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Amur Tigers
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 (03-23-2015, 01:34 AM)'tigerluver' Wrote: The STP male Amurs average 193 cm in body length, while Sunquist and Sunquist has Chitwan published as 195 cm on average for males. It'd be a bit higher if we were to add the two other 270+ kg males I found about. The longest body length of modern record is of an Amur male at 208 cm (101 cm tail, 309 cm total, 179 kg mass) I believe. I think Dhasa of Nagarhole measured 311 cm total but his body length was 204 cm. So, overall I'd say they're equal in length with regard to statistical significance. Not sure about height, but I'd favor the modern Amur to be taller as they seem to be evolving for cursoriality at this point. Ok, so they are equal in lenght while amurs are taller :-) tall and long amur tiger: http://www.milanfoto.eu/displayimage.php...play_media http://www.milanfoto.eu/displayimage.php...play_media 
"n literature, Pocock (1939) says that the average standing height for male Bengal tigers is of 91 cm, and seldom exceeds this, but these were captive specimens and he doesn’t give any range or sample number. Mazák (1983) give an average standing height of 93.3 cm (n=5), with a maximum of 99 cm and a minimum of 89 cm, again from captive specimens. Finally, Brander (1923) give an average figure of 99 cm (n=42) for males measured “between pegs”, and a maximum of 110 cm.The official figure for the male Amur tiger, in shoulder height, is of 95 cm, based in 11 specimens. I was able to found only 10 specimens with shoulder height, so that’s why I only calculate a figure of 93 cm. "
If you go off these, Technically the Bengal is taller. But its a matter of cms and will depend on tiger to tiger I suspect. Nice tiger you posted. Looks to big big boy (03-23-2015, 03:19 AM)'Pckts' Wrote: "n literature, Pocock (1939) says that the average standing height for male Bengal tigers is of 91 cm, and seldom exceeds this, but these were captive specimens and he doesn’t give any range or sample number. Mazák (1983) give an average standing height of 93.3 cm (n=5), with a maximum of 99 cm and a minimum of 89 cm, again from captive specimens. Finally, Brander (1923) give an average figure of 99 cm (n=42) for males measured “between pegs”, and a maximum of 110 cm.The official figure for the male Amur tiger, in shoulder height, is of 95 cm, based in 11 specimens. I was able to found only 10 specimens with shoulder height, so that’s why I only calculate a figure of 93 cm. " Ok, bengal tigers are taller. And they should be also longer, I think...otherwise they would be more square-like OMG ...btw I have been misinformed by Peter, who wrote this (in extinction thread) "I can't agree with your verdict on Mazak's assessment regarding Amur tigers. Mazak based his conclusions on the data he had. When his book was published, there was no doubt that Amur tigers, at the level of averages, topped most lists by a margin. They still do. Amur tigers are longer and taller than all other big cats. This conclusion is true for both captive and wild Amur tigers. Same for females, I think." or this: "Surely, there is no doubt that the Amur tigers are the longest wild cats at this day, although the Bengal tigers are definitely the heaviest ones (more robust in the girth departments). " :-)
I just go off of the verified measurements.
The craziest thing is how close they really are in measurements yet the bengal is so much heavier now a days. Also crazy how they can live two completely different life styles yet be pretty much the same measurements.  (03-23-2015, 03:28 AM)'Amnon242' Wrote:(03-23-2015, 03:19 AM)'Pckts' Wrote: "n literature, Pocock (1939) says that the average standing height for male Bengal tigers is of 91 cm, and seldom exceeds this, but these were captive specimens and he doesn’t give any range or sample number. Mazák (1983) give an average standing height of 93.3 cm (n=5), with a maximum of 99 cm and a minimum of 89 cm, again from captive specimens. Finally, Brander (1923) give an average figure of 99 cm (n=42) for males measured “between pegs”, and a maximum of 110 cm.The official figure for the male Amur tiger, in shoulder height, is of 95 cm, based in 11 specimens. I was able to found only 10 specimens with shoulder height, so that’s why I only calculate a figure of 93 cm. " I would appreciate a bit more regarding the alleged 'misinformation' in order to be able to respond.  (03-23-2015, 12:15 AM)'Amnon242' Wrote: Amurs are tallest and longest - in this sense they are really the largest felids on earth. Bengals are more muscular and therefore heavier.These are the topics that I like to discuss! [img]images/smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] Amnon, to be sincere, measurements show that both Bengal and Amur tigers are practically of the same size, I will explain it but I will focus in males: Male Amur tiger had an average head-body length of 195 cm (after 1992, n=13) and 194 cm (before 1970, n=4), and the shoulder height is of 95 cm (after 1992, n=11) and 93 cm (before 1970, n=4). Take in count that the measurements after 1992 came from the Siberian Tiger Project while those before 1970 came from the very few more-or-less reliable figures in literature. It is interesting to see that the average figures are about the same and the maximum figures seems to be the same case (208 cm [modern] against 210 cm [old]), with just one freak specimen reported at 330 cm between pegs (about 220 cm head-body). The only thing that changed was the chest girth with averages of 119 cm (after 1992, n=13) and 139 cm (before 1970, n=3) respectively. Sadly, these are the only reliable figures, all other reports of lengths of 290 cm in head-body and girths of 200 cm are from skins or exaggerations. Male Bengal tigers had an average head-body length of c.190 cm (before 1960, from Cooch Behar, Brander and others, n= over 100!) and 195 cm (after 1970, n=5). We could say that modern tigers are "longer" but in fact, the sample is too small to get an accurate conclusion (just like in the case of the Amur ones). However, a rouge comparison suggest that there is no big difference, and although "5 cm" seems something in the paper, in a live animals this difference means practically nothing. On the shoulder heights, the few records from the wild show that they had an average height of c.100 cm, all from hunting records, but taken between pegs. No modern height figures are available. On the chest girths, only two measurements are available (127 and 140 cm, both from Nepal), and both match the old records, so I think is fair to suggest that they have not changed at all. Now, if we make comparisons, figures like 195, 194 and 190 cm are, in lato sensu, the same! It is possible that with a higher sample, the Amur tigers will measure the same than the larger samples of Bengals, just like in the case of the modern Bengal records. It is fair to say that they are of the same body length, but in a stricto sensu, Amur tigers seems "longer". Take in count that in both samples (Amur and Bengal) are probably included young or barely "over 3 years old" specimens, so the figures of full grow males over 4 years old "only" could be higher, in both cases. On the shoulder height department, there is, again, not a great difference. In fact, we most remember that the "shoulder height" that we are using from the Siberian Tiger Project is taken from the shoulder to the heal and in some cases, the leg was not straight but shrunken, like is show in an old documentary about Amur tigers (I will post the name latter, I don't have it right now). So, I guess that if those measurements were taken in the same way that the hunted Bengal tigers (straight line, between pegs), the results should be the same or more close to. At the end, the statement of Sunquist & Sunquist (2002) should stand: "Tigers stand taller at the shoulders than at the rear, with Bengal and Siberian tigers measuring about a meter high at the shoulders". For more details, you can check these topics: http://wildfact.com/forum/topic-brander-...he-records http://wildfact.com/forum/topic-who-is-t...the-tigers However, if you want a direct, simply or "popular" explanation, I can "conclude" that both varieties (or "subspecies") measure about the same, which will be more than 190 cm in head body and about 100 cm in shoulder height, in males. Chest girths and weights are the only thing where these specimens really differ.
Here is the documentary about the Amur tigers that I mentioned before: In the shadow of the Siberian tiger.
Part 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LcWyyyms07w Part 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yn7RtblNPm0 Part 3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzxR7N8gSio Part 4: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOCav2Rg3Mg Part 5: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGT3-GC416U Check part 2 (minute 2:20), there is were the tigress is measured. Enjoy it. [img]images/smilies/smile.gif[/img] 
Usually the Tigers mark wood visual and odorous marks while standing on the ground, including on its hind legs. On the trail of prints of paws and claws on wood predators the researchers judged their approximate size and take it into account in determining the individual specimens.Our Tiger has proved tricky. He was raised in the marking of the tree and leave claw marks much higher growth. The "impression" that there is an unusually large animal. The same opinion, and may have had his cousins, examining marking tree.However, things turned out differently, our adult male Tiger, learned to label the tree in its own way, to throw off others. This line of conduct revealed through trail cameras mounted on the traces of the cunning beast.
Sanjay, great vid.
Bamera did the same thing when he was rulling. Big cats know that size usually determines victory, smart of them to portray bigger and stronger to ward off competitors.
I would love to share some great news about Amur tigress Ilona. I got some precious knowledge about her from Amur far east.
Ilona is one of the orphaned tigers released last year! Ilona is a GREAT hunter, killing many wolves . The Tigress, released into the wild by Russian President Vladimir Putin. The video was filmed on a video camera automatic Hinganskogo reserve 15 November. She is a bit of a curious in front of the lens, and then starred in close-up. As you can see, she is in good physical shape and had a healthy curiosity, according to the official site of the Hinganskogo reserve. Now below is source that tigress prey on wolf and her behavior related to camera is interesting, read it  *This image is copyright of its original author Scientists are watching carefully the nature reserve Hinganskogo and tigress Ilona, striped cat recently released from the rehabilitation center. To learn how to live in the taiga, Ilona specialists observe it by using cameratrap. The Tigers often posing before cameras, this time something went wrong. After a hearty dinner, cat blew off from the tree one of the cameras. Ilona threw the remains of camera on snowmobile trail next to the academic hospital. A memory card with photos of Tigress scientists haven't been found. For the past three weeks, she ate 5 boars and 1 wolf. Completely eaten was only one pig and a wolf. Ilona eat up no more than one third. Oddly, adult wild boars, are not afraid of "Queen of the forest". None of the herd after the attacks the Tigresses has resigned from his plot, told in the reserve. The source : http://www.dv.kp.ru/online/news/1951313/ Credit to: Amur far east
Tiger "Luk" - 212 kg:
I have noted that, with time, the old articles from the page of The Amur Tiger Programme (T.A.T.P.) are been erased. The old reports, like that of Banzai the tiger are lost and I afraid that, in a few months, the same will happen with the report of the 212 kg male tiger Luk (A.K.A. Luke), the heaviest Amur tiger recorded in modern scientific literature. For that reason, I decided to create a screen shoot, with link included, in order to not loose the original source of the article. Here it is:  *This image is copyright of its original author Source (original): http://programmes.putin.kremlin.ru/en/tiger/news/24787 Sadly, at this day, I have not found any email in the page or any other part, in order to obtain more data, like body size and ages, of the tigers captured by T.A.T.P. If someone could found it, I will be able to contact them. Greetings to all.
The new tables about the size of the Amur tiger are now available.
It have new adds on them, see the attached document and visit this link: http://wildfact.com/forum/topic-who-is-t...rs?page=14 Enjoy the reading. [img]images/smilies/smile.gif[/img]
A wonderful Image of Amur tiger Credit to Центр "Амурский тигр"
 *This image is copyright of its original author |
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