Amur Tigers

[Apex Titan]

@GreenGrolar 

Quote:Nice account. It seems to be similar to Sysoev's book called AMBA or the Taiga.

He did talk about two male bears killing male tigers. Some consider it to be fictional yet others consider it to be based on eyewitness.

His book was also a story but it seems to be included in the 12 kills as below:

If we deny one of the 12 cases of the bear's killing tigers, then the other killings should also be denied.

No, Sysoev's story 'AMBA' was a fictional tale for children. Look it up, this was also proven on Carnivora forum, remember? Warsaw knows this as well.  Sysoev was an author of at least five fictional books.

The Sysoev account included in those 12 cases of brown bears killing tigers, is not referring to the AMBA story, but to a different account of a large male brown bear killing a tigress.

Quote:Here it says tiger's aggression towards bears is benificial to the population of the latter, since it promotes the "culling" of the weakest individuals.

This is a very old, outdated assumption made by Kostoglod (1977) which has been debunked by numerous modern research and studies on tiger predation on bears. You need to understand that many of the old assumptions made by some researchers in the last century, have been refuted by far more recent (21st century) studies and field research.

For example, some old-time biologists previously assumed that tigers usually attack bears only when ungulate populations decline. But numerous modern scientific studies, observations and research from many modern day biologists and zoologists, clearly debunk this old assumption. Bears are regularly hunted by tigers (even habitually by some individuals) even when ungulate populations are thriving.

Bears (brown & black bears) are predominantly hunted and killed by tigers in the summer and fall (due to availability), this is the seasons when bears are at their peak weights and condition.

Note, modern day researchers like Miquelle, Seryodkin, Kerley, Goodrich, Petrunenko (and many others) etc.... have never once stated or even suggested that tigers mostly prey on "weakened" bears. Their studies and observations show the exact opposite. That says it all.

You should stop referring to old, outdated assumptions and speculations made by old researchers in the last century, its pointless, and its been debunked by modern scientific research. (1992-2022)

Quote:Here is another article which calls a 150 kg bear very large. I agree Chamlid looks huge though. Hoping that one day there will be specific weighing for him.

*This image is copyright of its original author

Yes, but remember, that article is referring to a connecting-rod bear, which is a emaciated shatun brown bear.

Chlamid was not a "connecting-rod" bear, he was a incredibly huge, healthy and fattened up brown bear who was enjoying many free protein meals by usurping the tigress's kills.

Quote:Here is one of Syseov's opinion:

*This image is copyright of its original author

I know, I've seen this source before. Sysoev's statement does imply that he likely favoured a large male brown bear over a tiger in a fight.

Quote:True tigers (like Dale and Misha etc) do hunt bears during summer and autumn as well and some prefer bears yet the general population of tigers seem to prefer ungulates.

Ungulates, particularly wild boars and deer are the primary food source for Amur tigers, however, bears are still regularly hunted in summer and fall. You need to realise that bears hibernate for 6 months in the taiga, for at least half a year, bears (in general) are not available for tigers to predate on. Especially brown bears who hibernate on the upper part of steep slopes, which makes them even more inaccessible for tigers to prey on. There's many factors you need to consider. 

Hence why in summer and fall, when bears are available to hunt, and fattening up on the pine nuts and acorns, tigers often hunt them:

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

Quote:Some tigers have learn to hunt bears yet the account of tigers hunting large brown bears twice their weight seem to be refuted by STP. To be fair, there seems to be no account of bear killing tigers for 30 years either.

I agree, the account of the tiger (Dale) killing large male brown bears twice his own weight was refuted by STP. Dale hunted and killed large female brown bears around his own size and weight (176 - 206 kg).

Quote:I am aware that Sergey Aramilev said a male Ussuri brown bear has a slight chance against a female tigress and a small male. However,

he also states that "In general, the tiger tries not to encounter only a person and a large individual brown bear. Everyone else in the forest becomes prey for him" (original Russian translation is below).

Aramilev made that statement many years ago. (2007)

His recent statements (2020-2021) strongly suggest otherwise and confirm that he heavily favours an adult male tiger in a fight against a very large male brown bear weighing 400-600 kg. So do most naturalists and experts.

Quote:

*This image is copyright of its original author

OK, this source is blatantly wrong. Its an established fact (from biologists & researchers) that tigers do attack and kill large bears, not "avoid" them. I posted the evidence. And tigers actively hunt bears in their territory all the time. So what the hell are these authors on about?

The authors of this book source seem to be clueless and are reporting misinformation.

Quote:

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Boris killed two brown bears on record, not one bear. Several reports confirm this.

Quote:Most bears killed seems to be during their active period. However, consumption doesn't necessarily mean predation either.

*This image is copyright of its original author

Yes, but the vast majority of bears eaten by tigers were killed by the latter, not scavenged. This is determined by field biologists and researchers. Otherwise bears would be randomly dropping dead at alarming rates in summer and autumn, which makes no sense.

Quote:Russian biologist M. Krechmar's opinion:

I've seen Krechmar's opinion. It was initially posted by Warsaw on Carnivora forum.

But still, majority of biologists and experts favour the tiger in a fight against a large male brown bear.

Kucherenko stated that in fights between tigers and very large brown bears, the tiger is more often the winner:

"The Amur tiger has no enemies. Only a very large brown bear can master it. In the Ussuri taiga, slaughter of these two giants is not uncommon. In some cases, bears are victorious, but more often tigers; both rarely leave the place of the bloody meeting alive, fight to the death. The vanquished is eaten."

*This image is copyright of its original author

https://www.m24.ru/articles/lekcii/05052014/42860


This was originally reported by Sergey Petrovich Kucherenko:

"A well-known Far Eastern hunting biologist, one of the best experts in predatory animals, in a fascinating way introduces readers to their way of life, habits, assesses the role of predators in nature and in relationships with humans, urges us to take care of our younger brothers."

http://maxima-library.org/mob/b/468094?format=read


From the Russian experts of the Amur tiger center

"An adult brown bear is far more massive than the Siberian tiger. It can reach 400, 500, sometimes 600 kg in weight. Tigers do not grow to this size, but they compensate for their lower weight with more developed hunting skills. In other words, a tiger knows better how and where to bite to kill it’s prey. Both predators seem to realize each other’s strength and prefer to keep armed neutrality. Conflicts happen when a hungry bear tries to take the food away from the tiger. Or if one of the opponents realizes his superiority."
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"And what if a conflict is inevitable? Specialists have collected some data: about half of the fights end up with deadly wounds for both predators. Other fights end equally with the tiger's or bear's victory."
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"Result of a brawl depends on the size and weight of animals. A large bear has more chances against a tigress or a small tiger. Large adult male tiger is likely to win against any bear."

https://www.instagram.com/p/B9WE1B0IvUq/...d1e1ddec05



Referring to fights between tigers and brown bears:

"The outcome of the struggle is often decided in favour of the tiger, but cases when the bear managed to kill the enemy are also known."

https://www.google.com/search?safe=stric...CSDeRl8k0g


American naturalist Joseph Kullmann set out to find out who is the best in the animal world. He studies all cases of one-on-one fights and based on his research, experienced Russian hunters report that in fights between tigers and brown bears, the tiger is the usual winner, and also hunts the brown bear.

"Hunters of Primorsky Krai talk about fights between tigers and brown bears. The winner is more often the tigers, who do not just fight for prey, but specifically hunt clubfoot."

*This image is copyright of its original author

https://www.eg.ru/society/15083-kto-iz-jivotnyh-silnee/

Quote:It's fair to say most of the tigers rob are female. A tigress with cubs also means more meat to steal.

*This image is copyright of its original author

Yes, the context to these cases of brown bears usurping kills from "tigers", are ALL female tigers.

Extensive scientific research (many decades) confirms that even huge male brown bears strictly avoid contesting adult male tigers, as the risk is too high for the bear. Even a huge bear is not gonna risk life and limb trying to usurp the kill of an adult male tiger, its too dangerous, the much smaller female tiger is the safer option.

Adult male tigers usually dominate kill-disputes with brown bears.

From zoologist - Bernhard Grzimek

"Apart from humans, the Amur tiger has no enemies that could pose a threat to it. At the very most, a few unsupervised young animals might fall victim to the brown bear. When adult tigers encounter bears, surprisingly, Matjushkyn reported, the bear almost always surrenders its meal to the tiger."..

"Before he told me that, I would have bet my money on the bear, but he followed tiger tracks on ski's for several winters, and he should know."

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=c7gR...4Q6AEIKzAA

Matyuskin personally told this to zoologist, Grzimek. 

Here's another source stating that the Brown bear is known to give up its kill to a tiger, rather than fight:

*This image is copyright of its original author

https://archive.org/details/beachamsinte...Species%2C Reply