heavy weight".
Tigers are 3'-4' at the shoulder and that tire is taller than the Tiger even when the Tiger has it's head raised, so it'll be taller than a meter most likely.
But it doesn't have the girth of the Tractor Tires so I agree, it's probably more along the 150-200lb range.
Yes, that tiger is not in straight line, anyway about a meter +- something means front tyre of quite normal tractor. Something people living in farms handle without any problems. I have some experience on that field too when younger No need for stongmen there even though some were quite strong too.
There is no doubt, that tiger is very strong animal. I am just curious about reality. Jim Corbett for instance gives a lot of stories... but I think, that I am not only one, who doesn´t take all what he say as most credible source. I am just reading book "Tiger! Tale of Indian tiger" by Kailash Sankhala and I noticed, that he is one of those who doesn´t take all, what for instance Corbett writes, too seriously. Hunters have bad habit to exaggerate their prey in many ways to glorify themselves as great hunters or justify killing tigers by exaggerating how much they kill people... and many other things.
I like to discuss about things in realistic level and compare what is told to it, that what can be proven. Or is there any footage or photos to give a hint, that what might be in possible limits. Stories like bear decapitating a moose with one swipe of paw are just..... well, impossible is impossible, no matter how it is told :)
It depends on what your preconceived notions are, if you come into it thinking that they can break a moose neck with a single swipe you'll probably be disappointed.
*This image is copyright of its original author
Like you, I have a tough time believing this ^^^
But stories of big cats breaking the necks of big bovines are real and IMO equally impressive.
*This image is copyright of its original author
" ... It was a very large wild male buffalo, and he was lying on his side, the head underneath his body and the horns sticking in the ground (...). It looked like the tiger had broken his neck with a single grip. The grip was such, that the heavy body also was thrown over. A tiger able to kill a buffalo of about a thousand kg (about 2200 lbs.) in such an easy way, had to have unimaginable power ... " (pp. 169).
Bergs "The Killer of Men"
But what comes to "heavy body was thrown over", I think, that something like this happens, when tiger makes attack and then forces animal to fall head first. For sure sometimes neck is broken when falling in high speed with 200 kg of big cat hanging on there. Of course sometimes tiger can cause directly that. But it is quite difficult for bovine to keep balance if predator gets a good grip.
If I recall correctly, this Tiger was notorious for breaking the necks of large bulls, usually leaving their horns jammed into the dirt. Most likely a learned technique but still requiring immense strength to do so.
*This image is copyright of its original author
Another account of a similar killing technique
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
In regards to a drag, obviously they will not be dragging a large carcass that far and the terrain will play a huge role, but they are capable and have dragged carcasses quite far.
*This image is copyright of its original author
In fact when I was in Kanha, there was a Gaur carcass that I could only smell but the guides said that Chota Munna had killed this Gaur a few days prior and dragged it to where it lays now, they said he had dragged it quite far from where the kill took place and Kanha is very hilly and some places have dense brush so I know the feat wasn't something to scoff at.
Having seen big Gaur and Cape Bulls in person I still am shocked that these cats can make those kills since they are so outsized but they do.
Yes, these animals are able to make impressive kills. That is quite much in line what come to that lion study That one giving results, that muscle fibers of lions were 3 times stronger than same fibers in us, humans. When thinking lions and tigers, weighing about 200 kg and with way stronger muscles than us, these cases seem to be in line with that what can be expected. I assume, that that lion study gives to us quite good picture about tigers too what comes to strength. Both show time to time ability to do very impressive kills.
Lions actually use a different fast twitch muscle fiber than Humans but when comparing them to one other, the big cat does have stronger fibers.
"This is the first study to investigate the contractile properties of single muscle fibres from lion and caracal. Compared with human type IIax fibres, their type IIx fibres were smaller in size, produced more specific force and had greater shortening velocities and power outputs. Therefore, their muscle is well adapted and may partly explain the physical capabilities in their running speed, jumping and strength. Additionally, this study also confirms that frozen tissue can be successfully employed to perform single fibre contractile experiments." https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3587382/
This study only uses bikers though and they'll have better developed Type 1 fibers than type 2, athletes who are involved in strength training will have stronger type 2 fibers, this is due to the fact that muscle fibers do grow and strengthen but I still doubt that someone like a Sprinter or Football player will compare with big cats.
I referred to study, which I attached earlier here in my postings. I don´t have whole document, because it isn´t public yet. But there was mentioned that 3 times stronger. It sounds quite plausible when looking at performances in different videos, that it is quite close to truth (imo).
The following 1 user Likes Shadow's post:1 user Likes Shadow's post • Pckts
(01-04-2019, 11:29 PM)Shadow Wrote: In this video is a cow, weight 1400 kg, shoulder height 194 cm.
I bet, that no tiger would drag this one anywhere, I think, that not even biggest bear there is would move this more than a meter :)
Honestly, I am 100% sure the largest bear can easily drag more than twice or thrice that weight with no sweat. There is a video on the "Bear Strength" where a polar bear was dragging a dead, bloody walrus, and that walrus appeared to be 2 to 3 times heavier than the bear.
I didn´t see video in bear strength thread, but you meant this?
Quite difficult to be sure about that walrus size, looked like to be a little bit bigger, than that bear, so maybe 500-800 kg walrus? For sure not even close to big ones weighing even 2000 kg, those giants make polar bears look pretty small :) But this video shows of course, that bear is strong, but also, that it takes some effort to kill and drag this size opponent.
Yes, that video. Harder to tell from a distance than up close, but the bear looks 400kg and the walrus at 800kg, still twice his weight. It is also actually really hard to drag on snow, since large amounts of weight condenses the snow and increases the coefficient of friction. The difference could make it so that the bear is dragging the walrus and an additional few pounds (or few hundred, I don't know).
Since it was dragging uphill, I think it was struggling moreso with its positioning relative to the walrus and tried to shift its weight back to gain greater leverage. If this was on flatter ground, it would be significantly easier, and to be honest, I don't think the bear would even be dragging near the max it can drag.
My estimate is from the videos I've analyzed, but a big cat should drag between 5-8 times its own weight with its own jaws before not being able to do so.
I believe 5-8 times, when I see it :) It is one thing to try and another to do it. I mean a tiger 200 kg dragging 1600 kg... I don´t believe before I see it. I am still waiting to see a 1000 kg in some footage. Most animals which I have seen have been maybe 500-600 kg max.
That polar bear looked to me be in quite close to size of that walrus, when on top of it. In different angle walrus looked bigger, but then again it had quite small tusks. My estimation is, that maybe 1,5 times heavier than that polar bear. Angle makes many things to look like bigger, but here we had these animals wrestling and at that moment that walrus didn´t look to be much bigger. But of course I can´t be sure.
Still that footage showed how hard work it is to fight with walrus and it didn´t give clear picture about it, that how long distance that bear might have dragged that walrus and how easily. I think, that many descriptions about bear strength too are exaggerated at least what comes to it, that how easily bear would drag something weighing 1000 kg or more. Some video footage for sure show, that a moose calf 200-300 kg is like a ragdoll with a bear and bear can "throw" a cow to ground with ease. But that doesn´t mean, that 1000 kg of dead meat is easy thing to move long distances. In every footage I have seen, when a predator is dragging something clearly bigger than itself (lions, tigers, bears etc.), it has been with effort, not just like that.
The following 1 user Likes Shadow's post:1 user Likes Shadow's post • Pckts
@Shadow That figure was being extremely conservative. Trust me tigers ARE too strong due to some reasons. I saw some posters talking about a tigress trying to drag elephant carcass i don't know if she was successful. Even an average Myanmar gaur weighs 1.5 tons. Then this specimen was said to be extremely large specimen. So it is surely more than 2 tons.
(01-02-2019, 12:34 AM)Shadow Wrote: I just have to say this too. When I read about a gaur, weighing 1700 lbs (about 770 kg) and how 13 men couldn´t move it a yard.
I have myself with a friend dragged an adult male moose on tarmac about 5 meters and it was easy. It happened when we came to a place where car had crashed with that moose. It was a big one, about 400 kg, so about 880 lbs. Of course moose fur has little friction against tarmac in good condition. But still, on flat area there were me and my friend, only 2 men and easily dragging that moose so, that no more cars crashing it.
How can we believe your friend dragged 400kgs carcass upto 5 metres long. Did you guys weighed that carcass? Probably not...
(01-05-2019, 01:00 PM)parvez Wrote: @Shadow That figure was being extremely conservative. Trust me tigers ARE too strong due to some reasons. I saw some posters talking about a tigress trying to drag elephant carcass i don't know if she was successful. Even an average Myanmar gaur weighs 1.5 tons. Then this specimen was said to be extremely large specimen. So it is surely more than 2 tons.
Well, frankly speaking when source is Corbett, I am also careful what I believe just like that. And since I haven´t seen any footage indicating such strength in tigers, I don´t buy it without some other proof also. Btw is there any official source confirming 1,5 ton average for Myanmar gaurs, just for curiosity. I don´t mind if someone is able to prove me wrong, but if you look video footage, it seems to be impossible to find anything, where tiger would drag something weighing 1 ton. That is the reason I am questioning it. For sure tiger could move a carcass weighing 1 ton, but how easily and how long distance really? And if that weight would be doubled....
Tiger is not the only animal, which seem to have old myths surrounding it. I am curious to know if there is anything to back up most amazing stories, because often most amazing stories are such, that no photos, no footage, no names or places, no clear dates. Nothing really to check. Very convenient for hunters who in past have wanted to have some glory and fame
So as I have said before, I have looked a lot of videos about many animals and trying to find out something to back up many old stories. I think, that it is mission impossible in some cases. In many videos there is strength, even quite impressive. But still also showing, that animals have limits too at some point. But maybe I am missing some footage, where tiger drags easily something big, like 1 ton animal? That should happen with relative ease at least 20 meters if tiger is able to drag 2 tons (imo).
(01-05-2019, 01:43 AM)Shadow Wrote: Yes, that tiger is not in straight line, anyway about a meter +- something means front tyre of quite normal tractor. Something people living in farms handle without any problems. I have some experience on that field too when younger No need for stongmen there even though some were quite strong too.
There is no doubt, that tiger is very strong animal. I am just curious about reality. Jim Corbett for instance gives a lot of stories... but I think, that I am not only one, who doesn´t take all what he say as most credible source. I am just reading book "Tiger! Tale of Indian tiger" by Kailash Sankhala and I noticed, that he is one of those who doesn´t take all, what for instance Corbett writes, too seriously. Hunters have bad habit to exaggerate their prey in many ways to glorify themselves as great hunters or justify killing tigers by exaggerating how much they kill people... and many other things.
I like to discuss about things in realistic level and compare what is told, to that what can be proven. Or is there any footage or photos to give a hint, that what might be in possible limits. Stories like bear decapitating a moose with one swipe of paw are just..... well, impossible is impossible, no matter how it is told :)
You haven't provided proof for your "friend" dragging carcass. Just a word.
I don't know about "bear decapitating moose". But I'm yet to see your proves for your own claims.
Also, personally I have a question: why you have a tendency to criticize about a particular animal prowess, which is sometimes ranked above your so called bears? I mean, you criticised about gorilla strength successfully. And now tiger strength.
But when, i merely criticised about Kodiak bear weights. I got " warnings" and all turned into defensive way...
I know, you're not gonna listen whatever the others say until they get bored and leave the discussion. Because, I already met you on YouTube. Have a nice day!
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(01-02-2019, 12:34 AM)Shadow Wrote: I just have to say this too. When I read about a gaur, weighing 1700 lbs (about 770 kg) and how 13 men couldn´t move it a yard.
I have myself with a friend dragged an adult male moose on tarmac about 5 meters and it was easy. It happened when we came to a place where car had crashed with that moose. It was a big one, about 400 kg, so about 880 lbs. Of course moose fur has little friction against tarmac in good condition. But still, on flat area there were me and my friend, only 2 men and easily dragging that moose so, that no more cars crashing it.
How can we believe your friend dragged 400kgs carcass upto 5 metres long. Did you guys weighed that carcass? Probably not...
That is the reason why I posted many videos showing cases, where people are dragging carcasses in the woods. Dragging animals out of woods is here quite normal because we have annual moose hunts and all carcasses have to be dragged out of woods. Sometimes there is possibility to use quad bike to help, but many times it is about manpower and biggest moose are up to 600 kg before taking out internal organs.
But was that moose I dragged with my friend 400 kg, or a little bit less or a little bit more, it will stay as a mystery. Some say it was even 500 kg When I talk about it to little children, it was no less than one ton and I dragged it alone
01-05-2019, 03:36 PM( This post was last modified: 01-05-2019, 03:36 PM by Panther )
(01-05-2019, 03:30 PM)Shadow Wrote: That is the reason why I posted many videos showing cases, where people are dragging carcasses in the woods. Dragging animals out of woods is here quite normal because we have annual moose hunts and all carcasses have to be dragged out of woods. Sometimes there is possibility to use quad bike to help, but many times it is about manpower and biggest moose are up to 600 kg before taking out internal organs.
But was that moose I dragged with my friend 400 kg, or a little bit less or a little bit more, it will stay as a mystery. Some say it was even 500 kg When I talk about it to little children, it was no less than one ton and I dragged it alone
The cases you showed doesn't proved whatever you said.
There's a difference between moose and Gaur. And there's a difference between adult male and subadult male.
How can you be sure that hunts are dragged by man power are upto 400kgs.
And you dragging one ton moose sounds more like a folktale.
01-05-2019, 03:49 PM( This post was last modified: 01-05-2019, 04:02 PM by Shadow )
(01-05-2019, 03:13 PM)Panther Wrote:
(01-05-2019, 01:43 AM)Shadow Wrote: Yes, that tiger is not in straight line, anyway about a meter +- something means front tyre of quite normal tractor. Something people living in farms handle without any problems. I have some experience on that field too when younger No need for stongmen there even though some were quite strong too.
There is no doubt, that tiger is very strong animal. I am just curious about reality. Jim Corbett for instance gives a lot of stories... but I think, that I am not only one, who doesn´t take all what he say as most credible source. I am just reading book "Tiger! Tale of Indian tiger" by Kailash Sankhala and I noticed, that he is one of those who doesn´t take all, what for instance Corbett writes, too seriously. Hunters have bad habit to exaggerate their prey in many ways to glorify themselves as great hunters or justify killing tigers by exaggerating how much they kill people... and many other things.
I like to discuss about things in realistic level and compare what is told, to that what can be proven. Or is there any footage or photos to give a hint, that what might be in possible limits. Stories like bear decapitating a moose with one swipe of paw are just..... well, impossible is impossible, no matter how it is told :)
You haven't provided proof for your "friend" dragging carcass. Just a word.
I don't know about "bear decapitating moose". But I'm yet to see your proves for your own claims.
Also, personally I have a question: why you have a tendency to criticize about a particular animal prowess, which is sometimes ranked above your so called bears? I mean, you criticised about gorilla strength successfully. And now tiger strength.
But when, i merely criticised about Kodiak bear weights. I got " warnings" and all turned into defensive way...
I know, you're not gonna listen whatever the others say until they get bored and leave the discussion. Because, I already met you on YouTube. Have a nice day!
I criticize all myths because I am curious to see, what can be found and if I am missing something. I have looked closer also to bear strength and I already found one study here on this forum, which was confirmed to be a fake from university, which was referred there. I have at this moment a query about other study about bears, which I think, that is a fake too. Reason is, that I haven´t been able to track down any scientist or other people mentioned in it. Also I haven´t found that study anywhere in internet. Usually when you can find something in only one place with people, who don´t exist, someone has just made it up. But I wait until I am 100% sure before I say more about that second case.
Kodiak weights are in other thread and everyone can read there what I criticized if interested.
What comes to animal strength, I am interested about reality. What can be proven, what is then plausible and what is just myths/fairy tales. I am not criticizing these animals, I like all of them, tigers, lions, bears etc. But for instance about this Corbett, your countryman Kailash Sankhala is one who also criticizes many old stories. Still he loves tigers more than anything, I think. I love tigers too, one of my all time favorite animals.
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(01-05-2019, 03:30 PM)Shadow Wrote: That is the reason why I posted many videos showing cases, where people are dragging carcasses in the woods. Dragging animals out of woods is here quite normal because we have annual moose hunts and all carcasses have to be dragged out of woods. Sometimes there is possibility to use quad bike to help, but many times it is about manpower and biggest moose are up to 600 kg before taking out internal organs.
But was that moose I dragged with my friend 400 kg, or a little bit less or a little bit more, it will stay as a mystery. Some say it was even 500 kg When I talk about it to little children, it was no less than one ton and I dragged it alone
The cases you showed doesn't proved whatever you said.
There's a difference between moose and Gaur. And there's a difference between adult male and subadult male.
How can you be sure that hunts are dragged by man power are upto 400kgs.
And you dragging one ton moose sounds more like a folktale.
Haha, you are the best, no doubt about it :)
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01-05-2019, 04:10 PM( This post was last modified: 01-05-2019, 04:27 PM by Panther )
(01-05-2019, 03:49 PM)Shadow Wrote: I criticize all myths because I am curious to see, what can be found and if I am missing something.
This is actually not fitting to you, after I found how you reacted in both "king of bears..." Thread and my own thread.
Quote:I have looked closer also to bear strength and I already found one study here on this forum, which was confirmed to be a fake from university, which was referred there. I have at this moment a query about other study about bears, which I think, that is a fake too.
I hope you're not referring to brotherbear's one, LOL.
Quote:Reason is, that I haven´t been able to track down any scientist or other people mentioned in it. Also I haven´t found that study anywhere in internet. Usually when you can find something in only one place with people, who don´t exist, someone has just made it up. But I wait until I am 100% sure before I say more about that second case.
Yeah right, but those books you criticising now and the ones who wrote them are most likely doesn't exist now. They must be died, doesn't mean they're wrong. Of course they're not.
Quote:Kodiak weights are in other thread and everyone can read there what I criticized if interested.
You actually turned into defensive mode along with brotherbear, etc..
Quote:What comes to animal strength, I am interested about reality. What can be proven, what is then plausible and what is just myths/fairy tales. I am not criticizing these animals, I like all of them, tigers, lions, bears etc. But for instance this Corbett, your countryman, Kailash Sankhala is one who criticizes too many old stories. Still he loves tigers more than anything, I think. I love tigers too, one of my all time favorite animals.
I don't know about "Kailash sankhala", the guy who believed lion wins against tiger 9/10 times or something like that. Which is not reliable at all.
But where did you find 770kgs weight for "13men couldn't dragged" account? I mean, just look up, here's it.
Also ln the below documentary, go to 12:56. Biologist Neil McCann mentions how the veteran tiger tracker, Peter Burn witnessed a tiger carry a 700kg Water buffalo up a steep revine! I don't think all these are "exaggerating"! https://youtu.be/P9652D2f-HM
