There is a world somewhere between reality and fiction. Although ignored by many, it is very real and so are those living in it. This forum is about the natural world. Here, wild animals will be heard and respected. The forum offers a glimpse into an unknown world as well as a room with a view on the present and the future. Anyone able to speak on behalf of those living in the emerald forest and the deep blue sea is invited to join.
Some time ago I remember having a conversation with Pckts about the possible interactions of jaguars with feral buffaloes in the Pantanal. At that time we only had records of jaguars killing buffaloes in Colombia and Brazil in ranches, but none recorded in the Pantanal.
Recently, Panthera/Onçafari biologist Joares May released a video where he showed the horn's cape of an adult water buffalo cow that was ripped off by a jaguar in a predation attempt. not only did the jaguar rip off the buffalo's horn cape, but also its own canine in the process. Imagine the strength require to pull such a feat in both bite force and neck muscle strenght.
This happened by Panthera's Fazenda Jofre Velho in Porto Jofre, northern Pantanal, where there are plentiful feral water buffaloes and where buffaloes are also used to guard cattle herds because they are much more combative towards jaguars. These are not tamed domestic animals:
I did my best translating the video on my community with English subtitles here.
also thank you very much for the mention in the post. Yes u did a pretty good job in translating the video. Also i love to see it, jaguars are such uniques animals and i was wondering these days if we had any reports of them hunting buffalo in pantanal. I was also thinking about how would they do it? I guess suffocating would be the most efficient way
Some time ago I remember having a conversation with Pckts about the possible interactions of jaguars with feral buffaloes in the Pantanal. At that time we only had records of jaguars killing buffaloes in Colombia and Brazil in ranches, but none recorded in the Pantanal.
Recently, Panthera/Onçafari biologist Joares May released a video where he showed the horn's cape of an adult water buffalo cow that was ripped off by a jaguar in a predation attempt. not only did the jaguar rip off the buffalo's horn cape, but also its own canine in the process. Imagine the strength require to pull such a feat in both bite force and neck muscle strenght.
This happened by Panthera's Fazenda Jofre Velho in Porto Jofre, northern Pantanal, where there are plentiful feral water buffaloes and where buffaloes are also used to guard cattle herds because they are much more combative towards jaguars. These are not tamed domestic animals:
I did my best translating the video on my community with English subtitles here.
Crazy, I can't imagine the struggle the Jaguar had to go through to disengage it's Canine.
That being said, I also can't image a scenario where the Jaguar would survive such an encounter with a live Buffalo. It would be far too vulnerable to being flung around with it's tooth lodged in it's horn. My guess is an accident during feeding, is there any proof of a predation or scavenging?
In the description of the YouTube video Dr. May stated that the event was a "fight" between the buffalo and the jaguar. My guess is either the buffalo cornered the jaguar and forced it to fight, or the jaguar tried to attack the buffalo and kill it with a bite to the skull, ripping the horn and canine in the process.
Not only are jaguars unnaturally strong, they are also extremely resilient. On late 2021 Kadu, until recently the largest and dominant male at Pousada Piuval in the northern Pantanal, went viral after he engaged on a gruesome fight with a rival male over mating rights. The adversary not only ripped apart the upper lip of Kadu, but also likely destroyed the upper canine where the damaged lip was under because Kadu lost it. That didn't stop Kadu from completely healing the injury and it didn't affect his survival.
He was last seen on late 2022 and it is believed to have been pushed out of the territory by newer and younger male Trovão.
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
Unfortunately that doesn’t offer up details about the actual encounter. Big cats are extremely resilient, that’s never the question just the situation of having a canine stuck in a horn that’s been broken off. I don’t see anyway of doing so unless the cat has time to
Gnaw at it.
The following 1 user Likes Pckts's post:1 user Likes Pckts's post • peter
Some time ago I remember having a conversation with Pckts about the possible interactions of jaguars with feral buffaloes in the Pantanal. At that time we only had records of jaguars killing buffaloes in Colombia and Brazil in ranches, but none recorded in the Pantanal.
Recently, Panthera/Onçafari biologist Joares May released a video where he showed the horn's cape of an adult water buffalo cow that was ripped off by a jaguar in a predation attempt. not only did the jaguar rip off the buffalo's horn cape, but also its own canine in the process. Imagine the strength require to pull such a feat in both bite force and neck muscle strenght.
This happened by Panthera's Fazenda Jofre Velho in Porto Jofre, northern Pantanal, where there are plentiful feral water buffaloes and where buffaloes are also used to guard cattle herds because they are much more combative towards jaguars. These are not tamed domestic animals:
I did my best translating the video on my community with English subtitles here.
Crazy, I can't imagine the struggle the Jaguar had to go through to disengage it's Canine.
That being said, I also can't image a scenario where the Jaguar would survive such an encounter with a live Buffalo. It would be far too vulnerable to being flung around with it's tooth lodged in it's horn. My guess is an accident during feeding, is there any proof of a predation or scavenging?
In the description of the YouTube video Dr. May stated that the event was a "fight" between the buffalo and the jaguar. My guess is either the buffalo cornered the jaguar and forced it to fight, or the jaguar tried to attack the buffalo and kill it with a bite to the skull, ripping the horn and canine in the process.
Not only are jaguars unnaturally strong, they are also extremely resilient. On late 2021 Kadu, until recently the largest and dominant male at Pousada Piuval in the northern Pantanal, went viral after he engaged on a gruesome fight with a rival male over mating rights. The adversary not only ripped apart the upper lip of Kadu, but also likely destroyed the upper canine where the damaged lip was under because Kadu lost it. That didn't stop Kadu from completely healing the injury and it didn't affect his survival.
He was last seen on late 2022 and it is believed to have been pushed out of the territory by newer and younger male Trovão.
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
Unfortunately that doesn’t offer up details about the actual encounter. Big cats are extremely resilient, that’s never the question just the situation of having a canine stuck in a horn that’s been broken off. I don’t see anyway of doing so unless the cat has time to
Gnaw at it.
I just received confirmation from Abigail Martin from the JID, she asked Dr. Hoogesteijn and she also has held the horn's cape with the jaguar canine engraved in it in person. They have it stored at the base on Fazenda Jofre Velho.
Rafael said that it was a proper fight between both animals and that the buffalo survived the attack and the horn ended up regrowing. It's likely that this was one of their free-ranging guardian buffaloes used to protect their tackle. They confirmed it was an adult cow.
Still in awe at that feat by the jaguar in strength and the buffalo in resilience.
Some time ago I remember having a conversation with Pckts about the possible interactions of jaguars with feral buffaloes in the Pantanal. At that time we only had records of jaguars killing buffaloes in Colombia and Brazil in ranches, but none recorded in the Pantanal.
Recently, Panthera/Onçafari biologist Joares May released a video where he showed the horn's cape of an adult water buffalo cow that was ripped off by a jaguar in a predation attempt. not only did the jaguar rip off the buffalo's horn cape, but also its own canine in the process. Imagine the strength require to pull such a feat in both bite force and neck muscle strenght.
This happened by Panthera's Fazenda Jofre Velho in Porto Jofre, northern Pantanal, where there are plentiful feral water buffaloes and where buffaloes are also used to guard cattle herds because they are much more combative towards jaguars. These are not tamed domestic animals:
I did my best translating the video on my community with English subtitles here.
Crazy, I can't imagine the struggle the Jaguar had to go through to disengage it's Canine.
That being said, I also can't image a scenario where the Jaguar would survive such an encounter with a live Buffalo. It would be far too vulnerable to being flung around with it's tooth lodged in it's horn. My guess is an accident during feeding, is there any proof of a predation or scavenging?
In the description of the YouTube video Dr. May stated that the event was a "fight" between the buffalo and the jaguar. My guess is either the buffalo cornered the jaguar and forced it to fight, or the jaguar tried to attack the buffalo and kill it with a bite to the skull, ripping the horn and canine in the process.
Not only are jaguars unnaturally strong, they are also extremely resilient. On late 2021 Kadu, until recently the largest and dominant male at Pousada Piuval in the northern Pantanal, went viral after he engaged on a gruesome fight with a rival male over mating rights. The adversary not only ripped apart the upper lip of Kadu, but also likely destroyed the upper canine where the damaged lip was under because Kadu lost it. That didn't stop Kadu from completely healing the injury and it didn't affect his survival.
He was last seen on late 2022 and it is believed to have been pushed out of the territory by newer and younger male Trovão.
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
Unfortunately that doesn’t offer up details about the actual encounter. Big cats are extremely resilient, that’s never the question just the situation of having a canine stuck in a horn that’s been broken off. I don’t see anyway of doing so unless the cat has time to
Gnaw at it.
I just received confirmation from Abigail Martin from the JID, she asked Dr. Hoogesteijn and she also has held the horn's cape with the jaguar canine engraved in it in person. They have it stored at the base on Fazenda Jofre Velho.
Rafael said that it was a proper fight between both animals and that the buffalo survived the attack and the horn ended up regrowing. It's likely that this was one of their free-ranging guardian buffaloes used to protect their tackle. They confirmed it was an adult cow.
Still in awe at that feat by the jaguar in strength and the buffalo in resilience.
It must have been lodged and the cow snapped it off in midst of throwing the Jaguar. Probably lucky for the jag since that’s the wrong end to be caught on against a Buffalo.
Leopards are actually shown to be no stronger than adult Human males. I was able to calculate the pulling power of a Leopard using this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tPo_xPH5gg
This Leopard pulled an adult male Blue wildebeest carcass, but struggled a great deal. While i dont know the exact weight of the carcass, i do know that weights of 240 - 250 kg are fairly average for Blue Wildebeest males, so i presumed the carcass was roughly that weight. The max weight for a Blue Wildebeest is 290 kg, but i dont believe that carcass was of a max weight for the species. However, if the carcass was 240-250 kg, the Leopard is only pulling half the actual weight, or 120 - 125 kg. The average weight of a man pulling on a Crane scale is 125 kg, shown here:
*This image is copyright of its original author
So, a Leopard male (which i would estimate to weigh about 69 kg in this case) can pull a total weight of 125 kg in real weight, or 278 lbs. In dragging a weight up a tree, the Leopard can still, in a sense, drag 125 kg up there, or nearly (the weight of the carcass + his body weight), so roughly a carcass of 56 kg, which is more than what the average Impala male weighs. Females are a little weaker.
Terrible comparison, a crane scale lift and dragging a carcass are completely different muscle requirements and movements.
If you want to even come close to comparing similar lifts you'd need to use a dummy drag which still isn't the same.
Animals are pulling dead weight limp carcasses through rough terrain not dragging weights that are on sleds through slick pavement or lifting vertically like a deadlift which is done with a crane lift.
(09-07-2023, 09:06 PM)TheBoldChamp Wrote: Leopards are actually shown to be no stronger than adult Human males. I was able to calculate the pulling power of a Leopard using this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tPo_xPH5gg
This Leopard pulled an adult male Blue wildebeest carcass, but struggled a great deal. While i dont know the exact weight of the carcass, i do know that weights of 240 - 250 kg are fairly average for Blue Wildebeest males, so i presumed the carcass was roughly that weight. The max weight for a Blue Wildebeest is 290 kg, but i dont believe that carcass was of a max weight for the species. However, if the carcass was 240-250 kg, the Leopard is only pulling half the actual weight, or 120 - 125 kg. The average weight of a man pulling on a Crane scale is 125 kg, shown here:
*This image is copyright of its original author
So, a Leopard male (which i would estimate to weigh about 69 kg in this case) can pull a total weight of 125 kg in real weight, or 278 lbs. In dragging a weight up a tree, the Leopard can still, in a sense, drag 125 kg up there, or nearly (the weight of the carcass + his body weight), so roughly a carcass of 56 kg, which is more than what the average Impala male weighs. Females are a little weaker.
When did crane scale lift become the same as a leopard lifting a corpse up into a tree?
